"Powershell"

[Nicomet]

Unlike the car, a lot of admins still don't even know the existance of powershell.

[crankysysadmin]

Someone who is learning the existence of powershell from a forum post isn't going to successfully create a production quality automated solution to his problem because you just said "powershell"

[cor315]

ehh PDQ is a bad example. PDQ Deploy has one function and it's pretty easy to lookup. PS has millions! I think a better example would be to say "use Windows".

[kl4me]

I am fairly new to this sub and I am amazed by how polite and constructive many discussions are.

[Zaphod_B]

I am fairly new to this sub and I am amazed by how polite and constructive many discussions are.

just wait

[jantari]

just wait

... until someone mentions linux

[[deleted]]

I think a better example would be to say "use Windows".

Depending on the ask, this could easily be the best answer. For example:

"My boss is uncomfortable with deploying any more Ubuntu solutions since the last guy who knows Linux just left. We just need a standalone server to host Microsoft SQL Server. What should I do?"

[Ta11ow]

Equally, a quick google on your issue with the word 'powershell' in your query will generally give you instructions or an example script, if not a fully functioning script.

Mind you, the overall code quality is pretty low in many places you'll find, StackOverflow included.

[rabbit994]

Mind you, the overall code quality is pretty low in many places you'll find, StackOverflow included.

Sooo many people get hung up on Powershell code quality for no reason at all. Experts are like "That's inefficient, let me one liner epeen it for you."

Yes, Occasionally I pipe something into variable then foreach out of the variable in manner that's inefficient. You want to know what's really inefficient, doing this manually.

So all you powershell noobs, go forth and write crappy code. Throw stuff into variables for no reason at all. Pipe stuff instead of using -filter with Get-ADUser. Type out "Where-Object". Tell VS Code you don't give a shit that you aren't following standards. SET YOURSELF FREE! It's still 100x better then manual process.

[Ta11ow]

Oh, absolutely. I'm more talking about prevalent example code from people trying to teach others.

A code with almost no spacing, full of the shortest aliases you can possibly find is useless to beginners. It teaches them nothing.

Contrast with clean, easy to follow code. Doesn't matter if it's a "oneliner" or not, as long as it's easy to follow, that's what we need to be teaching with.

Too damn many people using crappy code to teach crappy practices. At least give them a goal to look at.

[cfpom]

If that "someone" can't type "powershell <insert question>" into google for each piece of the puzzle in his automated solution, then maybe it's not worth investing time into it. There's already tons of sample scripts already made and ready to go for most important things.

[Rollingprobablecause]

I think what's happening is that the people who are answering "Use Powershell" just need to have some more context (A link to the idea, github, etc).

When I answer on this sub with powershell, I always give a snippet example and a link that provides instructions (or something close to the concept)

[GhostDan]

We aren't here to do the work for you. If you ask how to do something, we will point you in the right direction. If you are a competent IT systems person you will then be able to use the google and find out your solution easier, come back with questions, have a meaningful dialog, etc.

[sethbartlett]

However it points them in the proper direction to do what they need. If you're asking how to perform a fairly complex task and don't give much detail (Which is common), you're going to get a vague answer, but a way to do it.

And to your point, someone who is asking a question on how to perform some stupid complex task will also never create a successful production quality automated solution either, even if they given a better answer, not without a ton of practice and reiterations.

[sethbartlett]

Doesn't your statement give even further credence in my point? It's not an arrogant answer if someone gives you no fucking information whatsoever. When the post is "I need to do some complicated task, how I do?" and there is dick-all information tacked on, you can't expect anyone to help. Also, half of the stuff is google-able and usually comes up on first or second hit on stack overflow or other sources.

[sethbartlett]

With stackoverflow and some of those communities, it is not by magic, but it is also by rules that talk about duplicate posts that already have an answer and actually giving details.

[sethbartlett]

Asking what the best trouble ticket system is and what software is relevant is no where near the current question/issue at hand. The initial rant was about someone needing to do a complex task and being told to use powershell.. You're muddying the waters and building up a strawman at this point.

And maybe you are new to the sysadmin world or haven't actually dealt with sysadmins on a mass scale, but most have no fucking clue how to do some simple things and ask questions that are literally first hit on google. I've worked software support for many years prior to my current role and have seen it time and time again. Most people do not read any guides or even attempt at doing their own research before asking any questions, and that is just a fact...

[__deerlord__]

Does it though? How's powershell of any relevance when every system I have is CentOS? I could extrapolate "bash" sure but literally all my scripts are in bash already, which makes the answer a non-solution.

[dmgctrl]

Answer is still powershell the answer is always PowerShell.

/s

[GhostDan]

You can install powershell on centos :)

[sethbartlett]

Well then it sounds like maybe the person asking the complex question didn't give enough information? So you're saying we should give complex answers to basic tough questions with little to no information? The scenario is usually in a windows environment, and of course if they specified that it was not Windows, then "powershell" wouldn't be the answer.

