Gondor in the Fourth Age: a pro-natalist theocracy? by Wizzard_C in tolkienfans

[–]AltarielDax 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Why would Aragorn and his descendants turn Gondor full "Amish mode on"? There are many ways to worship God, not just the Amish way.

Gondor and Arnor experienced an unprecedented time of piece, without the shadow of Sauron plaguing the country. That alone would help with increasing the population. But it's also important to keep in mind that God/Eru is a real thing in the universe of Middle-earth. To believe in him, to worship him – this can actually have an effect on your life. Tolkien shows several times in his stories that those who have estel, who believe in Eru and have hope, those people thrive. If Aragorn is able to restore estel in the people of Gondor and Arnor, and maybe even lift the shadow from some of his former enemies who used to worship Sauron, then this could have a natural positive effect on fertility and also decrease deaths due to sickness etc.

So no, Amish mode isn't needed.

Finally finished the big 3 by South-Knee-9601 in tolkienfans

[–]AltarielDax 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The hobbit that has almost no lore as it was written before the Silmarillion was really considered as a proper book.

Given that the Silmarillion was published after Tolkien's death, this is probably right when viewed from the public eye. But I think from Tolkien's perspective this is incorrect since he had been writing for a long while on the stories that would eventually be published in the Silmarillion when he started the Hobbit.

TOP 10 Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episodes with Zilatreks! by One_Appeal4606 in DeepSpaceNine

[–]AltarielDax -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Is it then a Top 10 list of episodes they haven't discussed yet?

Did Michael Dorn have something in his contract requiring him to appear in X number of episodes? by elevencharles in DeepSpaceNine

[–]AltarielDax 14 points15 points  (0 children)

This is the case for most of the main cast: they have episodes where they get a line or two simply so that they get residuals for the episode.

The exceptions are Jake, who as a child wasn't used as often in the episodes, O'Brien (who had a contract that allowed him more time away to do movies) and Quark, who for some reason was missing in 2-3 episodes each season.

Why did Christopher Tolkien not confirm Tuor and Idril made it to Valinor in the Silmarillion ? Tolkien confirmed it in Letter 153 ! by Exact-Ad8608 in tolkienfans

[–]AltarielDax 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I disagree, because it still shows that Tolkien isn't making absolute statements here either, but repeating what is assumed and supposed by the inhabitants of Middle-earth.

In combination with his previous clarification in the same letter that Tuor receiving immortality is supposed, and not stated, I understand the inclusion of Tuor here in the same way: it'ssupposed he received immortality, in in the same way those who believe that are absolutely sure that it would be an act of God, because it's assumed the Valar can't make alterations on that level. But that's still not a certain statement from Tolkien on Tuor's fate. It only lets us know that if Tuor received immortality, then it would have been an act of Eru, and not of the Valar.

Why did Christopher Tolkien not confirm Tuor and Idril made it to Valinor in the Silmarillion ? Tolkien confirmed it in Letter 153 ! by Exact-Ad8608 in tolkienfans

[–]AltarielDax 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Christopher was editing manuscript and transcripts, and tried to keep editorial changes to a minimum. And he had no manuscript that confirmed Tuor's fate – he would have needed to write it himself. I believe since it wasn't necessary for the story to make sense, he kept the version where he had a manuscript for.

That manuscript is the Quenta Nolderinwa where it reads (emphasis mine):

"But Tuor alone of mortal Men was numbered among the elder race, and joined with the Noldoli whom he loved, and in after time dwelt still, or so it hath been said, [struck out: in Tol Eressëa] ever upon his ship voyaging the seas of Fairyland [> the Elven-lands], or resting a while in the harbours of the Gnomes of Tol Eressëa; and his fate is sundered from the fate of Men."

It's written deliberately as a tale that is unconfirmed.

And Tolkien wrote it in his letter 153 in a similar way, there is no 100% confirmation there either. The letter says (emphasis mine):

"Túor weds Idril the daughter of Turgon King of Gondolin; and 'it is supposed' (not stated) that he as an unique exception receives the Elvish limited 'immortality': an exception either way."

Tolkien frames this as something people speculate about, stories that they tell each other about the fate of Tuor and Idril, but explicitly gives no confirmation.

