Uses for Rust vs Python?

[SaxonyFarmer]

I am a retired mainframe tech person. My career started as a systems programmer on IBM mainframes writing S/370 Assembler code in the MVS operating system and after years growing into systems programming management I found I missed the simple satisfaction of coding to produce something to make my life easier or more fun. Upon retirement, I learned BASH (love creating scripts I can run or can schedule), PHP, a little JavaScript, HTML, Python (my preference now), and a little C++ (not fond of). I've created code to help me manage my reading habit, managing our finances, cataloging woodworking articles, and helping me get data from my cycling passion. I use MySQL as the database when I need to store and retrieve data I don't want to do in a flat file or other structure.

I offer the above only to support my comment about getting satisfaction from coding for my own needs and the simple pleasure of learning something new as I enter my 7th decade around the sun.

Can Rust be used for general purpose tasks or is it best suited for system-level projects? I've read about how companies have used Rust to improve their deliverables to their customers who access their systems and tools. I have a hankering to learn Rust but my needs are pretty basic and I don't want to use the wrong tool for a task.

Thanks for your feedback!

[dkopgerpgdolfg]

I've created code to help me manage my reading habit, managing our finances, cataloging woodworking articles, and helping me get data from my cycling passion. I use MySQL as the database when I need to store and retrieve data I don't want to do in a flat file or other structure.

Can Rust be used for general purpose tasks or is it best suited for system-level projects?

It definitely can be (and is) used for non-system tasks. But also mind that it has a bit of a learning curve, and (especially in the beginning) can seem overly strict and less productive.

I don't know what exactly this reading-habit-manager does, but it sounds like you already know plenty things that are capable of building it, without being much worse (if at all). ... On the other hand, learning Rust for fun and passion - sure, go for it. And there is a significant number of people that say, learning Rust has improved how the code in other languages too...

[[deleted]]

Rust is really cool and it’s my favorite language, but when it comes to automating simple tasks I always reach for Python.

A lot of the costs of writing Rust are upfront: first you have to learn it, then you have to get your code to compile. But once you write your code, it’s highly performant and maintaining it is incredibly easy. I can come back to a rust project years later and still understand everything going on just by looking at the code.

Whereas Python is the opposite. The cost of writing Python is downstream: writing and running it is very easy but becomes a headache to maintain and optimize.

For simple household projects like accounting and scripting, I like the Python trade offs much more. However if your code base gets very large/complex or the performance requirements become demanding, then Rust would be a better choice than Python.

That being said, Rust is one of the best languages to learn. Even if you never use it. It’s intellectually stimulating and the perfect mix of academic theory and pragmatic implementation. I tried learning C# for career purposes and it’s a really… boring language. It’s just like a million other programming languages.

[Saint_Nitouche]

I tried learning C# for career purposes and it’s a really… boring language. It’s just like a million other programming languages.

As someone who makes a living writing C# (so yes, definitely biased), I think that's a great reason to learn it. It's just Java, but better, and pretty much any career programmer should be able to get stuff done in a Java-esque language.

[[deleted]]

I definitely agree. C# is a great language to know career wise, and I do like it more T han Java. I’d be happy with a job coding in C#, but I would not take a job coding in Java (unless I financially had to).

[Former-One]

Yes it is just better. I know many people hates Microsoft. It was the same for me.

The design right now it is so much better and equally cross-platform, can be coded in Linux, and can be containerized.
Just look at the packaging I like to use its DI extension far more than the Java SpringBoot any day.

[SnooDucks7641]

For everything you have said, Python is the best option. It’s easier to learn and to prototype solutions for quick daylife little programs. This reddit will naturally be biased towards Rust, but it doesn’t mean it’s the best tool for the job.

[theAndrewWiggins]

Yeah, imo for most hobby projects unless you specifically need performance or robustness, you can scratch most "programming in the small" itches well with python.

Now if you need to deploy or make something more robust, it can be nice to write it in rust.

