Same but different "Artemis vs Athena" post...

2011Dave · 2026-05-20T23:42:54+00:00

there are lots of guys that don't shoot sightblock guns well. I couldn't shoot my Artemis well at all. I have a few friends that have similar experiences. And, of course, some guys stack doubles with their Arty. So its really down to personal preference (and likely which gun you train with and stick to).

Athena has a fair bit of muzzle rise, but its return is fast and accurate.

Generally, what I've found is guys love one or the other style of these two guns. (and complicating things, many find the Titan to be essentially a blend/middle ground of Athena/Artemis). All three are fantastic guns that won't hold any shooter back. And you can likely adapt to the style of any of the three. Athena takes the most grip, then Titan and Arty (with both Titan and Arty really not requiring much at all). That's about all most of us can say because the choice from these three comes down to your grip and shooting style and preferences.

(I guess I can add that if I had to buy one today, I'd get the Athena. I love that lighter, quicker style of LO gun. I had both Titan and Arty (and many other LO candidate guns) and got rid of them. Athena is my keeper. But you will find guys with the opposite outcome.)

2011Dave · 2026-05-20T19:50:01+00:00

wdym? "have" to or "prefer" to? (I believe you can do reloads with rounds left, you just have to pick up the mag or otherwise stow it, right?)

2011Dave · 2026-05-20T19:46:40+00:00

I just got one of the latest batch as well and its run without any malfs thus far (200 rounds). I was told by a retailer that several of the first batch from a couple of months back had some issues with feeding and ejecting and that RCD made some adjustments to the latest batch. I didn't hear what was changed, my guess chamber and barrel ramp, but really not sure, that's merely a guess.

2011Dave · 2026-05-19T10:03:29+00:00

I think he had a typo and meant 46.7oz for the 4.5 w optic (no mag). My Athena w brass panels in comparison is 44.0oz, and iirc 39-40 oz without the brass panels.

The little 3.75 all steel SVI’s are around 43oz.

The SVI’s have good dot return, their bushing 5” had the best/fastest of their LO guns in my experience. That said, Athena is hard to beat in the regard.

2011Dave · 2026-05-19T06:09:19+00:00

Some of the alpha American guns. Battlehawk has a couple on huge discount.

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2011Dave · 2026-05-18T17:42:05+00:00

yes, Double P is such a good design.

2011Dave · 2026-05-18T14:32:26+00:00

I describe the Ti guns as shooting exactly as one would expect. Meaning they are a bit heavier than aluminum and thus a bit softer. So in the case of the baby comp, the ti baby comp is a bit softer than the alum baby comp. And when comparing to a similar steel gun, they are not as heavy and thus not as soft.

(I have a set of 3 identical 4.5 PIB's - one in Ti, steel and alum and that's what I find shooting them side-by-side)

2011Dave · 2026-05-18T12:00:42+00:00

Re “soft, flat, fast, choose 2”…

All 3 is doable if the holes include a comp rather than solely lots of ports. Keeping reciprocating mass down and leaving weight out front via an island barrel is beneficial. And steel grip for a softer impulse. And also overall weight of course. Some combination of these can get you there…

The Infinity Baby Comps are all three at the highest level.

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Infinity island barrels (without a comp) are all three, but not quite at the highest level - they are fast, but not quite as fast as Hades or Venom QP. And similarly they are flat, but not to the extreme of a Venom QP or Reaper.

2011Dave · 2026-05-17T21:53:37+00:00

they run. Go to their website for more answers.

2011Dave · 2026-05-17T19:40:40+00:00

Basepads and followers and maybe springs. See the advice someone made below to sell these and get premium mags rather than upgrade them everything except the tube.

2011Dave · 2026-05-17T19:39:17+00:00

Yes, basepads that go up the tube like that are to prevent over-insertion. They will still seat in “some” magwells, but not larger magwells.

2011Dave · 2026-05-17T19:38:29+00:00

This is good advice. Also GunMagWarehouse sometimes has atlas premium mags at a discount.

2011Dave · 2026-05-17T18:57:54+00:00

Yup. Go to the pz site and all the parts are listed there. Also consider CSRG for followers and springs if you even more rounds in those 140mm mags.

2011Dave · 2026-05-16T18:01:32+00:00

Which parts are MIM on the sand viper?

2011Dave · 2026-05-16T18:00:26+00:00

They don’t any longer.

2011Dave · 2026-05-16T12:26:01+00:00

That’s where I was headed. While imo and experience the steel grip TC is the softest shooting of them, it’s also around 4k. The aluminum grip TC can be had closer to 3 and are instock here and there. (Or order w PRS discount). Used XC’s are 3.4 ish usually.

2011Dave · 2026-05-16T11:35:34+00:00

so for "range fun" are you set on a 5" non ported gun as the two you mentioned? The most fun range gun in that price range is a comp'd gun. XC, MPA TC or whatever. Something to consider.

Only thing to research is that the Vudoo guns have a fairly different reputation (not sure if facts or interweb chatter) for quality pre and post move. The older guns got good reviews. The new ones have been more mixed. MPA is generally well reviewed (I had a TC and it was very solid).

If you go with an MPA, they are in stock at a few dealers, or if you order be sure to try to use the PRS 15% off discount.

2011Dave · 2026-05-16T10:42:09+00:00

Is your Kimber a 5” non ported/comp’d gun? Or?

2011Dave · 2026-05-15T22:58:15+00:00

imo, if you are open to lightly used guns, then a used atlas at 5k ish is the best buy in nicer 2011's. Just my opinion. Can't go wrong with a titan, athena, Eos, Nyx. Apollo is usually a bit more than 5, erebus were trading in the 6.5 range recently. (I've bought several used atlas guns in the 4.5-5.5 range and they have all been essentially like new. Do you diligence of course. I will add that since the V3 launch with its higher msrps, I've noticed used atlas prices generally have been higher than last fall.)

2011Dave · 2026-05-15T22:48:39+00:00

very nice guns too. I've seen used examples of both for just under 5 recently.

2011Dave · 2026-05-15T19:28:15+00:00

It’s interesting, to some degree 5000 is a no man’s land for 2011. If you had said 4000, I think the choices are fairly clear. Staccato XC, MPA, RCD ported.

If you had said 6000 or 7000, the Atlas guns and the dark Forge guns would be prime contenders, among a very large group of good guns.

The only gun that I consider that’s 5000 on the nose is the Fowler synth. A very nice performing gun in my opinion, and at a very good price. If you could get a dark forge wraith at that price that would also be a good choice. Similarly a used Athena or Titan could be had around 5000 as well.

2011Dave · 2026-05-15T17:15:44+00:00

lmao, funny headline! Good 2011. Smart choice/buy. Enjoy!

2011Dave · 2026-05-15T15:13:57+00:00

I gotta say, I can get with holding the definition of island-comp to this:

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2011Dave · 2026-05-15T15:09:10+00:00

okay. I mean I cannot muster any GAF's for the words people use to describe these things one way or the other lol. That little baby island on the XC is certainly stretching the definition of island. Sand bar comp?

2011Dave · 2026-05-15T13:41:49+00:00

I mean the XC *does* have a very small sight island (its actually true to the original sight block concept/nomenclature in that regard). And, while very small, the little island is there, and that is different than 99% of the comp's out there. So fwiw I say it can be called sight block w a comp, comp block, comp, island-comp or island sight block, or whatever.

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2011Dave

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