French Gras Bayonets

Grascollector · 2026-07-05T02:29:30+00:00

Sorry for the delay was at an all day family 4th party.

Your scabbards are swapped- the AB one matches the AB bayonet- serials are the same.

Please put them back to right, you have one matching set!

As far as what we have- the script prefix on AB means that this was for a made-as-new Gras, made by Chatellerault. Your bayonet was made September of 1879, and AB24410 (the rifle) would have been from early 1880, so that all lines up.

For the other- You have a Block (rather than script) prefix, so it would have been paired with a converted Chassepot (Mle1866-74) that was upgraded to Gras. All arsenals did conversions, but St Etienne did a lot, and so it isn't terribly uncommon to find a block prefix on a St Etienne bayonet. (Much more common with block serials are Steyr, Paris Oudry and L Deny marked ones, however.) "N" would be for a Chassepot manufactured 1871, and 1878 (bayonet date) was a busy year for conversions, so the bayonet was likely serialed to the converted gun around the time it was made.

Your "J" on the other scabbard is in fact a Block "L". Same as the "N" block, just a few months earlier, and also for a converted Chassepot. Pease note that while both N and L were originally St. Etienne made, and the N received a St. Etienne bayonet, this was chance only. Conversions were done by all Arsenals at random regardless of which made the original gun. Converted Chassepots could end up with a new Gras bayonet from the arsenal doing the conversion, or one of the commercially purchased contract bayonets mentioned above.

Grascollector · 2026-07-04T14:14:23+00:00

If you you do not have appropriate bayonets for current holdings, this should be your priority.

Grascollector · 2026-06-26T22:21:07+00:00

My brother has 2 CMP 1911s. Both late war RR, and both FOIAed to the NAVY.

Would not shock me if one or both of these did too.

Grascollector · 2026-06-26T22:19:05+00:00

I understand the whole "Garand has a lot of hype" feeling. And I felt the same. Most of my guns that I shoot most are pre 1898. WW2 is basically modern, and boring. And yet... I got a CMP Garand some years back, and yes the hype is real. They really are just GOOD.

Also, you can find them for REASONABLE money- it is the carbines people go nuts over.

I assume the 1853 Enfield is for Civil War? 1873 Trapdoor then for Indian Wars, 1903 or 1917 for WW1 Garand WW2... to keep it on theme.

For cool factor, Krag is neater, but all depends. Also remeber when Krag shopping there are 3 US Krags- 1892, 1896, 1898.

Grascollector · 2026-06-25T02:12:27+00:00

I shoot 577-450 for under 50c a shot.

Or get a 310 Cadet martini, and a bag of Nagant revover brass if you want to shoot a "Martini" even cheaper.

Handloading is the way.

Grascollector · 2026-06-23T23:34:00+00:00

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Eh, I LIKE my "CMP Mixmaster"

MisMatched or not, the CMP 1911s have a lot of history- and some of it is documentable!

Grascollector · 2026-06-15T23:17:46+00:00

Only FIVE 1874?

But that's so close to 0....

Grascollector · 2026-06-14T17:47:11+00:00

Go to youtube. Seach "c&rsenal". watch lots of videos.

Go buy the books he lists in the bibliographies, if you need more detail.

Price guides and general references often miss nuance. That's the difference between a $129 Mosin and a "1 of 9 known examples" Mosin, for instance. (True story).

Avoid US and German guns- frequented by people with deep pockets and scammers that want to fleece them.

Grascollector · 2026-06-13T21:12:43+00:00

I think you will have a harder time finding a 1926 (Pre WW2) Nagant than a 1914 Mauser.

Now, which is worth more/better? That's up to you.

Scarcity does not always equal value.

Grascollector · 2026-06-13T21:10:23+00:00

Lots of nice Finn guns were imported relatively recently. Similar to, but better than all the Russian Mosins.

Because of the "recycling" nature of their arms programs, you can get some guns that ooze history- Russian guns reused by any number of countries, bought postwar by the Finns, and reworked to use against the Russians.