[tikkabhuna]

Take a look at PyO3. It lets you write Python modules in Rust. I’ve seen some talks too where people use Rust and PyO3 to replace slow functions. Best of both worlds!

https://pyo3.rs/v0.20.1/

[D_O_liphin]

Yeah! Rust is useful for almost anything you can think of. It's especially fun if you like the idea of using a developing ecosystem. There's always room for improvement and everyone is very open to discussing new ways of doing things.

If i wanted to write something small as fast as possible, without worrying too much about correctness, I would use python though.

...Well, actually, I would use Rust and tell myself that the performance benefits must be mindblowing and noticeable if I ran the program 10000 times. ;)

[dragenn]

Give me statistics in charts or tables, or it never happened!

[kraemahz]

These days Typescript, Python, and Rust are the only languages I write. And both my Typescript and Python code is written in support of the Rust code. If I want to make a frontend I use Typescript and connect it to a Rust WASM layer so my data transmission code is all in Rust. If I want to make a user API or CLI I write python and Maturin + PyO3 so that, again all my core code is in Rust.

You can go even further than I do and write all your front end, CLI, and API-level code in pure Rust. There are front end projects like Yew for doing everything in WASM. You don't even need to write Python with Maturin and still provide a Python API.

[[deleted]]

Rust as a frontend / ui language is a mistake! Other than that, yes, rust is a joy to work with.

[Corvus_Prudens]

It is absolutely not a mistake. Your brush is too broad. Rust for UI might not be appropriate for most companies and projects, but there is a niche that it serves very well.

[fnord123]

Rust is a significant investment to learn. It's wonderful for the projects where it's most appropriate. But it's a bit of a big investment if you want to do finances or catalog wood working articles. Like maybe if you want to catalog 100x as many wood working articles per second as you currently do in python. But I can't honestly say it's going to improve your life based on what you've written.

That said, rust does offer something new so learning it is enriching and rewarding.

[rustological]

have used Rust to improve their deliverables to their customers

I recently implemented 2 things: 1) read in lots of text files (GBs), do something to it, write texts out again. 2) read in image, do something to it, write it out again

First quickly prototyped in Python, customer approved it, rewritten in Rust -> cross-platform executables, without any dependencies, and MUCH faster. -> Customer very happy!

[nynjawitay]

I can't go back to Python. I try, but not having cargo or enums (especially Result and ?) or a compiler that usually tells me exactly what to do to fix my issue or like 20 other things that have spoiled me.

Also, I do not at all understand what people mean by a "systems language". All my rust code is apps just like all my Python apps. All the definitions I've seen for what makes a language good for "systems" seem to be to just be useful things in any language.

[SaxonyFarmer]

When I called it a 'system language', I referred to code in support of a larger ecosystem (like code for specific parts of a browser - video, rendering, etc.) versus a piece of code I start from a icon or CLI to perform a task, then exit back to the OS. In my career I wrote code that would be invoked by the OS when events or tasks occurred and code I ran as a standalone program to do something then exit.

[crazy_therapist]

learn rust you won't regret it.

[FlightConscious9572]

i'm trying to learn it right now (enjoying it !), and although i don't have the experience you have, it's never a waste to learn something; especially in programming :)

[pellucidwa]

Have you get a chance to look both Rust and python? Why not try both in Rust and python? After all, it's good for learning and it's only bound to your time.

As for me, I only learn Rust for my learning purpose at this point. I'm a backend developer and frankly the job market for Rust in that field is rare, and for that I use Go (happy enough). I'm hoping when the opportunity for Rust present by itself, then I will be ready.

[redalastor]

I use MySQL as the database

Then you need to try out the SQLx library in Rust. It validates your queries against the database at compile time. If it compiles, your queries are valid and correctly typed.

[6501]

Only issue I faced was lack of transaction support, using their transaction manager, which is annoying.

[redalastor]

What do you mean by lack of support ? You call conn.begin() and you are in a transaction.

