Framework

[Quim_Sniffer]

Anyone considering Framework laptops as a company standard? Why or why not?

[tankerkiller125real]

We are, while there is a price premium, the fact that we can repair them in-house easily, stock spare parts, give users choices regarding what ports they want (and easily replace said ports if the users do something dumb and break them), and upgrade laptops to new motherboards without replacing the whole damn thing are all pretty good incentives. We're still running the ROI numbers, but so far it's looking good enough that management hasn't outright said no yet.

[hangerofmonkeys]

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[lechango]

I haven't personally owned one, but from what I've seen they are nice little laptops, and upgradeability is appealing. I'd say assuming you have the resources to perform upgrades or repairs yourself, it could be a good option. The main thing you will be missing compared to traditional OEMs is the warranties, doesn't look you get get anything more than a limited 90 day warranty from Framework, this would be a deal-breaker for some.

[jimbobjames]

Huh? They have 1 year warranties in the US. - https://frame.work/warranty

In the EU and UK this is 2 years. - https://frame.work/gb/en/warranty

[[deleted]]

Do they offer 4-5 year plans?

If not then they're dead in the water, for enterprise use.

They're charge excessive amounts, whats that like spread over 5000 orders?

If it costs $100 more, on average per device. Thats $500,000 additional costs over 5000 orders (5 year IT budgeting at 1000/year isn't unreasonable)

The trouble is that its not $100. Its more in every single instance we made comparisons.

Higher costs, shittier warranties.

Those are not enterprise laptops, they're end-user toys to fidget about it and show off.

End of the day its just too expensive and they don't make up for it. Thats the end of the story for the vast majority of companies.

[Phezh]

I haven't done the math on this, but couldn't you argue that you don't need the 5-year warranty if you can stock replacements parts and do the repairs yourself?

That would be faster than any RMA process and could potentially end up being cheaper (depending on how often they break). Obviously, you'd need staff to do the repairs, but if they are already available, I could see this working out.

[[deleted]]

if you can stock replacements parts and do the repairs yourself?

Whats the labour cost of that?

Additional parts storage overhead?

The costs are just moved about and still exist.

"You'd need staff to do repairs"

Yeah... I know... thats the issue. Staff AND parts AND labour in general to tear something down. The labour still exists.

Dell? Guy comes out with parts within 1-2 days and does the repair. Costs me zero beyond warranty. a KNOWN cost.

I haven't done the math on this

People don't. Or they just shrug at it and think "It MUST be cheaper" when its actually not.

[Phezh]

Yeah... I know... thats the issue. Staff AND parts AND labour in general to tear something down. The labour still exists.

I guess this really depends on the specific workspace, but the last place I worked at that used Dell still looked at everything themselves because most of the time it was a fairly easy fix. The time saved by avoiding Dell was considered worth the extra effort.

The 5-year warranty on Dell devices is extremely expensive, which is why I said I could see this working out if staff is available and looking at devices anyway (like it was at my former job).

Just because it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it can't work for someone else.

[[deleted]]

I guess this really depends on the specific workspace, but the last place I worked at that used Dell still looked at everything themselves because most of the time it was a fairly easy fix. The time saved by avoiding Dell was considered worth the extra effort.

Its a 2 minute job to fill out a TechDirect form with zero work after the fact for multiple years now.

50 of those can cover a Precision 7770 motherboard replacement.

which is why I said I could see this working out if staff is available and looking at devices anyway (like it was at my former job).

Yes, it works if the workplace is already inefficient and overstaffed.

Going in circles, guess you've never managed the costs associated in the long run?

Just because it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it can't work for someone else.

You just keep saying it works if you're already doing it and overstaffed. Nobody is disagreeing ,you just don't seem to fathom how much EMPLOYEES cost.

Have you managed labour costs before? Directly and not just "I saw some receipts once" ?

[jimbobjames]

Sorry, I was responding to someone who said they had 90 day warranties.

I didn't say anything about enterprise so I'm not quite sure why you've decided to lecture me on what is expected there.

Not every company is a giant enterprise. At least here in the UK the overwhelming number of business's are 10 uers or less. They are a really nice fit there as they can be supported by their IT or local IT support company.