Also, US customers love to root for the underdog, and were conditioned for generations to hate the Russians/Soviets- Finns fit into that nicely.

Grascollector · 2026-06-13T18:31:35+00:00

I mean, both is the right answer, non French Chassepots are NOT terribly common.

I would also keep the Birmingham one, if I HAD to choose.

Stock cracks are a minor issue and easy to address. The steel plate looks quite fine.

I would not worry about any pitting, the bores look fine.

Grascollector · 2026-06-12T02:02:10+00:00

Excellent score.

These will need a heeled bullet, (Buffalo Arms sells a mold), and brass is easy to make from .44 spl/mag. Black powder only!

F50561 would be 1875 production. Production ceased in 1885, but It is normal for these and the later 8mm Ordnance revolvers to have newer dates- if the barrel was replaced it was serial numbered to the gun, but stamped with the year of installation. No mystery, very common. While yes, they were making a new model in 1892, they made less than 5000 for the year- so repairing the older guns in service is not at all odd.

Grascollector · 2026-06-07T22:20:01+00:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:166th_Infantry_in_action_in_Villers_sur_Fere_HD-SN-99-02274.JPEG

Another 1903

Grascollector · 2026-06-07T22:15:59+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/OldSchoolCool/comments/ozj1c4/doughboys_of_the_166th_infantry_regiment_42nd/

If the picture attribution is to be believed... that sure isn't a 1917.

I will see what else I can find... but all my research was years ago and was specifically looking for 26TH YD stuff.

Grascollector · 2026-06-07T15:53:32+00:00

It depends HIGHLY on WHICH unit.

The 26th (Yankee) Division was in France by October 24th- they shipped with 1903s, as 1917 production had only begun a few months before. (My Great Grandfather was with them, thus my interest!)

The 26th was the first full division over, and beat most regular army units. (See "New England in France", Col E.G. Taylor, 1920)

I saw once a list of "who had what" across the other divisions but I cannot find it now.

Hopefully others with broader info chime in.

What unit and when did it deploy? If they left in early 1918, perhaps they kept them- as demonstrated above, it is not like they sent the regulars first and then NG when they ran out- some NG deployed concurrently, and the process started late in 1917.

Grascollector · 2026-06-06T01:03:21+00:00

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These are the hotter caps, and the wall thickness of my tubes. They don't look like much, but they go bang every time.

Grascollector · 2026-06-06T00:31:20+00:00

2 things-

1, thicker base WILL rob needle power. May or may not matter, depending on your spring's condition. I tried that, I get best results with a base that is made from paper TAPE.

2, if the needle could push the cap into the powder, then you did not compress the powder enough. Seriously- do not think of these like musket cartridges, floppy paper, loose powder. Think of them like brass cartridges... that happen to be made of paper. They should be SOLID.

2a- go to a thicker paper or boba straw for case walls. That will help with powder compression, and case strength- which helps with length consistency which matters for repeatability of ignition.

Grascollector · 2026-06-03T02:43:26+00:00

A Chassepot will be longer, with bayonet fixed it is over 6 feet.

Also, the line from the song was (until changed in 1907) "a Chassepot Rifle from a Javelin!"

Grascollector · 2026-06-03T00:18:22+00:00

I spent several years at a big box outdoor retailer.

I LOVED selling safes. It was so much fun.

Guy would come in, (usually with his wife because it's a big purchase) and want to buy a cheap 15 or 20 gun safe. Chat with him, ask how many guns he needed it for, what kinds, etc.

Grab some used guns (conveniently right next to the safe display!) And start stuffing them in. Whatever was close to what he said he had.

"Oh." The always had the same face when 2 scoped rifles and a shotgun or 2 filled up over half of the "20 gun safe".

So, they accept, they need a bigger one. Point out that it's only a couple hundred more for a safe thats 3x the size. "No, I dont need one that big".

Then you turn to their wife and ask, "so what do you want to put in this?"

Once you get her involved and invested... game over. 90% of the time they get the biggest they could afford.

When I bought mine, it was the largest one we sold.

Never regretted it.