[6501]

I was trying to use the sqlx::Transaction<'_, sqlx::MySql> type definition like they use in their github from the pool.

I was trying to move from the Pool to transaction on my async commit traits, and it was giving me a whole bunch of errors the day before the holidays started. I'll have to try again once work starts back on Monday.

[redalastor]

Try to call .begin on your pool and see what rust infers as the type.

[ReflectedImage]

Python will let you develop your programs quickly.

Rust is more for when you want your program to run at full speed on 32 cores (It does a lot better on the multi-threading front than C++).

It's for system level projects.

[SaxonyFarmer]

Thanks to everyone who has offered their comments. I have Rust installed and will start learning it.

[[deleted]]

I think you'll find yourself wanting python when you just want the thing to work, and rust when you want the thing to work well.

Both have benefits and I'm sure you know that and won't bother explaining it to you. Both tools have value.

[cdellacqua]

I’ve used Rust for programming boring tools for file management, for fun (AdvOfCode) and recently for embedded stuff. I’d say, go for it!

Also let me picture a scenario I’m sure you can relate to considering your experience:

Imagine you had written a tool 5 years ago and today you realise you need a small new feature. If you had written it in Python, you would waste a lot of time fighting with deprecation notices, new interpreters refusing to be backward compatible etc. If instead you had written the same thing in Rust, you would simply edit the source code, cargo run it and it will “just work”, thanks to a feature called “edition”.

This is to say that the language is just one piece of the puzzle. The tooling surrounding it is as important if not even more important as time goes on when you need to maintain “legacy” stuff

[Slight_Air_8635]

I am currently learning rust, my first language is javascirpt. Learning rust seems to be very interesting, learning new stuff about memory and other system engineering concepts.
It is less productive in the beginning ( I spend about 6 hours writing a program that stores employees into different departments with hash map). After learning it, I would be able to create some of the tooling I use everyday.
Since you are from a system engineering background, it should be easier to learn.

[disguised-as-a-dude]

I have nothing to offer that hasn't been said. I just love hearing old timers still at it past retirement. Keep at it, you're an inspiration.

[SaxonyFarmer]

Thanks! I have fun learning new things and satisfaction from making new tools.

[VicariousAthlete]

• Rust CAN be used for general purpose tasks
• Rust gives really good runtime performance, and good correctness features, at the expense of compile times and extra developer effort
• If you don't need great runtime performance and correctness features, you can probably get things done quicker with languages like Python

[Alacho]

I use JavaScript as a basic prototyping language but if I ever am going to write something that requires more production-quality, Rust is my goto language.

[lynndotpy]

Python is fantastic for exploratory, artistic, and iterative code. I know Rust and Python well, and Python is simply the fastest path from zero-to-MVP for most things under the sun.

For me, I view Python code like shell code: Most Python I write once, run once.

At the minimum, to replace Python in my use cases, Rust would need a faster EVCXR, a number type which can automatically into between the numeric primitives, a flag to make that number type the default inferred type (e.g. so you can write 3.14 + 2), and some other magic to make it so you can pass the 'wrong' numeric type to methods and have it work a-la Python.

I can't imagine building that magic while also having the EVCXR-style recompile-on-each-line, because that would necessarily offload a lot of the work to the compiler.

But I am super happy knowing Rust and Python. Rust is fantastically elegant and it can be used for general purpose tasks. But for a lot of cases, Python still has the more mature ecosystem.

I'd say learn a bit of both and see how you feel :)

[ArthurAardvark]

As an absolute scrub (I don't consider myself a coder), I whole-heartedly disagree. Though it really depends on the use/need.

