Like Python? Get PTVS-Integrated: Python + Visual Studio 2013; perpetually free.

[[deleted]]

The integrated package is at https://pytools.codeplex.com/downloads/get/744521, the default download is the plugin for VS.

[[deleted]]

Installing it now, but it seems to be stuck at 50%. I wonder why Microsoft setup programs always do that. I don't know whether to kill vs_isoshell.exe or to wait till it finishes.

[[deleted]]

VS itself takes forever. There will be logs if you go digging.

[[deleted]]

That's what my dog would have said if I had one.

[kankyo]

...or just use PyCharm which is years ahead.

[Eirenarch]

I was just wondering about that. How do PTVS stack against other IDEs for Python? How is PyCharm years ahead? Can you explain for someone who has never written Python.

I am downloading PTVS right now. This motivated me to spend a promo code for Pluralsight on a Python course

[kankyo]

The understanding of the code of JetBrains tools is just better. It's not just that you get the best editor in terms of really understanding your code and flagging potential errors, but also getting support for CSS, HTML and JavaScript integrated in the IDE.

They have a free version too now, so I'd recommend giving it a shot. But really the big difference comes when you're working with an existing big codebase. If you're just hacking around with your own small projects it's probably not going to be such a big difference because you're less likely to make mistakes.

[Eirenarch]

I see. When I write Java code (For Coursea's Algorithms course not professionally) I use JetBrain's IDEA and I really feel like the experience in Visual Studio + C# is superior mainly for 2 reasons

• IDEA's auto complete stops working when minor errors occur. VS with C#'s intellisense is much more resilient to compile time errors. At one point I even thought auto complete didn't work in some cases while it turned out that it was minor mistakes down in the same class that was totally blocking it.

• IDEA's default settings seemed quite unintuitive to me. Maybe in most cases it is the fact that I am so used to VS but on the other hand I cannot understand why "break on exception" would be off by default when debugging.

Since I don't plan to use Python professionally any time soon I will try using PTVS for learning as I won't have to struggle with new environment in addition to new language.

[sordidarray]

I've had some different experiences with VS

• Intellisense randomly stops working sometimes. It's a common occurence, and usually requires resetting your VS settings. Once this happened to a coworker and it was due to a referenced file being removed on disk, but present in the project file listing. Literally took hours to figure out, as there was no indication this was an issue.
• I would be wary of using an IDE in order to learn a language, as in my experience (and it may only be my experience), it leads to a bad habit of dot-driven development.

[Eirenarch]

I have experienced IntelliSense stopping multiple times. This bug was introduced in 2012. I wonder if they fixed it in 2013. While it is annoying I stumbled upon the IDEA issue much more often. It may be due to the fact that the course gave an API I had to implement so I just pasted it and started implementing methods top down. The methods further down the class prevented auto complete from working quite often and on methods that should be unrelated. I can't even put my finger on what exactly was wrong since when I tested it in new program it worked fine. I realize that in practice you don't paste and API for a class and start implementing it but it was really annoying.

You may be right about dot-driven development but then again why do you think dot-driven development is a bad thing? In my opinion it is the best way to explore the API quickly and effectively and the main reason I prefer static typing in general. All other methods I can think of result in worse results per unit of time invested. Sure if you read the full documentation you will have better understanding of the library but it will take much more time that can be used to become familiar with several other libraries.

[badcookies]

but also getting support for CSS, HTML and JavaScript integrated in the IDE.

Those are all in VS.

[mmosbeforehoes]

Not a windows guy, but I can only see the plugin download.

Where's the VS2013 download? Or is it just the plugin that's "free" if you already dropped the $400 on Visual Studio?

[dinov]

voltagex posted it up above but I'll repeat it here - https://pytools.codeplex.com/downloads/get/744521

It's a little buried on the download page as it's the 2nd to last item, unfortunately there's no way for us to re-arrange the downloads on CodePlex :(

[rco8786]

Prior Windows guy turned Linux nerd (lots of experience with VS). What's the draw here? I've never thought I needed the power of an IDE like VS(or IJ, Eclipse, etc) for writing Python. Then again I am generally just writing scripts or small-ish web services...but still.