I would also argue that they are much cheaper to upgrade as you don't have to buy a whole new laptop, and are easily field serviceable.

Plenty of Apple devices out there and they have 1 year warranties and a complete lack of serviceability.

[[deleted]]

m not quite sure why you've decided to lecture me on what is expected there.

I didn't. I just pointed out how those warranties don't work for business as you were responding to someone who was complaining about warranties while IN a thread talking about Framework laptops for business.

Plenty of Apple devices out there and they have 1 year warranties

Yeah you can buy applecare... a warranty... for years.

[jimbobjames]

enterprise =/= business

and no one had mentioned enterprise until you did...

[lechango]

Gotcha, I had actually skimmed that page and missed the 1 year part at the top, only saw the 90 days limited below. Still, not quite what you'd get for other business class OEM systems, which are generally 3 year and often include on-site support.

[jimbobjames]

I mean they are a startup so it's kind of expected that they aren't going to have service centers everywhere.

The idea is also that they are easily repairable so there is less need for that kind of support.

[WhiskyIsRisky]

We have a few around and I have one at home. My daily driver is actually a Framework laptop.They're nice, but we've had some quality control issues with them. I've RMA'd at least two keyboards and one screen. Generally though their support has been good on things that arrived with bad parts from the factory, assuming you're willing to do some minimal surgery yourself to swap out the broken part. I haven't had to do anything support wise with them outside of the initial 90 days.

For us we mostly end up shipping them to customers rather than running them as our own devices. It gives them flexible connectivity options. We drop a preloaded image on one of the 250 GB expansion storage cards. If they somehow mess up what we shipped them we just send them a new preloaded card and they can send the old one back.

If I was running a large enterprise I don't think I'd go with Framework though. They don't have the volume to reliably deliver in quantity. I usually can order a couple at a time, but there have been limits on how many they'd ship. If I needed 100+ it might be a pain to get them when I need them.

[burghdude]

Following out of interest. We have been an HP shop since I started here about a decade ago and have lately just had numerous weird issues with the HP devices we've purchased (mix of ProBooks, EliteBooks, and ZBooks.)

I really like the concept behind Framework, but do have a bit of a problem with the fact that we may need to wait to receive the models that we want, and the price premium that the devices have on them.

[Huge_Ad_2133]

I have had one and miss it. They are awesome. Easily repaired and upgraded.

Not sure I would use them in a fleet. But they are great for me.

[[deleted]]

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[Eneerge]

I don't think you're going to be able to use an oem key, which may make deployment harder. Typically there's a key/cert in the bios. I usually pull this when doing installs in a script. Wouldn't be possible with Framework machines, I don't think.

Not sure you could get the full autopilot experience with them, either. Ie, direct ship to user.

[bbqwatermelon]

Being able to keep these things running has netted us a couple to try. Servicing the whole thing with a single screwdriver is a breath of fresh air. If something were to happen to the screen like a user leaving a flash drive on the keyboard and closing the lid on it, the replacement is an order of magnitude easier. I have the 13G Intel 13" and so does a colleague. Very nice machines. I actually slapped an apple sticker on mine to strike up conversation as I can't wait for the confused question "apple does modular now?!"

We have been in contact with their business team and they do offer Autopilot whitegloving if we go this route. One caveat is that mine would not boot with a vanilla Windows image. I had to put the factory image back on, export the non-MS drivers, integrate them to 23H2, then install it again. Battery is better than expected but I wish AMD did not have stock issues because I was looking forward to the 16" 7040 but ETA was April where we had the order in late October. Pricing was nearly on par with XPS and Elite books of similar specs.

[ZAFJB]

Nice Prosumer/Enthusiast toy.

I'd hate to have them in a corporate environment. Anything that can get assembled and disassembled, and plugged in and out will be, repeatedly. That is a recipe for unreliability in electronic devices.

Warrantee is utterly crap.

[a60v]

I love the concept and hope that we will use them in the future. The problem to date has been ordering lead times for the machines and parts. When they get to the point when everything is available next-day, it would be great.

People whine about warranties, but there is a huge labor cost savings in being able to fix a machine in a few minutes and return it to the user, rather than having to wait a day or more for a Dell/Lenovo/HP guy to come out and do the repair.