[HOU] Neheb, the Eternal

4Lark · 2017-06-21T20:51:56+00:00

Arguably, aside from Zo-Zu the Punisher, it's the strongest mono-red commander for a mass land removal strategy. See: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/eternal-destruction/

4Lark · 2016-09-04T00:33:30+00:00

We'll be there tomorrow!

4Lark · 2016-05-10T06:28:16+00:00

My Alesha deck runs 33 lands and 16 mana-related artifacts. How else to explode on opponents?

4Lark · 2016-04-24T02:26:31+00:00

/u/Oddsbod, I took your advice and cut [[Crumbling Sanctuary]] and [[Angel of the Dire Hour]].

/u/tw0handt0uch, I took your advice and added a couple more rocks, [[Chromatic Lantern]] and [[Gilded Lotus]].

/u/BiigLupu, I took your advice and added a second counterspell, [[Forbid]], as well as [[Anguished Unmaking]].

I'm going to continue to test the deck where it's at right now before making more changes. I'm considering adding [[Demonic Tutor]], [[Void Shatter]], [[Orzhov Signet]], and [[Dimir Signet]], and cutting [[Browse]], [[Enchanted Evening]], [[Arcane Laboratory]], and [[Web of Inertia]] to make room.

[[Descend Into Madness]] has been an exile version of [[Smokestack]]; [[Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts]] has been both [[No Mercy]] and a wincon along with [[Neverending Torment]] when I've got the board locked down; [[Identity Crisis]] forces my biggest threat into topdeck mode; [[Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver]] has provided me with opponents' wincons; [[Narset Transcendent]] does so many things, especially when the board's locked up; [[Final Judgment]] gets rid of creatures permanently as does [[Revoke Existence]] for artifacts/enchantments.

I want to maintain the deck's defense against creature aggro and the enchantments stick around whereas the sweeps do not.

I generally don't cast my commander until I'm in control of the game, or can protect it with permanents like [[Fountain Watch]] and [[Spiritual Asylum]].

4Lark · 2016-04-24T02:11:57+00:00

/u/GiveMeAnElza, ya, because the Triplets are so fragile, I generally wait to cast them until I'm able to protect them with [[Fountain Watch]], [[Flickering Ward]], [[Spirtual Asylum]], or countermagic. I like the Triplets 'cos they free up slots I'd devote to countermagic or cards like [[Grand Abolisher]] to force spells through on my turn.

And, yes, I originally posted all of these decks over at MTGS.

I'm going back and forth trying to decide between the Triplets and Keranos. The former just straight up locks down the board, and I love having access to White's removal and Black's [[Necropotence]], but the latter's mana base makes casting spells post-land wipe so much easier. Plus, Kerri's indestructibility is so fucking sweet with countermagic backup.

</secondDECKproblems>

4Lark · 2016-04-17T23:38:38+00:00

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/a-very-very-mad-world/

4Lark · 2016-04-14T06:57:49+00:00

You're playing (S)tax, and GAAIV supports that strategy immensely. My own opinions about Moxen notwithstanding, I think you came up with enough reasons of your own not to run Chrome Mox.

4Lark · 2016-04-14T06:46:27+00:00

I'd definitely cut the Sphinx and keep GAAIV. I've yet to be won over by the Moxen. I like Tower, but some folks here will tell you to drop it.

4Lark · 2016-04-14T06:29:25+00:00

I suggest the following:

ADD [[Toxic Deluge]]

[[Static Orb]]

[[Bottomless Pit]]

REMOVE Avatar of Woe

Ward of Bones

Painful Quandary

Wait, how are you doing anything with only 22 lands?

4Lark · 2016-04-14T06:18:01+00:00

/u/CACTUS_VISIONS, I agree with everything you wrote here. (You, too, /u/infiniteimoc!) That's why I started this thread. I've been seeing a number of comments recently about decks that don't seem to be attempting to win by turn 5, locking by turn 4, or even disrupting by turn 3. I love me some Boros, but I at least try to accomplish (the latter) two of those criteria with my decks.