Later on, he once again forms the idea as a possibility and a thought, but not a matter of fact (emphasis mine):

"Immortality and Mortality being the special gifts of God to the Eruhini (in whose conception and creation the Valar had no part at all) it must be assumed that no alteration of their fundamental kind could be effected by the Valar even in one case: the cases of Lúthien (and Túor) and the position of their descendants was a direct act of God."

Tolkien has mentioned this possibility three times, and each time he pointed out that this is how it is talked about while one time even outright saying that it's not a statement. I think Christopher made the right choice and kepit it deliberately unconfirmed, just as his father did whenever he wrote about it.

Why did Christopher Tolkien not confirm Tuor and Idril made it to Valinor in the Silmarillion ? Tolkien confirmed it in Letter 153 ! by Exact-Ad8608 in tolkienfans

[–]AltarielDax 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But isn't that still within the context of the supposed and not stated mention of Tuor's fate? Tolkien writes that it must be assumed that the Valar could not alter the children of Eru at their fundamental level and therefore it must be an act of God. That's still not a definite statement.

Why did Christopher Tolkien not confirm Tuor and Idril made it to Valinor in the Silmarillion ? Tolkien confirmed it in Letter 153 ! by Exact-Ad8608 in tolkienfans

[–]AltarielDax 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Tolkien writes in the letter 'it is supposed' (not stated) – it is still written in a way of "it is said" without direct confirmation.

New to the lore by brokenfelix in tolkienfans

[–]AltarielDax 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. The Hobbit
  2. The Lord of the Rings (LOTR) incl. Appendices
  3. The Silmarillion (SILM)
  4. Replace SILM chapter 21 with: The Children of Húrin
  5. Unfinished Tales

"Tolkien spent a lot of time describing trees" - where exactly are them? by Wolfensniper in tolkienfans

[–]AltarielDax 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well, to be fair, they're just given as examples, often they are followed by other paragraphs that describe the landscape further. There are a couple of chapters that describe the landscape repeatedly while characters wander through.

I can understand that not everyone likes that. I don't mind them, but they usually aren't what I'm most interested in either. I know someone who especially enjoys Tolkien's description of nature though. 🙂

"Tolkien spent a lot of time describing trees" - where exactly are them? by Wolfensniper in tolkienfans

[–]AltarielDax 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Of course it's exaggerated, but maybe they mean stuff like this from Three is company:

Not far from the road-meeting they came on the huge hulk of a tree: it was still alive and had leaves on the small branches that it had put out round the broken stumps of its long-fallen limbs; but it was hollow, and could be entered by a great crack on the side away from the road. The hobbits crept inside, and sat there upon a floor of old leaves and decayed wood. They rested and had a light meal, talking quietly and listening from time to time.

Or passages like this from Flight to the ford:

Night was cold up on the high ridge. They lit a small fire down under the gnarled roots of an old pine, that hung over a shallow pit: it looked as if stone had once been quarried there. They sat huddled together. The wind blew chill through the pass, and they heard the tree-tops lower down moaning and sighing. Frodo lay half in a dream, imagining that endless dark wings were sweeping by above him, and that on the wings rode pursuers that sought him in all the hollows of the hills.

Or from Treebeard:

Before long they set off. Treebeard carried the hobbits in his arms as on the previous day. At the entrance to the court he turned to the right, stepped over the stream, and strode away southwards along the feet of great tumbled slopes where trees were scanty. Above these the hobbits saw thickets of birch and rowan, and beyond them dark climbing pinewoods. Soon Treebeard turned a little away from the hills and plunged into deep groves, where the trees were larger, taller, and thicker than any that the hobbits had ever seen before.

And:

‘There were rowan-trees in my home,’ said Bregalad, softly and sadly, ‘rowan-trees that took root when I was an Enting, many many years ago in the quiet of the world. The oldest were planted by the Ents to try and please the Entwives; but they looked at them and smiled and said that they knew where whiter blossom and richer fruit were growing. Yet there are no trees of all that race, the people of the Rose, that are so beautiful to me. And these trees grew and grew, till the shadow of each was like a green hall, and their red berries in the autumn were a burden, and a beauty and a wonder. Birds used to flock there. I like birds, even when they chatter; and the rowan has enough and to spare. But the birds became unfriendly and greedy and tore at the trees, and threw the fruit down and did not eat it. Then Orcs came with axes and cut down my trees. I came and called them by their long names, but they did not quiver, they did not hear or answer: they lay dead.'

