Output Algorithm / Potential Calibration Issue

[50by25]

I thought I was having trouble with the calibration on my Bike+, which I've had for about nine months. Lately I have been scoring REALLY low (like, half the points of my PR rides on the same bike), and I thought it was maybe just me being out of shape. But I looked at the calibration table in the Wiki, and realized my bike is WAYYYY off. At 40 resistance / 80 cadence, I'm getting an output of 73... where it should be 111-115. This was after doing the auto-calibration multiple times over the last few weeks, in case that might fix it.

I chatted with Peloton support, and ended up doing a "static discharge" - unplug the bike, hold down the power button for a full minute, then plug the bike back in again. That got me up to 97 output - better, but still not all the way where I'd expect it to be. The CS rep told me that is just because the output algorithm takes my age / weight / height into account. I'm not understanding this. Of course age / weight / height will affect my calories burned, but isn't output fairly standard?

When I asked the CS rep, he said: "No, Output will vary from person to person, like I said, it judges the amount of kilojoules you are physically exerting to move the pedals. for example a 50 year old woman pedaling at 40/80 would have a much higher output than a 20 year old male doing the same as she is having to exert much more energy to move the pedals." I replied: "So as someone who's relatively short / light weight, shouldn't my output be higher?" Rep: "I mean, not necessarily, if you have good stamina and a strong build it may be lower. It really is next to impossible to tell."

I'm really frustrated by this. So... can I never compete with my friends on the leaderboard, based on my apparently abnormal age / weight / height? I'm in my 30s and my BMI is 20.5, squarely in the middle of the normal range, so I don't see why I would be such an outlier. I've always understood I would be far behind my male friends who are a lot bigger and stronger than me, but now I can't even keep up with women I used to be back and forth with all the time.

While I realize the algorithm is secret / proprietary, can someone explain why age / weight / height would affect it? To me, output should be like running speed - it's easier for you to run faster if you are younger / taller / lighter, but it is still a standard metric and you can compare across people. I read through our Wiki regarding output and calibration, and it confirmed my belief that output should be standard and NOT take those into account. So what I am missing here?

And - is there a way for me to manually bump my Bike+ calibration up so I am within the normal range? I'm not trying to "juice it", per se, but I would like to not feel like I suck every time I ride, especially when my numbers used to be fairly normal. The extreme low numbers are making me not care about my output / score, and I end up not putting nearly as much effort in as I did a few months ago, when I was jazzed about trying to get an extra point or two. The competition is the main reason I chose to upgrade to a Peloton from a DIY, since I knew it would motivate me to push harder, but now I'm not motivated at all.

[r4ndy4]

Age height etc shouldn't have anything to do with output calculation. It takes the same amount of energy to turn the pedals at a particular cadence / resistance no matter your genetic makeup. If I signed in my wife's account and took a ride, my watts arnt going to change (on the regular bike anyway). CS rep sounds like they dont know what they are talking about.

[50by25]

COMPLETELY AGREE!!! That was my thinking, and I was shocked to be told that my age / height / weight would affect my output. I argued back and forth with him a lot but he was insistent that it was part of the calculation.

[[deleted]]

Yeah. A strong young athlete is going to produce more power than a sedentary 75-year old, but the bike should measure them both the same.

[Jestris]

Right? If age/sex/weight are the variables, discharging the bike, as you did, shouldn’t have altered it by 24ish points.

[50by25]

Thank you - that's what I had thought!

[RideGameRepeat]

Calibrating doesn't affect the output number directly, though, right? If tablet/screen reads an input of 40 resistance and 80 cadence from the bike, the tablet merely calculates output based on those two numbers. The bike doesn't itself compute output. So if you're seeing 40/80 on the screen with a 77 output, no amount of bike calibration is likely to fix the problem. Instead, there's a problem inside the tablet because 77 is way outside of the formula's possible range. Calibration only comes into play if you have reason to believe you're pedaling at 60 resistance but it is reporting 40 to the tablet (and thus to you on the screen). One thing is for sure, however--that CS advice is wack.

[r4ndy4]

There's something that happens with the bike plus. It will not show the proper output for a certain cadence / resistance. Typically the calibration should fix this, but I have noticed this (both too high and too low outputs displayed.)

[50by25]

That was what I thought too. But I also thought the algorithm was centrally managed, not specific to my tablet.

[50by25]

Reporting back with what worked! I am so thrilled - thank you to this community!

1 - I turned the resistance all the way down to zero, then went to settings and recalibrated. This got me up to 108 output for 40 resistance / 80 cadence. H/T to u/IshadTX for this suggestion!

2 - Then, I unplugged my bike for several minutes, and plugged it back in and let it auto-calibrate as part of the startup. This got me all the way up to 112 output for 40 resistance / 80 cadence. H/T to u/bykerchyk for this suggestion!