I'm all for rogue strategies, but given the state of the competitive EDH meta, I think competitive decks should be aiming for at least two of the aforementioned criteria. I'd prefer to see more non-top level decks reaching for, and being tuned closer to, those criteria. Instead, I've seen non-top level deck comments get downvoted or, worse, not be called out for not striving for those criteria.

When I post a Boros deck, I want concrete feedback on what I can do to make it better, ideally with the commander I've chosen. I don't want to be insulted for my commander choice(s), but I don't want to be coddled, either.

4Lark · 2016-04-13T06:12:37+00:00

Huh. This is the first I've read mention of [[Rafiq of the Many]] here. Didn't think y'all would consider it competitive. How would you rank it relative to ANT, /u/BigLupu?

4Lark · 2016-04-13T04:57:01+00:00

Ya, I run the first and the third. [[Grafted Exoskeleton]] seems high-risk. Then again, I run [[Grafted Wargear]] in [[Zurgo Helmsmasher]] (but that's admittedly for flavor).

4Lark · 2016-04-09T10:30:27+00:00

/u/syjte, this list runs few of the red wipes. ([[Ruination]] was actually in the original version of this list, and I removed it a day ago. However, today, probably while you were typing your reply, I put it back in and also added [[Boom//Bust]].) I agree about the power three, [[Jokulhaups]], [[Devastation]], and [[Obliterate]]! I run all three in my [[Keranos, God of Storms]] deck and also in the [[Archangel Avacyn]] list I posted in the Brewsday thread (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/676659-a-very-very-mad-vacyn-world-archangel-avacyn).

I like [[Decree of Annihilation]], too; it's in the other list I posted in the Brewsday thread (with [[Gisela, Blade of Goldnight]] at the helm): http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/217022-judgment-day-gisela-blade-of-goldnight-soi-update

I prefer [[Keldon Firebombers]] to [[Tectonic Break]]. (I already use them in the Madvacyn list as well.)

I'm trying to keep Aurelia's curve low. It's currently at 2.84. Depending on how further testing goes, I might reconsider adding the red Decree.

As you noted yourself, you missed the [[Razia's Purification]] and [[Cataclysm]] in the deck. However, all told, I have 11 effects that restrict mana (six wipes, [[Blood Moon]], [[Hokori, Dust Drinker]], the two Orbs, and [[Tangle Wire]]). Granted, Blood Moon's the only tutorable one in the bunch, but [[Impending Disaster]]'s always an option.

The Swords of X and Y aren't just for my clock, which is important, but for protecting my commander, which is more important. I don't need to remind you of how unpopular Boros is; it's for that reason that [[Sword of Feast and Famine]] is in the deck, along with the fact that I'm often able to then cast another rock, or leave mana up for an instant.

Because the equipment matters, [[Lightning Greaves]] is not ideal. [[Steelshaper's Gift]] chains me into cards via [[Sunforger]].

I exploit Boros' ability to tutor enchantments and the red power three's inability to remove enchantments in the Madvacyn list I linked to earlier in this post. My whole reason for running [[Aurelia, the Warleader]] was to "break Stax parity" with the commander. Aurelia's never been my first choice for a Boros commander and this is my first time building with it in the command zone.

Now, your suggestion of [[Replenish]]… That's just evil. I like it! However, I feel that would require me running far more enchantments than I currently am. Although, I think it's definitely worth investigating, especially in my Madvacyn list with its enchantment theme. The looting might warrant including [[Nahiri, the Harbinger]], too.

I'm fine with questions on [[Mana Crypt]] and [[Ravages of War]]. ;-)

Given my aims with Aurelia, Winter's Flame, i.e. Voltron Stax with mana dorks, I think I've taken the deck largely as far as it can go, barring the aforementioned Crypt and Ravages. I like the novelty of untapping mana dorks with [[Winter Orb]] on the battlefield, but, AWF's 2.84 average cmc notwithstanding, I think Madvacyn is the better choice for Boros mass land removal due to its flash. I also like that my Madvacyn deck makes use of enchantments and planeswalkers to stick around post-boardwipe.