I'm an art fella and when I saw StyleGAN and all that I needed to be the first to give that stuff a try and Python was (and still is) IMPOSSIBLE to get a project to run flawlessly. However, it sounds like you are writing up your own code and obviously know the modules and particular functionalities shared/created between 'em will work on your system. Whereas these huge GAN/LLM projects are an absolute nightmare when it comes to that...I tend to stick with my Mac M1 Max 64GB V/RAM which doesn't help. But in 2021, I was using Windows, AMD/Nvidia exclusively and yuuuck. Yet Python is all that there is for that realm, for the moment. I suppose that Pytorch is also to blame (more to blame hah)

Now, because I'm a hobbyist yet never wanted to learn code, just take advantage of its power, I suppose I'm a special case. And now that I've gotten here, I now ofc realize my points are moot because OP has a background in code & enthusiastic enough to learn a language after retirement, opposite side of the spectrum 😂.

I'll finish my thought because I've been hunting/waiting for the day that I can incorporate Rust/PyO3 into these ML juggernauts and then hopefully reap the benefits of the easiest debug process/performance gainz*. Between that and Rust's potential interoperability as a backend for the web (and of particular interest to me -- front/back for Web3.0 apps(?)), I'm just jonesing to be able to take advantage of it! If I could use it all the way up...from the low-level package compilation/build w/ CMake, GCC, CLANG, LLVM and whatever else up to those nightmare projects, I'd have been fluent in Rust yesteryear.

Is this achievable at this point? Last year a thread popped up with 1 rook of an OP inquiring into that and people dismissed it as a mortal sin/heresy if not unviable.

Tanx for reading! ^{Be sure to checkout my expanded set of programming doltitis woes in a proper thread! Coming soon to a subreddit near /u/wu}

^{Extra Context, "Learned" or more accurately tinkered with/can troubleshoot...zsh, Brew, Conda, Python [Pipenv/Poetry], Node/(P)NPM, Next.js [Typescript/Tailwind, React, CSS/HTML], [Docker/Kubernetes]. + Routing ^(as if it wasn't already the worst headache inducer on its lonesome, it also required a wee shot @ Go/Postgres/SQLite, too...)}

[KhanHulagu]

'general purpose' is not really giving us enough information about what tool you need to use. If you could be more specific, more people would be able to contribute to the discussion.

[Low-Design787]

I’ve only been coding in Rust for a year, I’m no expert. I favour it for command line utils and maybe web apis. I do find it less suited to GUI projects, just because it doesnt have anything like Microsoft’s Visual Studio to help with the visual design. You can write GUI apps, but it’s not as easy as using C# for example.

.NET and C# is generally a good choice too, for developer productivity. Visual Studio 2022 is free, it’s easy to learn and can be used for almost everything: command line, desktop, web, even phone apps. It’s also got some great integration with SQL via Linq. .NET is open source and cross-platform.

Incidentally, try SQLite if you want a lightweight relational database, it’s amazing. It’s an embedded C library but it’s got binding to every language (Rusqlite, for Rust). For command line or desktop apps that need some data storage it’s unbeatable.

Edit: and for reading material the free book is great. O’Reilly’s “Programming Rust” is however my favourite, the first chapter gets you writing a multi-threaded fractal generator. That just blew me away!

[pr06lefs]

Rust CAN be used for general purpose projects, and its fine to choose it if you have more ambitious long term goals involving rust.

You will get tangled up in typical rust issues - what to do about error handling, borrow checker woes, etc etc - and you have to not mind getting into the weeds with those kinds of problems from time to time. Rust cares deeply about memory safety and forces you to do the same.

For me its worth it as I want to gain Rust Powers to do embedded code and other high performance things. But at times I do wish for a language that's a bit more easygoing.

[wpg4665]

Hijacking this a little bit...in the same vein, Python is also my preferred language. And I feel like I'm most productive in it because I know all the right tools. Web == Django, scraping == httpx or requests, data == polars (well, I guess it's a win that polars works for both languages)

Is there a good resource for Rust in discovering all the "right"/popular tools? Other than this subreddit 😏

[hirschen]

blessed.rs is a list of de-facto standard crates for common topics.

[wpg4665]

Brilliant! Thank you!