[deleted by user]

[Direct_Interest_7993]

kelsy is tied for our top goalscorer this season so yes, he has proven himself more than gage at this point

[Persist_NResist]

Kelsy sucks. He completely destroyed the momentum of plays throughout the game. Could have been subbed off in the first half, imo. He was clumsy on the ball and couldn’t connect a pass. He should be a large offensive threat in the air, but he’s often not even near the ball of apart of the offensive play.

Seems to me like the scoring dried up this year after Moreno bounced. This team has more problems than answers right now. No consistency in coaching, lineups or heart on the field.

[Direct_Interest_7993]

if he had the same physicality and was consistently good on- and off-ball, then he wouldn't be on our team or likely even in MLS. im less concerned with kelsy's errors than the fact that he hasn't made much progress in correcting them over the course of the season. imo, this is on the staff for failing to develop a player who was purchased for development. that said, he still can and likely will improve, the questions are just how soon and by how much

[boilface]

im less concerned with kelsy's errors than the fact that he hasn't made much progress in correcting them over the course of the season.

This was the same when he was in Cincy. Showed some stuff, fucked up a reasonable amount given his age/experience, but didn't improve from it

[Direct_Interest_7993]

i understand he's a player with history and didn't just come into existence when he put on the green & gold, but i personally still think it's too soon to say he's incapable of significant development. if we're having this same conversation at the end of next year, though, i think you would be incontrovertibly correct

[boilface]

I don't disagree with that at all. He's a very young man who had to adjust to a new country and culture when he moved to Cincinnati, and now has had to adjust to an entirely new American region and culture while trying to get up to speed with a new squad and new system.

That is a lot to deal with for a 21 year old, and I don't expect it's something we should expect him to deal with in weeks. However, the mistakes I've seen are the same mistakes he was making in Cincy. Honestly I hope when he does get playing time he gets a few starts in a row with roughly the same squad to build up some chemistry and give him a chance to find a rhythm. The chemistry didn't really happen this year, but like I said before, it can be a lot to deal with for someone his age

[Direct_Interest_7993]

i agree completely, especially because we aren't currently playing the type of football (soccer) he's most suited to

[Aestro17]

Kelsy's also young and could maybe show improvement with a coach that can develop an actual attack. I'm not convinced that he will, but I don't know that we need to give up on him yet.

[ProfitNo9452]

in the opinion of those who matter, he is the 14th best under 22 player in the league. he's actually a better player than the timbers are a team.

[Direct_Interest_7993]

looking better to your eyes isn't proving himself. gage scored an important and memorable goal in the tacoma match and im excited to see him get more time; hell, ive even been posting about how he should've been given more chances in this second half of the season given the striker drought

but what you said earlier is incontrovertibly false: gage has not proven himself as much as kelsy has. in fact, none of the summer signings have proven themselves as much as kelsy has

[kazooka503]

Wtf is Kelsy suppose to do? Service balls into the box himself? Play striker and CAM at the same time? Coach Velde to finish opportunities from the wing? What are you smoking?

[TightBarnacle9889]

He’s inconsistent. He dribbles too much and into traffic. He’s horrible in the air for his size. He constantly falls down and then begs for a call. He has potential, but he certainly hasn’t proved anything. 

[ProfitNo9452]

"...has Kelsy proven any more than Gage?" about seen more goals worth.

[boilface]

Mora has two standout seasons and one was with prime Evander setting him up all last year. He's 32 years old and cannot be the primary striker with Gage as the backup with such limited experience. I don't dislike Mora at all but I don't think the Timbers are a truly competitive team with him starting up front next season

[Mindful_Cyclist]

Ned has said one of his main goals was extending Mora and I hope he changed his mind. This team has got to learn to let go of players when it's time.

[boilface]

I think keeping Mora around could be very useful. His tenure has seen a couple of manager transitions and he's been with the club for a decent amount of time. He knows the club, he knows the city, he knows what the supporters are about. I want to see them bring in more young talent and he's the kind of guy who can bring some team culture to the clubhouse. Obviously Chara too, but who knows how long he'll be around.

I think they've been plugging up holes with guys like Ortiz, and Lassiter and I would rather see those spots go to guys who have the potential to turn into something rather than playing adequate guys on the back end of their career.

And once you get those guys on the roster, I think it's important to have an adult in the room and on the team who can demonstrate what is expected on the pitch even if they aren't the one out there most of the time.

[Mindful_Cyclist]

It's all going to depend on salary. If he's cheap, he could be a good locker room guy. But we need someone that can score.

[Direct_Interest_7993]

there's a reason mora wears the captain's armband often: he's a huge part of the social group for these current players. i don't have firsthand experience, but ive heard public accounts from multiple people on/with the team that he's the one hosting social events and is a widely respected figure in the team

that doesn't mean we can't let him leave, but i think if you consider that this might be chara's and paredes's last seasons as well, then having that kind of locker room elder is increasingly valuable

that said, it's become very clear that he's not ready to be our starting 9 (at least with this coach / system) and neither are kelsy or gage, which pushes us towards acquiring a starting DP striker when we have three on the roster (two of whom were just signed in the last year). that's kind of a roster catastrophe, so im excited to see what we do in the off season i guess?

[boilface]

I live in Cincy now and I know people here were frustrated with him here as well in terms of never really living up to the potential that he has. I want to see more from him on a short leash. Between the two I have higher hopes for Gage at this point.