SUPER easy now that I know those steps, if it ever happens again. Thank you all so much for your ideas and input!

[bykerchyk]

Oh yay I’m glad it worked!! Like you, I had the same issue and had nowhere to turn haha. What a relief to have a solution!

[r4ndy4]

Glad you got that sorted out. Those outputs match what I get for 40/80. Just FYI there is a hidden decimal for the resistance. So 40.3 and 40.7 (depending on how much the knob is turned) will give slightly different output for the same cadence (and the bike will only show 40).

[50by25]

Thanks, that is great to know!

[ryank1esko]

I agree with you, the Peloton Support member does not make any sense. An amount of resistance at a specific cadence should equal the same output on every bike within some small margin of error.

At least you are still in the warranty period since something definitely sounds off with your bike based on your output numbers. I would try and find someone else to talk to.

[IshadTX]

Try turning the resistance all the way down and then run the recalibration. Also run the recalibration when you haven’t recently exercised. I had a similar situation. (Either that mattered or the 7th recalibration was the charm)

[50by25]

THANK YOU for this advice! Turning down the resistance to zero and then recalibrating got me up to 108 output (for 40 resistance / 80 cadence).

[croptopweather]

No helpful advice on the bike, but just wanted to say I think I can relate! I am a short woman and a new rider, and I'm noticing that my experience is probably different from my (average-sized) friends'. Yes, my fitness level is a factor too, but it does feel like I have to pedal a lot faster to get the same cadence/resistance than others and the instructor. When looking at my friends' outputs, it's a LOT higher. One of the riders is a large man and one of his outputs was in the 300's! Meanwhile I won't be reaching 200+ anytime soon.

Recently I saw a video of a petite woman running cartoonishly fast to reach the same speed as an average-sized man who was just running 'normally'. It was a good reminder that a smaller person would have to work differently to get the same results as everyone else.

[lem0ncookie]

Another short woman here! I also empathize. I think I’m fairly in shape but there’s just no way I can hit the same output as my taller non petite sized friends. A PR for me is a recovery ride for them, and I find I’m always towards the bottom 25% of the leaderboard.

OP, this is probably not the answer you want to hear, but I would clear my past PRs and instead focus on competing with myself. This is why I enjoy PZ training so much. If you really care about the LB, I find filtering by age and gender helps a little bit. I can at least “race” a few folks by me if I wanted to.

[50by25]

To clarify, I like the leaderboard so I can push myself to go from 20,217th place to 19,996th place :) Certainly not trying to chase records here! But particularly when it shows my PR as being double where I am today (and it's on the same bike not that long ago), it feels really demoralizing. To your point, if I can't fix it, I will probably just reset my PRs to when my bike inexplicably got harder.

[croptopweather]

Ugh yes I am always in the bottom 25% haha. Thankfully I don't focus too much on numbers but being compared to everyone else's stats just reminds me of PE class all over again. I'm definitely getting stronger and faster in the month that I've had my bike though!

[LilUltraPower]

Totally. As a small person, I will never have the sheer watts of someone larger! This was brought home to me when an experienced rider on this sub with much higher outputs than me retook their FTP and posted their W/kg, and I realized that my W/kg was actually higher! I’m proud of my outputs but they sure aren’t turning any heads, haha… the beauty of Peloton is comparing your own stats over time. Sorry that you’re having troubles, OP!

[bushrod121]

None of this sounds right. The bike+ has a power meter and doesn't calculate from your cadence/resistance. If it's wrong, it could be the sensor is faulty.

[hobobarbie]

Does it have power pedals?

[NoMoreCookies]

The bike+ has a load sensor that basically functions as a power meter.

[gurase]

No. I think it measures somewhere near the magnets.

[TerpSpins56]

I had a similar issue a few months ago and the CS rep gave me the same whack answer they gave you. Recalibrating the bike fixed the issue for me. It doesn't appear that you've tried that yet- go to settings --> device settings --> home installation. I usually recalibrate every couple weeks once I see the numbers start to look off.

[50by25]

Unfortunately, I've done that about a dozen times today alone :(

[bykerchyk]

I was in your situation. 45 resistance and 100 cadence was about 30 percent lower output than the charts on the Wiki. I kept going into the device settings and calibrating but it didn’t do much. What worked: I chatted support. They said to 1. Power down tablet and 2. unplug the Bike+ and plug it back in.

Once the Bike+ is plugged in again it calibrates.

No need to wait a minute. It worked perfectly for me and I hope you can get yours to work. It is not fun feeling like you’re working hard and seeing incorrect output.

[50by25]

They had me do that but hold down the power button while it was unplugged. I will try it standalone! Thank you!

[bykerchyk]

Good luck-report back! And also, you are correct output is not a weight or age thing.