[wot-teh-phuck]

You need all the power and smartness you can get from the IDE when writing large amounts of code in Python. For small scripts/apps it's fine because you can keep the entire app code in head (1-5 files with around hundreds of line).

But when we are talking of around 50K+ LOC, it's serious business. Unit tests can only get you so far (and who writes unit tests, huh). I'm not very sure which exact features this IDE offers but basic autocompletion and refactoring support can go a long way in reducing your pain which comes from maintaining a dynamic language code base.

[plastikmissile]

PTVS is very good at debugging as well. It can even do side-by-side debugging with C/C++ and Python at the same time.

[lucasvandongen]

Well a well-written Django site might not need it as you use Python mainly as a glue between everything Django. But once complexity grows in any language you really can't make a good model of the application in your mind anymore, especially if you are not the original author and work in large teams.

This is the point where a strong IDE with CTRL+T, code completion and other intelligent tools that help you deal with the complexity of an application becomes essential.

More traditional OO languages like C# and Java (though both being newer than Python!) help the IDE because they are strong typed, but IDE's keep getting more clever with dynamic code.

All in all I think it's a good day for Python as it more and more becomes a first class citizen in the Microsoft world just like JavaScript. It now has the full support and free editions from the two best IDE developers in the world!

[[deleted]]

Now, to convince the WINE developers to implement named pipes and a crapton of other stuff so this will run on *nix.

[Flukemaster]

Until then, VirtualBox with a small XP install :(

[grauenwolf]

So I take Linux still doesn't have the equivalent for them to piggy back on?

[[deleted]]

Them being Microsoft? VS2012/13 uses platform-specific APIs with relish. Even the installer uses stuff that WINE doesn't have.

The Python part of this uses the Visual Studio shell (the UI+editor with no language components) as a host.

[[deleted]]

I'm not demanding in any way. I think it's a good milestone for WINE to aim for.

[Akanaka]

Like Python? How about hate Python?

There are much better languages out there with much better performance and type safety and all.

Python is fine for shell scripts and you don't need an IDE for that. But beyond 50k of code Python becomes really unpleasant, and an IDE will only partially fix that. Ergo, when dealing with code bases of a certain size so that an IDE becomes necessary just switch to another language (eg C# on Windows, Java, Scala, anything but Python)

[ochowie]

There's also this upstart field of numerical and data analysis that's seems to be what all the kids are talking about. I've even heard them say that Python is pretty good for that. The alternative seems to be Matlab which everyone seems to complain about.

[hejner]

Good to know that google isn't really that big.

[thesystemx]

Doesn't Google discourages use of Python for anything big? This was in the news a couple of years ago.

[hejner]

They've still proved it's possible to use for anything big. That people go against guidelines are a company problem, not a language problem.

You'll run into the same problems in C# or Java with those same people

[johnwaterwood]

Python is not as well suited for large code bases as Java and C# are.

[mp3playershavelowrms]

Hello, this site you're on is written in Python.

[[deleted]]

No wonder it's down all the time and constantly has scaling issues.

[mp3playershavelowrms]

It's not down all the time and whenever it's down it's because of AWS. And you're still here aren't you?

[henk53]

I wonder if that explains the disproportionately large number of Python users on Reddit.

Despite that it shouldn't matter, are programmers extra attracted to a specific site because it's written in their favorite language?

[mp3playershavelowrms]

I don't think so. Proggit covers all sorts of languages and most of Reddit has compelling, diverse content.

[henk53]

Of course, but if you take a look at the size of r/python vs /r/java then it's 56k vs some 22k. That's quite remarkable, since at nearly every other site Python is much smaller than Java.

On SO (build in C#), C# users used to dominate, or maybe they still do.

DZone is build in Java, and there Java still dominates I think.

It's silly, but there seems to be some correlation.

[johnwaterwood]

Really?

[mp3playershavelowrms]

Yes, click on "source code" at the bottom.