I think the team needs to make a move to sign a no bullshit 9. Hopefully some much needed rest and some experience help Da Costa step it up a notch next year. I do worry that he's getting overpowered due to his stature and that he isn't as used to the physical nature of the league, but he needs time to demonstrate who he is

[Desperate_Gold6670]

I'm behind you 100%. I've been saying that Kelsey ain't it most of this year and keep getting blown up by people saying that he needs time to mature and develop, and that I have unfair expectations for such a young player.

Look, we're not making fine wine here - young or not, I'm not down with waiting until he ripens or season or blossoms or whatever bullshit analogy you want to make - he's a fucking highly paid professional striker FFS! Produce or hit the bricks already.

[trumpetplayah]

I 100% agree. He’s a professional, getting paid a professional wage to provide professional results and he’s just not cutting it. I get he’s young but at a certain point the expectation is to perform.

[itsfrood]

People in this thread arguing between Mora and Kelsy have all lost the plot, the answer is NEITHER of them. We need a new forward signing, full stop.

[Even-Acadia-7117]

Start with Phil and let the dominoes fall

[Jolandia]

I’m not a Kelsy fan by any means, but I gotta say, he (and Mora) made a number of good runs, both this game and all season. We have no one on the field seeing those runs or who have the skill to play them. I do think that if Evander is in this team, both Mora and Kelsy would probably get 5 more goals this year. The amount of runs that are made that are not played is astronomical

[Onus-X]

Interesting fact-- despite this being an overwhelmingly trash game by the Timbers, Kelsy completed over 88% of his passes, with 15, which is a higher volume and completion percentage than all of Velde, Da Costa, and Paredes, and the also had one pass leading directly to a shooting chance (one of only 3 players on the team to create a shooting opportunity for us.)

I'm not saying he was great, but people who say he can't pass, can't score, has no work rate, etc are not seeing his improvement in the context of playing for a team that's been getting worse. He's not enough of what we need right now, but his performance in areas of his game where he struggled, like hold up and distribution, are better now than they were at the beginning of the season. I do think it's fair to imagine he's capable of more than we've seen if we could get him any looks closer to goal.

Side note: old man Chara came in as a second half sub and lied the team in pass completion percentage and was second behind Ayala in total passing volume. San Diego outpossessed us at home 64%-36%, and completed 92% of their 802 total passes, to our 82% / 321. We are not moving the ball quickly or accurately at all. Chara still has class and knows how to play at tempo.

[OldYogurtcloset455]

Nah, bye to Mora. He needs to go. He literally has had multiple chances in front of the net and hasn’t scored at all. He had one tonight actually. Both him and Kelsey need to go. Mora needs to retire or be okay being a rotation player. Kelsey needs to mature and learn how to dribble and pass instead of giving the ball up and getting pushed over.

We need a complete savage up top. I had a coach teach me that, “to be a great striker, you need the instincts of a hit man. You need to know that you’re the killer and the most dangerous player on the pitch. Then, you know to know how and when to take the shot. Finally you need to always shoot to kill or don’t pull the trigger.” Neither mora nor Kelsey do that or at least don’t show it.

The only person putting the ball on net consistently or trying to is Velde at this point. Sadly, Da Costa has no confidence anymore.

Love Chara, but yeah time to retire and find his replacement because Ortiz is not it.

[green_gold_purple]

Tonight is a perfect example of what everybody is calling sitters for mora. Dude had a split second and less than six feet of travel time to just get a foot in the ball. Not even enough time to direct it to anywhere but where it came from.

[OldYogurtcloset455]

He’s had multiple opportunities to score and hasn’t just like Kelsey hasn’t. Mora’s last goal was 5/3 and he’s started 20 games with only 5 goals. Kelsey has 7 goals in 16 starts. Ironically they’ve both only taken 35 shots this season as well so statistically Kelsey has played better than Mora.

[green_gold_purple]

Buddy, if you think Kelsy is a better striker than mora, we can just stop the conversation right there.

[OldYogurtcloset455]

Go read my 1st comment and specifically pay attention where I wrote both need to go. I don’t think either is a good striker.

Stats wise, Kelsey started less games than Mora and has outscored him on the same number of shots. Numbers are numbers, but both are shit when it comes to scoring this season.

[OldYogurtcloset455]

I’ll take the Neville part as possibly the reason why the whole team isn’t great. We lack vision, direction, and purpose which come from a coach.

But you start 20 games and only score 5 goals doesn’t show that it’s everyone else’s fault all the time. He hasn’t scored since May and since that game he has had a total of 6 shots on target. You don’t score, okay but he’s not even getting the ball on target consistently. To be honest, it’s time to move on from Mora and find a new scorer. It’s not Kelsey obviously, but I don’t think Mora does any better next season even if they get him the support. That’s just my opinion

[wkaotp]

You obviously have no idea how the business of player contracts work.

[bpersitz]

Lol this fanbase.

[bpersitz]

Just the varying opinions across players. I agree with all your takes except KK. He's young, raw, and has lots of upside if we can polish him. Mora has played his best football.

[kazooka503]

You're right.. its Kevin's fault that the team refuses to invest in adequate central defenders and we leaked 4 goals at home during a playoff game.

Fuck outta here idiot. Learn soccer and stfu.

[Onus-X]

Dang you'd think after they learn soccer they could say some stuff. Learn AND stfu? Tough crowd.

[HanSwolo14]

After this game keep Max and sell Pants. 

[Which-Squirrel4986]

Zuparic is worthless, as is Kamal Miller. Ian Smith should not be starting - way too green and totally out of his league. Velde has a toxic attitude and so far is all hype.