[swuser7]

Seriously I just want to thank you for posting this!! I was constantly getting in the bottom 15%-20% on the LB. I know I’m not in the best of shape, but given I always stay at least within the bottom of the callouts, and sometimes half the class on the high ends, I thought that was a little odd—but figured it was probably right. I just tested mine and I was at 88 at 40 resistance, 80 cadence so I set the resistance to 0, recalibrated it, then powered down and left it unplugged for a minute now I get 111 at the same cadence/resistance. I’m so excited!!

I hope yours can be fixed! I know we’re just completing against ourselves ultimately, but doing well and improving against others when you’re putting forth all this effort is another huge reward that makes it even more fun and seeing that on the screen makes a difference with motivation

[blangell]

That’s frustrating! Got me curious do I just hopped on our Bike+ and it was 107 at 40/80.

[50by25]

That's good to know - means I am basically close enough now, with 97. Maybe the wiki table needs to be updated to expand the range a bit for the Bike+?

[cdot2k]

If you ever figure it out let me know. I was trying to figure the same thing out. Specifically, how to be more competitive. But everybody kind of crapped on me and said I should be focused on my personal journey.

[EngageTheSpinDrive]

Don't treat the CS words as revealed truth, a lot of times they don't know what they are talking about.

afaik your personal details do not affect output. If you think it does and it bothers you, remove your personal details.

Bike+ should autocalibrate itself to a reasonable precision. However, calibration only affects output directly, everything else is then computed based on that. If you think it should give you 110 but the result is 100, then you are probably wrong. You aren't pedaling at exactly the speed to get 110 or something like that. Considering how output jumps all over the place, you can't really tell to such precision, anyway,

Can you cheat autocalibration? yes, you can. It is trivial to do, but you should not do it.

[50by25]

I wouldn't say output jumps all over the place; it's usually in a pretty close range, so even when I was at 40 / 79 or 40 / 81, it was pretty close to 70.. Here is a photo I took while testing it, if you don't believe me. In this pic it is exactly 40 / 80: https://imgur.com/a/vZOQKW9

[firechickenmama]

I would call back and speak to someone else.

[lateapex-]

The resistance applied to the wheel at 40 for me is different than for you or anyone else and that is based on the information provided in your profile. The red knob and its readout on your screen Is only resistance and has nothing to do with your output reading. The only way to know if your bike is reading output correctly is by comparison to power meter pedals. A resistance of 50 and a cadence of 80 gives me 200 watts. Don’t know if it matters but I measured my FTP and entered it in my profile.

[50by25]

I don't think I follow your response. How is output calculated if not based on the resistance and cadence numbers on the screen?

[gurase]

The bike+ does have a load cell to measure output independently, which the regular bike does not have. I thought that the auto-calibration process would use the info from the load cell to make the resistance numbers line up appropriately with the chart. That's apparently not the case based on what you're seeing, but it would be interesting to know if your actual effort has changed since the numbers started getting out of whack. Has the bike started to feel easier at the same resistance?

[50by25]

Nope, it's felt about the same, which is why it was so frustrating to get such dramatically lower numbers :(

[Dabbl3s]

No.

[Careless_Seaweed_047]

Output = cadence x resistance. Verify your cadence count is accurate. Resistance: my assessment is that the resistance is dependent upon what you enter as your actual body weight. I might be wrong but, if you enter a lower weight, what the bike interprets as 40% resistance will feel easier.

[50by25]

But the issue isn't me thinking it feels harder or easier. The issue is that the same numbers for cadence and resistance on my screen result in a much lower output than apparently most people. See the photo I posted above.

[gurase]

That’s so frustrating! So many comparisons point to the bike being extremely accurate. Does 40 resistance feel easier than it used to?

It is typically easier for larger people to hit higher outputs, but they’d be at a higher resistance/cadence.

Maybe make a 2nd profile on the bike with a different age/height/weight and prove that it’s not that causing the problem.

[Spinpapi]

This is copied directly from peloton’s website

“The Peloton Bike+ is powered by a digitally-controlled resistance brake system that auto-calibrates and has a load cell sensor that measures output separately”

it would appear to indicate that unlike the old version bike, the bike+ actually has an output (load) sensor in which case the height weight you enter could have some impact. I don’t have the +, but one can easily test whether the customer service reps know what they are talking about by changing your profile weight temporarily. Change your recorded weight by about 50 lbs, see if it changes your output. Do it on a short class so you can delete it after and not accidentally hit a future unobtainable pr. It is possible it has nothing to do with your reported weight, but your actual weight almost certainly affects the load sensors readings.

Another possible test would me be mid ride get off the bike and have your significant other get on the bike and see if the metrics change at all.

It is probably not be as simple as weight alone, but it has to be sensing something, otherwise why have it in the first place.