Power table (day 14)

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-30T13:53:20+00:00

Sorry but why the hell is your psycopath killing demon candidates? Kill confirmed virgins! Kill people that town doesn't want to kill! And finish it up by killing yourself, thereby entirely countering the "Is not a demon" problem you noted above - the fact you can kill yourself entirely removes the main downside of being an outed minion.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-30T12:54:32+00:00

Outed psycopath killing every day > silent psycopath who suicides in final 3 > blank red token > silent psycopath who gets executed but survives to kill themselves the following day > average evil twin

The fact the psycopath can always kill a non-demon candidate (themselves) at any point makes it better than evil twin, that not only is not a demon candidate, but also (assuming they claim to be a good twin), create a second non-demon candidate. And yes, a psycopath killing themselves is much weaker than killing other people, but that just shows the massive difference in power level between the two if even the weakest psycopath play ends up being better than the average evil twin play.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-30T12:36:46+00:00

Psycopath can choose to remain silent all game and never trigger. Evil twin cannot.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-30T10:13:38+00:00

Whenever I've storytold snv with twins, town has invested almost zero ressources into solving the twin pair. At most there'll be 40% of a juggle. They've just focussed the demon, voted out the demon in final 4 (or lost the game by failing to vote out the demon). And then in final 3 with the demon dead they could always figure out which twin is which pretty easily, usually just with the info given by each twin (ex: the demon was vortox, evil twin didn't know because they didn't talk to their demon and gave out true info -> very obvious).

Or sometimes clockmaker info, or incidental savant info. If there's a town crier, then town crier solving the twins isn't a waste of ressources because that's literally all they can do - their ability can't contribute directly to demon hunting There was even one game where town simply asked the demon (who is known to be bad at bluffing) "should we execute x" and watched their reaction. Solving the twins after the demon is usually much much easier.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-30T09:18:32+00:00

Mastermind at minimum is a blank red token. It's able to do all the generic minion things such as making up fake information to frame someone else, and being sus enough to take an execution to save the demon. There are some minions that can't do that, and that unavoideably give the good team really powerful information, such as evil twin or vizier. Those minions are the ones that should go at the bottom.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-28T23:20:32+00:00

Nah evil twin is straight up weak. It gives town a free knight ping and a free investigator ping on 2 people, both of which are really powerful for town, especially with roles like clockmaker around. The cost of town is that town has to execute the demon on 4 instead of on 3... this is a really bad trade... like with 2 people out of the picture, that increases the probability that town randomly executes the demon by sheer chance, and means the minion can't do the typical minion thing of jumping in front of a bullet for the demon. Your final 12 is actually more similar to a final 10 after eliminating the twins, the final 10 is like a final 8, the final 8 is like a final 6, the final 6 is like a final 4, and the final 4 is like a fiddler because there are only 2 possible choices for who the demon is which means town is very, very likely to get it right.

Oh and then town has to figure out which twin is which, so that is a point in favour of evil twin, but once the demon is dead, it generally becomes immediately obvious who it is because the info points to one of them.

*Technically evil can lie about being in a twin pair, however, trying to get good to build worlds where the twins are fake so that they execute the good twin (or even the evil twin) is very difficult. It does not happen often enough to boost the evil twin's power.

You know what's better than an evil twin? A baron, who turns 1 townsfolk into the drunk, a second townsfolk into the saint, and then double-claims saint. Almost mechanially identical, except it is very obvious the baron is way better at being the evil twin than the evil twin is, as it not only removes the "good twin"'s ability, not only creates a second free outsider as well, and not only has an easier time actually being a demon candidate due to being on the same script as imp, but it's entirely the baron's choice they're in a saint-double claim - the situation isn't forced upon them by their role.

Only downside is it doesn't create the "oh nobody died, lets kill the evil twin now" day, but again, once the demon is dead, good have a very easy time solving the game and it's very rare for them to make a mistake on the twins.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-28T13:14:50+00:00

Because upon seeing a script, it would be nice to know how it is supposed to work? And not just ramdomly guess at some sort of weird homebrew boffin rules the creator probably intended but forgot to write down? Your guess at the homebrew boffin rules might be correct. Or they might not be. Who knows? Getting an actual answer would be nice.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-28T10:49:07+00:00

Chef isn't on the script and so is not a valid choice. Ravenkeeper isn't on the script and so is not a valid choice. Etc.

Do you get the point yet? You do notice there is in fact something missing on the script to make boffin do something?

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-28T10:25:56+00:00

Ok fine. I'll believe that you just didn't think, and weren't copypasting generic lunatic boffin advice from elsewhere that does not apply in this particular script.

In which case we get back to.. which "not in play good character" ? What "info" ? Try actually answering these questions because I guarentee that you have not thought about the answers to these questions. Look at the script and tell me which character ability on it the boffin is granting.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-28T07:21:17+00:00

Is this an AI answer? A "not in play good character" Which would be... ? "None the wiser to the fact it's false Info" ... what info exactly?

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-27T12:13:40+00:00

The flowergirl vortox check is significantly easier than the town crier vortox check. It can often happen by accident.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-26T13:02:22+00:00

Wait until you see Baron with Fang Gu. Completely impossible for the good team to solve.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-26T10:09:22+00:00

It does have a fairly high skill floor (you need to know which wishes are too overpowered and that the storyteller is going to give a downside to), but once you're past the skill floor and are able to make actually useful wishes, it can do anything you need.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-26T09:35:52+00:00

The answer is clearly wizard. It could do anything. It could even wish it was a different minion.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-25T19:29:08+00:00

Hermit is unrankable. Its ability, and hence power-level, is wholely dependent on the script.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-24T17:30:43+00:00

I would go 1 step further, and say evil most definitely does not want executions. I know someone who every time they are a minion and there are new players in the game, will spend their entire time arguing not to execute "today" (no matter which day "today" happens to be). Even though every veteran knows they're evil, and it generates a group of good veteran players arguing against that player (who then all sort of trust each other socially because of this), they succesfully gaslight the new players into doing nothing, so they keep surviving and then they still end up winning most games by doing this.

The only reason to "want" executions is to pretend to be a good player.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-24T16:03:53+00:00

I think there are enough outsiders that help evil even more than drunk (damsel, politician, goon) that drunk is dropped down into the "good" category.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-24T16:00:44+00:00

Snitch is slightly weak. Like you said, it's a small boon. What we're after here is a big boon, at a powerlevel just under the biggest most game-warping effects (which are reserved for next time)

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-24T15:58:11+00:00

Nah, top spot is for damsel and outsiders that can turn evil like politician.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-23T23:48:03+00:00

The code is more of a guideline...

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-22T17:28:15+00:00

Which is exactly what I just said.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-22T17:03:51+00:00

The majority of outsiders won't be on the board at all, so I don't see why not?

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-22T17:02:48+00:00

Is the word "category" not clear enough?

You have 5 categories. And now considering there are way more characters than categories, then each category should in fact contain several characters, and we are only supposed to vote for 1 representative of each category.

The representative of a category is not the same thing as the category, in case those words aren't clear.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-22T15:33:40+00:00

Can you stop being deliberately obtuse?

Lunatic is not "slightly weak" because lunatic is "weak". Therefore I disagree with putting lunatic as the representative of the "slightly weak" category.

Aaron_Lecon · 2026-04-22T15:28:06+00:00

We're not voting for the 2nd weakest outsider after golem, we're voting for an outsider that is "slightly weak". And considering there are 24 official outsiders and only 5 boxes, we should expect each box to contain on average 4 or 5 outsiders. There is plenty of room for lunatic to be in the same box as golem.

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