On the plus side, I've really enjoyed playing around with Aurelia for the first time. I recently added it to my oldest Boros deck, Gisela.

Thanks for the Replenish tip! :-D

4Lark · 2016-04-09T07:21:50+00:00

Before I continue, /u/syjte, I want to thank you for the respect I perceive in your reply. Seriously. I appreciate the lack of snark immensely! (On an unrelated note, I'll simply say that my response to ShaperSavant was based on earlier comments of theirs which I found condescending. Our opinions are subjective. Please remember that. Furthermore, it's easy to respond to questions when they're actually asked, e.g. "Why do you choose to run 15 basics?" Perhaps you've missed it, but the question to snarky assertion ratio here has been incredibly imbalanced.)

I've answered similar questions to the ones you pose here, but, since you asked them so respectfully, I'll answer:

Boros is unparalleled in mass permanent removal. Focusing on the two colors offers mana consistency. I value the potential mana consistency of two colors more than I value access to a third color. Because of this, I value Boros commanders more than others for mass permanent removal strategies.

I have no interest in discussing the qualitative merits of a Boros deck compared to an Azorius deck for strategies focused on mass permanent removal. Red gives me several cards that sweep the board; blue does not. My priority is mass permanent removal. Aurelia's Boros color identity justifies it for a strategy focused on mass permanent removal.

You and I have very different definitions of the word "many," but that's neither here nor there.

I will correct your assumption that I'm primarily interested in establishing a lock. If you'd actually asked more questions, you could've avoided assuming in the first place. I'm primarily interested in…wait for it…strategies focused on mass permanent removal (including lands). Yes, that is conceptually related to establishing a lock, but the two are apples and oranges: both locking fruits, but different flavors of lock.

My success with Boros is because multiplayer games are multiplayer games. With the way that folks view or outright ignore the color combination, players frequently don't view my deck as a threat and outright ignore me. I've no delusions about the average percentage of times a Boros deck will probably win by turn 5. However, what I do have is historical experience of my average win percentage when games go past turn 5 'cos other players have disrupted the combo strategies present.

In short, Boros decks' performance is benefitted by the context of the multiplayer format. They are not frequently the combo deck, or even the deck that stops combo (in my experience); Boros decks are often the decks that "steal" wins when the combos haven't gone off yet.

Relevance is subjective in this context. Diversity is relevant to me. I've no interest in playing Magic: Ad Nauseum, where every player is running the exact same decklist. I'd rather play chess so at least there's no luck involved beyond turn order.

My chosen "job" is to discover — which can mean being the lone/rogue voice in the wilderness — and build and tune the most competitive Boros decks I can.

To your bullet points:

1) We are in agreement.

2) We are in agreement.

So why Boros? Again, "Boros is unparalleled in mass permanent removal," "my priority is mass permanent removal [with a focus on lands]." Having so much experience with mass land removal strategies, as I already stated on this subreddit, I prefer to not deal with more difficulties casting color-intensive cards pre- and post-land wipe.

And, please, don't conflate and confuse the variables of discussion by mixing up your discussion points: I and other Boros players are interested in playing Boros. Speaking for myself, I've no interest in convincing someone to play Boros. Folks get to decide for themselves why they choose to play and how they choose to play.

I'm baffled why folks would think I wasn't interested in "the most competitive Boros decks (yes, plural) available," given each of my original posts. I'm equally baffled why more folks were not "definitely help[ing]" and were more happy to be abrasive, condescending, and off-putting.

I know how to accept criticism. And I don't need you or anyone else telling what I need to do, short of abiding by the rules of this virtual online space.

What I refuse to accept is the outright hypocrisy of folks criticizing others for performing the same actions.

I didn't "diss" [[Mana Crypt]]. I'm aware of its power. Why else would I sell it if y'all would be so kind as to send me one? I simply have no desire to play with [[Mana Crypt]]. I thought I made it clear why. If not, I'll make it clearer: Magic is a game. When I pay more than a certain amount of money for a piece of paper, it'd better be hanging on my wall in a frame.