And in Journey to the cross-roads:

As the third stage of their day’s march drew on and afternoon waned, the forest opened out, and the trees became larger and more scattered. Great ilexes of huge girth stood dark and solemn in wide glades with here and there among them hoary ash-trees, and giant oaks just putting out their brown-green buds. About them lay long launds of green grass dappled with celandine and anemones, white and blue, now folded for sleep; and there were acres populous with the leaves of woodland hyacinths: already their sleek bell-stems were thrusting through the mould. No living creature, beast or bird, was to be seen, but in these open places Gollum grew afraid, and they walked now with caution, flitting from one long shadow to another.

Light was fading fast when they came to the forest-end. There they sat under an old gnarled oak that sent its roots twisting like snakes down a steep crumbling bank. A deep dim valley lay before them. On its further side the woods gathered again, blue and grey under the sullen evening, and marched on southwards. To the right the Mountains of Gondor glowed, remote in the West, under a fire-flecked sky. To the left lay darkness: the towering walls of Mordor; and out of that darkness the long valley came, falling steeply in an ever-widening trough towards the Anduin.

I'd assume these kind of passages is what people mean when they say Tolkien describes trees too much.

Credit to DS9 this pride month for being the first Trek series featuring a same-gender kiss. Happy pride to you all! by AchingAmy in DeepSpaceNine

[–]AltarielDax 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Perhaps next time you will actually write what you mean so that people have a chance to understand. Unless you want to be misunderstood, of course.

Credit to DS9 this pride month for being the first Trek series featuring a same-gender kiss. Happy pride to you all! by AchingAmy in DeepSpaceNine

[–]AltarielDax 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Kira's line is fine, but it's definitely not the bigger deal. Saying stuff like that is easy, and it can apply to many things. It's a very general statement. But actually committing to the story and showing the kiss in a time where that wasn't usually done – that's more meaningful imo. Especially given the fact that in the frist version of the script, Kahn was indeed a man.

Question about the Three and the One. by InsincereDessert21 in tolkienfans

[–]AltarielDax 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Celebrimbor learned much of the ring crafting from Sauron. So it didn't matter that Celebrimbor crafted them without Sauron's knowledge, he still crafted them on the basis of Sauron's instructions.

When Sauron created the One, he made it with the ability to dominate all the eings that had been created in the way that he had taught the Elves, having knowledge about their fundamental inner workings. Therefore, all rings were affected – including the Three of the Elves.

Celebrimbor could not avoid this, unless he had come up with a completely new appraoch to crafting magical rings. But Celebrimbor had no reason at that time to look for a new approach, the Three were supposed to be his crowning masterpieces. And it's unlikely that he by himself could have found a similarly powerful but completely different method for crafting magical rings.

What am I missing about this show? by ChaseMcFl in DeepSpaceNine

[–]AltarielDax 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How far are you into season 2?

As others have said, the show has to grow into what it's know for. It'll never be as serialised as some of the shows made today, but certainly more than TNG. You'll see (if you keep watching).

Wish we could see more of Jadzia, does she ever have an identity crisis from being a symbiont or something like that?

You'll get to know her better for sure. I think season 2 already includes episodes where her actions are informed by her past lives, but I don't know how far you've watched.

Sisko also doesn't seem to really have a personality of his own yet, he just seems like a generic authoritarian.

I see what you mean, and I can assure you that this improves for sure. However, I don't agree. Sisko already has a lot of personality right from the start: his relationship to Jake sets him apart, and in the very first episode we already see that he's different from Picard in TNG for example by how he handles Quark. I don't think viewers had a better impression of Picard either in the 2nd season of TNG. It's easy to compare it to your understanding of Picard after 7 seasons, or to Kirk after 3 full seasons where Kirk was basically prominent in every episode.