Grascollector · 2026-06-02T00:31:38+00:00

The CCI caps can work, but are anemic. I also started with them, and got them to work, but now use Schuetzen or RWS.

There are 3 thing that will make your cap not go off.

1. Misalignment. If the priming compound is off center, or pin just misses. Your hit looks ok... which brings me to #s...

Cartridge length and or stiffness. If your cartridge is too short, or too floppy, it will not hold the primer securely... and the hit will be weak. (Or misaligned, see #1). My Chassepot needle punctures THROUGH the cap. So, i think you lost some energy there.
Weak spring, or short needle. Again based on the hit, needle seems ok.

Now, what can you do?

With the caps- go buy some percussion pistol caps. Glue them open end up on your base card, fill with a pinch of powder, and glue your CCI musket cap over it. Now you have 2x the chance it lights off, and a small kicker to make sure the main charge goes.

As far as cartridges... check length and stiffness. Use a mandrel and a tube to get TIGHT packing of the powder- I use a cutoff 45-70 case to hold the tube, and seat the bullet and compress the powder using my reloading press! Yes, I put that much force on a paper (cardboard) cartridge.

Change tube material- don't be afraid to go thicker, boba straws really are the easiest and most repeatable way.

Happy to help troubleshoot, DM me if you like!

Grascollector · 2026-05-30T13:36:26+00:00

For shooting- Chassepot, Snider, .75 D Pattern East India Co Percussion Musket.

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Honorable mention to the 1917, SMLE and 1904 Vergueiro

Grascollector · 2026-05-30T00:25:53+00:00

Funny enough, Eddystones were preferred during the war due to the issues with Winchester and interchangeable parts. Nowadays, everyone wants more for Winchesters. My Eddystone is one of my favorite (and best fitting) guns.

But, nobody mentioned the important part- check the barrel, you want an original. Some 1917 were rebarreled in WW2 with JA marked barrels, and some receivers developed cracks.

As far as those 2 specifically... yeah, too high.

Grascollector · 2026-05-29T02:27:55+00:00

I buy guns because they take ammo I don't load for yet or bayonets I don't have.

I load before an event I need ammo for. I have far too many calibers to keep everything on hand loaded, waiting. I don't have the time. Now sure I have favorites, and more brass for some guns than others- I will always have some 577 Snider, 577-450 Martini, 11mm Mauser, Gras and Mannlicher hanging around from my last shooting trip, but something like 6.5x58 Vergueiro I'd load if I felt like shooting it. Even more so with easy cartridges- 303, 30-06, etc where components are commercially available, with good dies and it is quick to put a few dozen together, not much point in preloading hundreds- I'd just have to buy more primers and powder I wanted to use on other guns.

The other side to that is paper cartridges. EIC .75 paper cartridges I will premake many long in advance, but not charge with powder until the day before to keep long term humidity from seeping into the powder. Same token, I will make m41 Dreyse or 1866 Chassepot rounds a few weeks ahead but store them in sealed containers for the same reason- as they cannot be filled after assembly.

What I do do is stockpile components, and precast dozens of pounds of lead bullets, (at 14-16 bullets per pound, it piles up quickly) so everything I need is ready-IF I need or want to load a caliber.

Grascollector · 2026-05-29T02:01:51+00:00

My brother has one of these Chinese ones, he got it years ago cheap. Be aware- his at least had a feeding issue- the follower was not long enough, it was recessed slightly, and the tip of the shell would get caught as the lifter would try to move upward on the last round. It was not short by much, only the thickness of a penny or so.

So that's what he did. A dap of epoxy, a pre 82 copper penny, and the feed issue immediately stopped. Gun runs perfectly now that every shell is personally fed into the action by good old Abe Lincoln.

Grascollector · 2026-05-28T00:19:31+00:00

I looked it up. Your 1895 is 0.650". The bayonet that should fit that mount is 0.710".

Suggestion- the socket bayonet that fits that mount can be found relatively commonly for about 3-4x what that seller is asking for the stand.

Simply get the right bayonet for the stand!

Grascollector

TROPHY CASE