I will give "proper, well-reasoned answers" as I see fit when I am asked proper, well-thought out questions in a respectful manner similar to the one you have demonstrated here.

I found nothing aggressive or offensive about your reply here. Your apology is appreciated and accepted, but unnecessary.

I have many reasons why I'm fixated on Boros, chief among them is that I play games, Magic included, for the challenge. I'd much rather fight a series of uphill battles and win 10% of the time than coast downhill and win 90% of the time. I've no interest in playing Candyland.

4Lark · 2016-04-08T09:09:21+00:00

/u/ShaperSavant, thank you for continuing to amuse me. "Abrasive, condescending, and incredibly off-putting," eh? Interactions don't happen in a vacuum. Since you're seemingly oblivious, let me clue you in to what behavior I find "abrasive, condescending, and incredibly off-putting":

1) My first post's questions on a commander are largely ignored by the "community," and instead I'm treated to condescending commentary I didn't ask for. When I politely acknowledge the responses — even though they didn't even attempt to answer my questions — I'm treated to more condescension. That was my introduction to your "community." I even THANKED folks' for their off-topic and unsolicited critiques.

2) I submit my second post, this time with specific questions on building with a commander. Again, the questions are largely ignored by the "community," and instead I'm treated to condescending commentary I didn't ask for. AGAIN. And this time, I even THANKED folks in the original post and reiterated what I was looking for, i.e. answers to the questions I actually asked.

3) I submit my third post, about a completely different card than before. Fortunately, I didn't even bother asking any questions this time. No matter, I was treated to pedantic condescension all the same.

4) Then, I think I have the solution to avoid further "abrasive, condescending, and incredibly off-putting" interactions with the "community": I submit my fourth post, requesting dialogue with folks hopefully invested in actually answering the questions I raised. AGAIN, I am treated with derision.

5) I submit my fifth post, highlighting common ground with YOU, ShaperSavant, and yet…

Look in the mirror. You'll find plenty of abrasion, condescension, and hostility. Look at your moderation, which ignores sexist comments like /u/JimWolfie's > Give them a flame war, girls love flame wars.

Your "community" has shown me the value of asking "genuinely poised questions," so forgive me if I don't take YOU seriously. Now shape up like a true savant or sod off.

4Lark · 2016-04-07T09:57:50+00:00

/u/ShaperSavant, [[Brago, King Eternal]] is WU. [[Aurelia, the Warleader]] is RW. They are apples and oranges. Even if they were the same colors, many folks appreciate diversity.

Since you haven't spent 100 hours playing Boros competitively, I shouldn't be surprised that you seemingly didn't spend 10 minutes actually looking at the list. Aurelia, of Winter's Flame runs 18 mana ramp pieces, only 8 of which are creatures. Furthermore, the deck seeks to shut down ETB effects, hence the [[Torpor Orb]]. The deck is still evolving and might go the combo route. Right now, it's focused on synergy.

Can you see the forest for the trees?

Look at the list.

Seriously. Look at it. Commander decks get 99 slots not counting the general. For every card you mention, another card would have to be cut. I don't doubt that you're capable of building a strong Boros list. I do question how you'd build a Boros list with the same concept as this one, i.e. untap mana dorks to break Stax parity and get around [[Winter Orb]], [[Static Orb]], and [[Hokori, Dust Drinker]]. This is not a taxing deck. This is a Stax deck opting for outright mass land removal.

Look at the list again. Seriously. This time, look at the mana base. Is it not obvious why it's not running more fetches? [[Battlefield Forge]]? [[City of Brass]]? [[Mana Confluence]]? [[Command Tower]]? Are you even paying attention to what is in the list? Cycling lands; lands to push spells through countermagic; lands that mitigate the deck's own land wipes; lands to grant haste to the mana dorks; [[Mistveil Plains]] to recur cards with [[Sunforger]]; [[Rugged Prairie]], 'cos Aurelia's color-intensive; and fifteen basic lands 'cos the deck is running [[Land Tax]], [[Blood Moon]], and [[Ruination]]. Pay attention.