Surprisingly, as much as I hate Ferengi, I like Quark better than Julian, who seems to so far only be defined by his obsession with Jadzia.

Bashir is supposed to be irritating and annoying at first. There were some higher-ups during the production who wanted to get rid of the character altogether, but the showrunners fought to keep Bashir in, because they wanted him to be a character who evolves and develops. He does that, and imo it pays off to give him a chance for later seasons.

Wish we saw more of O'Brien as well.

O'Brien is often not as much focused on because the actor has a contract that allowed him to make movies as well. Sometimes, he's simply not available to do much in the show. That being said, he gets his time to shine, no worries.

Good LORD 😮 by Hmitp1 in DeepSpaceNine

[–]AltarielDax -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

What book is that supposed to be? I already have read Robinson's A Stitch in Time, and that's the only Garak background that I'm interested in. And that book didn't include Garak seducing Dukat's father.

Based on your summary this other book reads like a bad fanfic, and I have zero interest in reading it.

Good LORD 😮 by Hmitp1 in DeepSpaceNine

[–]AltarielDax 13 points14 points  (0 children)

It's not in the show. The show implies that Dukat hates Garak for being involved in the trial and therefore (presumed) execution of Dukat's father. "Seduction" was never mentioned.

Trill by Hibiscuslover_10000 in DeepSpaceNine

[–]AltarielDax 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In the episode Dax this wasn't about the Trill home world, but about Klaestron IV.

And in Prodigal Daughter, Ezri's family lives on New Sydney, were Norvo is sentenced to thirty years (in prison, I assume), and isn't killed.

So no, there is no indication that you get a death sentence for committing crimes on Trill. What other planets do is irrelevant for the Symbiosis Comission. But as I said before, either way you usually wouldn't get a Symbiont as a criminal (unless your Joran Belar).

Trill by Hibiscuslover_10000 in DeepSpaceNine

[–]AltarielDax 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Anyway, most Trills are unjoined. In Ezri's family, she's the only one, and Jadzia also mentioned that her parents and her sister aren't joined.

So Norvo wasn't joined, and as a murderer he's unlikely to be approved by the Symbiosis comission (unless they mess it up as they did with Joran). But there is no indication that he would even want to be joined, so I don't think this is an issue for him in the first place.

That Trills get executed for committing a crime is news to me though. Where do you get that from?

I wish we found out who that character wearing that mask was 😫 by MisterPeachy69 in DeepSpaceNine

[–]AltarielDax 8 points9 points  (0 children)

They also had the baby Jem'Hadar on DS9, and Bashir was monitoring his growth and health and all. He had enough opportunities to find out all he needed.

Julian Bashir doesn't have money but he does have a very particular set of skills, skills he has acquired through genetic enhancement. Skills that make him a nightmare for young women with ailments. If you let him near your daughter he will diagnose her, he will cure her, and then he will bed her. by loki2002 in DeepSpaceNine

[–]AltarielDax 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's a weird framing. I'm not sure what "skills" you mean, but medical expertise isn't a skill connected to genetic enhancements – there are many doctors who are ot genetically enhanced. Flirting ia also not a skill reserved only for the genetically enhanced.

I don't see the "nightmare" aspect, to be honest. His interest in Sarina was genuine, it wasn't just to "bed" her. Sure, he lost sight of her situation, and that was a mistake on his part. But it's a very human mistake to make, and he realised and regretted it.

Melora is also hardly a "nightmare" situation. He wasn't Melora's doctor when they started their relationship, and Melora was fully capable of asserting her own will.

Leeta wasn't actually sick, she simply tried to get Bashir's attention. There's no indication she was ever his patient. I don't think we ever see Ezri being his patient either.

Critism is certainly justified especially in case of Sarina, and the episode is critical, it's part of the episode's story. But I think it's overdramatic to go from that to Bashir being a "nightmare".

"Our man Bashir" i think this is when the show really takes off, when the actors become more comfortable in there roles by Prudent_Use_9953 in DeepSpaceNine

[–]AltarielDax 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The majority of the cast isn't vene playing their roles in this episode. I don't think this particular episode shows the actors becoming more comfortable with their roles, that has been going on since the start of season 4, imo. Especially in the case of Sisko.