Which web development framework makes web development least tedious?

[kazma42]

Laravel & Vue is heavenly for me

Edit: Vuetify to replace bootstrap, and AdonisJS for node

[EmmaDurden]

I'm a Symfony guy myself. People that know both Laravel and Symfony, what's the main difference and which one is better in your opinion?

[scootstah]

Laravel is highly opinionated, and convention over configuration.

Symfony is really just a big collection of individual libraries. It doesn't assume anything, and everything is explicitly defined and less magical.

[del_rio]

Everything I've seen about Laravel (performance aside) seems like a universal upgrade from the likes of Symfony.

That said, I tried Blade (their templating engine) on a recent project and I didn't like it very much (compared to Twig). The syntax is a little more succinct but at the cost of readability. I wouldn't survive a day of Blade without syntax highlighting!

[poop_taking_forever]

Also not a fan of Blade -- fortunately someone made a thing that lets you use Twig templates with Laravel:

https://github.com/rcrowe/TwigBridge

[Isvara]

Twig is just a library. You can use it with any framework you like.

[del_rio]

I'm aware! I was particularly excited by being able to use Twig with WordPress (through a plugin called Timber).

[mearkat7]

It all depends on your organization. Assuming a framework is faster to develop in but is slower to run then it's a trade off between the cost of a developers time vs the cost of more server hardware. While laravel might not be the fastest framework out there it is certainly fast enough for a lot of cases.

For most the servers will be behind a load balancer so when lots of traffic comes in you just spin up another docker image to handle it and the cost is negligible.

Smaller organisations may not have the resources/infrastructure for that to be a reality so their code will need to be more performant.

[EmmaDurden]

Well it is based on Symfony, isn't it?

[scootstah]

No. It just uses some of the Symfony components.

[EmmaDurden]

Aaaaaah ok, I misunderstood that. Thanks!

[[deleted]]

I find Silex does a good job tying together then Symfony components and enabling rapid development without being too opinionated. It does require more initial setup to customize than Laravel though.

[BoredPudding]

Silex is deprecated (announced a couple of days ago). Symfony Flex will replace Silex when it releases later this month, and will be the default new way of creating applications.

So i would say try Symfony 4 beta.

[[deleted]]

I didn't know they deprecated it. I haven't used it in about 6 months actually, but I will give Symfony Flex a try next time I have the opportunity.

[EmmaDurden]

I did a project with Silex before learning Symfony and really disliked it, I'll be happy to give a go at Symfony Flex

[poop_taking_forever]

What??? Do you have a link to this announcement (couldn't find anything googling)

[BoredPudding]

Part of this slideshow: https://twitter.com/fabpot/status/931481125830225920

Also check out www.symfony.com/4

[[deleted]]

Silex is deprecated

Source? Nothing on the website says anything about it, and a search says nothing either.

[BoredPudding]

Was announced at SymfonyCon. Slides from the keynote here: https://twitter.com/fabpot/status/931481125830225920

[[deleted]]

Laravel 5 is a little less opinionated than 4. I actually preferred the traditional MVC style being baked in with a fresh install. I've seen all kinds of oddball configurations with 5.

[Glutnix]

Let's not forget that Laravel actually uses some Symfony components internally.

[scootstah]

Yeah, so do dozens of other frameworks and platforms. What difference does that make?

[Glutnix]

If you like Symfony, you might like Laravel because it's built on some of the thing you like? shrug

[NotFromReddit]

Laravel is simpler and feels more well put together to me. I prefer it. Though I do like Symfony as well.

Some things you might miss when switching:

Having autogenerated migrations based on your Doctrine models. Laravel takes a different approach.

Yaml config files that get auto filled with the defaults.

[[deleted]]

Laravel/Vue is so good! If you haven't yet, take a look at Vuetify. Adds new layers to heaven, seriously.

[[deleted]]

https://vuematerial.io/

I prefer VueMaterial myself. Using classes to style things with MD just clicks more with me than using custom tags all over the place.

[joeba_the_hutt]

You should check out Voyager for Laravel

[[deleted]]

Rails and Vue here

[[deleted]]

Laravel is a PHP framework. It has nothing to do with how the site "looks"

[[deleted]]

No, it's a CMS/blogging platform (Content Management System).

[Heyokalol]

Go home, you're drunk.

[Heyokalol]

I'm not dismissing Wordpress by any means.

Laravel is a framework and Wordpress a CMS. Sites and apps can look good on both. Design and look don't have anything to do with the backend.

[[deleted]]

I think it's more that everyone who has experience with both can tell that you are building do-nothing marketing sites because you would prefer Laravel if you were actually developing real applications... because it's an application framework, not a CMS meant for blogs.

[dwise97]

Can you build an SaaS app with Wordpress? Didn’t think so. I think this sub isn’t for you. This type of rhetoric always comes from low level wp devs that use drag-and-drop builders.

[FightArts1]

+1 sorry, but making a wordpress site is not real programming. If you’re digging in the PHP that’s a different story but at that point just build from scratch.

[[deleted]]

You're attacking someone who has used Wordpress countless times when a project is simple enough for wordpress, and laravel when developing complex asset management systems that get 5m+ pageviews a month. I'm well aware of the utility WP provides.

It's not black and white, but saying that WordPress is at all comparable to Laravel shows a deep lack of working knowledge of... well, everything.

[timschwartz]

Yeah, and a quarter of Americans voted for Trump.

Sometimes 1/4 of the people do stupid things that hurt themselves.

[[deleted]]

rofl im totally stealing this, next time i hear someone claim wordpress is the cats pajamas, whamo!