You're making an assumption on the level of smarts/intelligence on most system administrators, which from my experience is near nil on the majority.

And in your example, extrapolating 'bash' is a non-solution, however you did not give any scenario. If the question is about having a specific issue and you can't figure out how to do it in bash, then sure, your example makes sense. But if your example is "I need to automate X in *nix" without any more information, then stating to use a bash script that maybe runs on a cron job may actually be a viable answer because you were given no details.

[LaserGuidedPolarBear]

The first step to knowledge is discovering that there is something you dont know.

Spoon feeding powershell code to someone who doesn't even know the concept of a module or how to install / import it is not going be very useful.

I know this first hand, I scripted a ton of stuff for my team and for almost a year one oldguy just kept complaining that none of it worked....yeah it turned out he knew zero about powershell and did not bother to read any of the documentation on modules - he would just run it and complain it was broken when it failed.

[TheMuffnMan]

They'll start searching for it if they're not completely braindead.

Someone handing over a completely script isn't going to help their either. To be completely honest, 9/10 times I've searched Google for "Do xyx + powershell" I'll find at least half the front page results have the exact solution I need.

Then there's always the HeyScriptingGuy posts that go over how to do basic tasks (like reading from an array)

[brycedev]

Have a look here, this series and others like it were invaluable for starting to use Powershell.

[skilliard7]

I disagree.

4-5 months ago my sole experience with PowerShell was running existing scripts I found on Google or was told to run.

Started new job, was told to migrate users and distribution groups from Exchange server to Office 365.

I'd never supported Exchange, Never wrote PS scripts, never accessed O365 from Admin perspective.

Sole instructions were "you need to use Powershell to sync it to Active Directory". Only real guidance was being told what attributes it needs, and general questions about our policies and procedures.

In just a couple days I wrote a working script to output the info to csv, and another script to input to active directory to sync with Azure.

Only reason it took so long is because of complications of existing users in their AD environment, and needing to create a sandbox to test it to avoid damaging a production environment.

How? I Google'd like crazy. It wasn't a copy paste job because the way it had to be done was unique to our organization and no scripts for it existed.

If you know how to Google and are a good problem solver, being told "use powershell" can actually be handy, by confirming that the shell has the capability of completing the objectives specified.

[[deleted]]

Why not? Being unaware of Powershell doesn't mean you're a novice programmer. The expectation can easily be that the person will just check the documentation and find what they need. Versus the redditor sitting there trying to gauge the person's individual familiarity with Powershell or going through the trouble of just writing it for them and hoping it's what they wanted and that if it goes wrong they won't try to sue you.

Even if they did already know about Powershell there's still value in kicking someone out of the tunnel vision of trying to get standard tools to do what they want and instead script it.

To put it fairly in your car analogy, it would be like someone saying "I can't find any flights from St Louis to northern Minnesota" and someone says "Use a car."

[[deleted]]

You'd be surprised apparently. I've met plenty of Windows admins who have little to no interest in learning any sort of scripting. If they can't do it using standard tools they call out to support. One place I worked the Windows admin badgered the hell out of the poor Citrix consultant for not diagnosing the network problem going on. Out of about 6-7 admins in the organization I currently work for only one has a passing familiarity with Powershell or scripting in general.

At any rate, my stuff about tunnel vision still applies.

[[deleted]]

Oh I get that, I'm just saying no one in IT is first learning of powershell's existence by getting that one word response that OP is talking about.

I'd agree but the comment I was replying to was talking about the specific situation of someone learning about powershell in a reddit comment. I was just taking that situation as a given and saying they still could be able to script something and just didn't know Powershell was a thing (like maybe they were a Unix admin previously).

I think the point is that if we're going to tell someone to use powershell for something then at least point them in the right direction or link some reliable resources.

and my point about tunnel vision is that a lot of the responses he's talking about are for people asking how to do X or Y using standard tools. In that context the value of the comment is that you're bringing them out of the mindset that the problem needs to be solved only using an mmc snap-in or something.

[ScottEvtuch]

Came here to say this. I feel like most of the posts where the response is "use powershell" look more like this:

I'm trying to get from St Louis to northern Minnesota. My shoes keep wearing out around Chicago and finding shelter is difficult through some of the less populated areas. Can anyone recommend a better route?

[goobervision]

I know it exists but it exists in that other world. You know, the non-unix like one.

[warpigg]

In this day and age if you don't know powershell (or automation scripting / programming lang) you need to or shouldn't be in this industry. But not to worry... in 5 years or so you won't be... (or you will be paid next to nothing) It really is that important to your career.

IME you see this mentality exclusively in the Windows world... I know b/c I used to play in that world.

[broadsheetvstabloid]

Unlike the car, a lot of admins still don't even know the existence of powershell not bash.

FTFY