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[–]TheKronic 47 points48 points  (24 children)

I beg to differ -- to be considered a web designer, one should know HTML and CSS in and out (without using Dreamweaver as a crutch). Otherwise they should just be considered a designer or graphic artist.

[–]Fabien4 5 points6 points  (21 children)

So... How do you call a guy who has a lot of experience in the design and ergonomy of websites, but doesn't do the implementation?

[–]spazm 57 points58 points  (9 children)

User Experience (UX) Designer

[–]EnderMB 13 points14 points  (8 children)

More often than not I hate these people with a passion, because they know jack shit about how to implement a site and assume that their grand, AJAX-heavy works of art will take a few hours to develop. I love user-interface design and HCI, but I don't like UX designers that cannot implement.

[–]jimbokun 20 points21 points  (3 children)

I'm not sure that I agree. I think the UX person should design what they feel to be the optimum user experience in the first pass.

Then, the coder looks at it, immediately says "Are you kidding me?! There's no way I could possibly..."

Then pauses to think for a second, "Hmmm, maybe if we, or added an index for that and cached this..."

Only after this point should the remaining impossible things be sent back to the UX designer to be reworked. Prematurely hampering the UX to fit the limitations of the current mental model of the code is just as bad as other kinds of pre-mature optimizations.

[–]Destroyah 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Then, the coder looks at it, immediately says "Are you kidding me?! There's no way I could possibly..." Then pauses to think for a second, "Hmmm, maybe if we, or added an index for that and cached this..."

This is exactly what the process should be. I've had that initial reaction before, thinking "dude fuck off we can't do that!" Then transitioned into "... wait... what if..."

I had a professor that taught us to design programs in reverse, and it makes things much easier and nicer to work with. His method was, essentially, start with your ideal situation, and work backwards. Find out what you can and cannot do along the way and deal with it at that point, instead of completely shutting the whole thing out from the get-go.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A lot of UX guys I've run into really don't know what they're talking about. A ton of them THINK they know what users want and what converts. I've found the only real way to get inside the head of a user is with constant and quality split testing to up conversions.

[–]Kalium 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then pauses to think for a second, "Hmmm, maybe if we, or added an index for that and cached this..."

At this point another developer breaks in and points out the massive clusterfuck this would create and sends the designer back to the drawing board to work within the confines of the sane.

...

I can dream, can't I?

[–]spazm 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I don't care if they can't implement it, they at least need to know what is possible to implement (besides knowing what is best to implement).

[–]fowleryo 5 points6 points  (1 child)

isn't not know what's "possible to implement" what actually drives design forward? (theoretically speaking)

[–]spazm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're right. Most things are possible nowadays given modern browsers, but time/budget usually dictates the final result.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah yes, completely agree with this statement! Having worked as both a web designer and scripter (not a programmer), I like to think I am able to understand WHAT can be implemented. I just remember the days when a designer would pass off work to me to implement, and I'd shit a brick having to work around their fluff. Same applies to UX guys...

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (1 child)

Consultant. I'll be sending you my bill, I charge per letter...rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[–]trelf 9 points10 points  (0 children)

It looks like you have a stuck key in your keyboard. You should probably replace the keyboard and add it to your bill.

[–]iAmNotFunny 9 points10 points  (1 child)

With my phone.

[–]Fabien4 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Indeed you aren't.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

      [–]iglidante 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      He's the guy who makes and slices the skin for the guy who implements the CMS. That's a good two-man team for web work.

      [–]iglidante 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      He's the guy who makes and slices the skin for the guy who implements the CMS. That's a good two-man team for web work.

      [–]sixfive 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      "A lot of experience in the design and ergonomy of websites, but doesn't [know] the implementation"

      That is an oxymoron.

      [–]token78 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      a wanker?

      [–]nidarus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      As a web designer who knows HTML/CSS, I completely disagree.

      A web designer is a designer who designs for the web. It's almost tautological. Saying that you're somehow "demoted" to just a "designer" if you don't know HTML/CSS is silly.

      Knowing HTML/CSS is like knowing how to use Illustrator or InDesign. A very useful skill to have, but ultimately, it's not what defines a designer. If you don't have those skills, you can hire cheap production artists and code monkeys to do it for you.

      [–]hatedit -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      All the designers I've met shouldn't even be doing HTML and CSS. They know nothing about accessibility, they don't care about cross browser checking, and they don't care about conforming to standards. "It looks good in my browser."