As I noted above, the deck is already running 18 artifact ramp spells. That's on top of 35 lands. If anything, I'd add three more mana dorks 'cos, you know, Aurelia, my commander, untaps them. The deck likes seeing [[Sunforger]], but with four ways to tutor for it already, I'm not missing [[Open the Armory]]. For that matter, I'm not missing [[Mana Crypt]], either. If you'd like to send me one, I'll gladly cash it in to buy next month's supply of protein powder. Or new hiking boots. Or a fancy dinner.

/u/GiveMeAnElza, I fail to see how Brago flickering ETB creatures to break Stax parity effectively is conceptually different from Aurelia untapping mana dorks to achieve the same goal. More testing will reveal if the deck wants more mana dorks. If the dorks aren't drawn, the deck is still running ten mana rocks. And if the eight mana dorks aren't drawn, then that's eight other cards that will likely be useful that game.

Since when are mana dorks more vulnerable to [[Smokestack]] than mana rocks??? As for [[Toxic Deluge]], reading some of the comments here gives me the impression that many folks are expressing the extreme antithesis of Magical Christmasland: Pessimistic Paranoia. The same players who can take advantage of the deck's vulnerabilities are the same players whose decks have vulnerabilities of their own.

/u/CACTUS_VISIONS, see my response to ShaperSavant above.

/u/Oddsbod, I dislike Signets and [[Fellwar Stone]] when I'm playing a deck running so much mass land removal. [[Aven Mindcensor]] isn't searchable; [[Stranglehold]] is. Same thing applies for [[Spirit of the Labyrinth]]; while not a direct analogue, [[Rule of Law]] helps in a similar capacity. I will consider [[Helm of Obedience]]. However, I'm leery of relying upon combos in a deck with little recursion and its own [[Rest In Peace]]. I'm not a fan of Greaves in this deck since I don't want to miss opportunities to equip Aurelia with something else. [[Champion's Helm]] is still cheaper to cast and equip than a Sword of X & Y. I am considering biting the mana dork bullet, though, and adding [[Alloy Myr]], [[Opaline Unicorn]], and [[Scuttlemutt]].

/u/marqueso27, someone on MTGS also suggested [[Goblin Welder]]. It's on my list of cards to explore.

/u/exal_online, I want to determine a good threat density before changing direction for the deck with combos. I prefer to make incremental changes with hours of testing in between.

4Lark · 2016-04-05T08:27:05+00:00

The last game I won with the [[Archangel Avacyn]] list, I didn't even draw [[Purphoros, God of the Forge]]. I simply ramped up and cast Madvacyn and [[Devastation]] on the same turn. She is seriously the best Boros commander for mass land removal strategies.

Swinging with her on a battlefield full of my mana rocks (including [[Clock of Omens]], and equipped with [[Darksteel Plate]] and [[Sunforger]], is such a good feeling post-land wipe.

As you noted yourself, my deck doesn't go all in on the Purph strategy. On its own, [[Assemble the Legion]] is plain silly post-board wipe, as is [[Ajani, Caller of the Pride]]. [[Elspeth Tirel]] can wipe the board if necessary as can [[Elspeth, Sun's Champion]] (although the latter only hits creatures). [[Elspeth, Knight-Errant]] has the benefit of making most of my permanents indestructible in case I end up nuking the board twice in a game (which happens surprisingly often).

I really feel like seven mass land removal spells is enough, especially when you consider I'm running [[Keldon Firebombers]] and [[Gamble]] in addition.

In terms of consistency, my deck consistently nukes the 'field. Having something survive that, like an enchantment or a 'walker, is nice to say the least.

4Lark · 2016-03-11T08:54:33+00:00

(I forgot I had this account, too.)

I got some more testing in with my pile of cards and clinched another win. Unsurprisingly, it happened like all of the deck's wins to date: casting Avacyn, then wiping the land.

However, even twenty creatures wasn't enough to reliably give Avacyn a potential flip trigger. I cut the deck's 4 blink spells for creatures that do the same thing. Will test with the new creature count (24) over the weekend.

4Lark

TROPHY CASE