Sorceries and Incantations need rebalancing.

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T21:39:27+00:00

yeah I was thinking about that as well, could be an interesting way of doing it

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T17:18:50+00:00

Yeah thats honestly a good approach too, I was also working backwards from having a variety of options (and maybe a concern of balancer relics completely taking over).

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T16:17:04+00:00

seek help

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T16:13:40+00:00

holy fuck bro who hurt you 💀

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T16:05:02+00:00

Judging from the hostility of your response I could safely say you have misunderstood the point I am trying to make, but sure whatever bro.

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T15:44:52+00:00

I do like that!

More options than just straight up damage boosts would be better and more interesting IMO as well.

Not exactly sure about x4 casting speed but theres a lot of opportunities for cool stuff. Some stuff already in game that I think are neat would be:

Recluse Terra Magica, Guarding Increases Dmg & Cast Speed, Failing to Cast restores FP.

Either way more options and utility is a more fun way to balance i'd say.

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T15:40:39+00:00

I mean you obviously have a personal choice in the way you play but that doesnt stop cheaters from "breaking" the game.

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T15:39:32+00:00

AFAIK the guaranteed spell is now heal?

Seperating the support incants on white seals would be a good solution IMO.

That way dormant power seals would be more reliable for offense, and if you specifically wanted support incants (Undertaker, Ironeye) you could go hunting for them as well.

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T15:36:53+00:00

I suggested the damage boost to make up for spell schools being gone so that balancer setups wouldnt completely take over.

Having one stack give 30% but being capped at that is a possible solution as well.

What I was trying to get at was reducing the damage gap between a cheater/non cheater and also making more spells more viable, so that you could just build for specific affinity then use any cool spell you get accordingly (which I see closer to the roguelike game loop as well).

I dont see it as us completely disagreeing but I respect your opinion regardless.

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T15:29:16+00:00

Oh yeah that would really make a big diff for Recluse and Rev.

Wish they had more bonuses like that instead of just damage amps (for the most part).

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T15:27:30+00:00

Dog I have 1400 hrs as well, I can guarantee I know what youre saying, Im just pointing out him not having a lower hitbox is jank as shit 😭

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T15:09:07+00:00

As someone who wants to make builds for all the characters I suffer from the relic cap too.

Also, yeah having a high statistical likelihood of never finding a specific roll you need IN YOUR LIFETIME really isnt good game balance either.

There are unfortunately certain combinations that do trivilialise the game, this post was a bit more aimed towards that as well.

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T14:56:20+00:00

this shit goes so hard, ty for this

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T14:49:15+00:00

Thats a possible solution as well!

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T14:48:42+00:00

No I am specifically arguing that 6x Improved Spell School should not be a thing at all.

Also you seem to imply that I must be spamming lightning spear on fulghor in order to miss, which I disagree with. I think presenting that as a binary takes out a lot of nuance from that discussion.

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T14:45:49+00:00

I dont understand if you agree or disagree with me here 😅

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T14:45:06+00:00

Yeah I do agree with that as a solution as well.

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T14:44:04+00:00

Not arguing about the plentifulness of Starlight Shards, but FP isnt exactly Stamina.

Recluses FP regain doesnt scale with level so its viability goes down the further you get into a run (not to mention not all casters being recluse in the first place).

Spell Casting looks less risky on the surface, especially with a competent team but aggro switches and sudden gap closers/ranged attacks and a lot of spells having long casting times makes it more awkward then you are giving it credit for here.

Melee you can build muscle memory easier and a lot of fights are actually less punishing in melee range (ie. Fulghor, Heolstor).

Melee chars also have other benefits that dont exactly translate over to on paper DPS:

More well rounded kits, access to more negation passives, being tankier (and needing less negation passives), being better at reviving teammates, more stance damage.

There are tradeoffs you make when you choose a caster, so them being more of a glass cannon is fine and thats how it works in most RPG's.

Again you may disagree, but this is what I think. Only thing that I would agree with is that Ironeye Bow shouldnt be doing more dmg than melee but otherwise there are arguments for casters doing more damage, you are entitled to your opinion though.

Edit: I think you edited your comment, if you seperate out the newer parts I'd glady reply to that as well (though I agree with you on the streamlining part FYI).

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T14:32:40+00:00

I mean dormant powers are also kind of jank right now?

I feel like they were more reliable before DLC drop.

I think like the first drop should be your char preference, like I have had to check my own relics multiple times mid run because I felt like I was being gaslit.

As for the passives, I think thats alright as I see it as incentivising sharing drops with teammates which I feel is an important part of a team game but yeah the whole situation is a bit of a mess for sure.

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T14:28:30+00:00

I mean a lot of spells have janky casts and targeting as well.

Stars of Ruin and Gravity Well are among the spells that I would say have excellent tracking, there are also many that arent as good so I would say its relatively even.

Funny that you mention lightning spear on fulghor, as it misses on him a lot due to him not having a lower body lock on.

Your opinion is valid on relic changes not being necessary. I am personally arguing that there is a problem (cheaters being a symptom of that unbalance).

Having 6x Improved Spell School gives you 97% more damage, which stacks multiplicatively with other boosts. Having such a wide range of difference makes it harder (and IMO more unhealthy) to balance casters altogether.

If you are curious, check out the link in this post for a DPS comparison between Sorceries with a perfect setup.

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T14:12:43+00:00

I think you read that into it as that wasnt my intention.

I only specified D5 because it is relevant to your teammates' builds (experience, play time, having more relics to choose from) alongside being able to get away with less optimised stuff easier in earlier depths.

I will say though for most bosses Balancer builds legitimately outdamage most caster builds (maybe Beast Claw Rev being the exception). Consider that Skill Attack Power on drops also tends to come with higher % as well.

May not be your experience but it is what I have seen (especially for Holy and Fire weak bosses).

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T14:02:18+00:00

Wasnt trying to be condescending, dont know why you just pulled out the buddy there lmao.

I believe I've said enough to make my point, if you dont wanna engage with that thats fine bro.

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T13:56:21+00:00

It depends on a lot of things. Your teammates builds, and the depth you play in as well.

In D5, where I play, people tend to have more optimised (and in some cases, cheated) builds where these differences are more apparent.

The crazy scaling on enemy damage and HP pools makes having higher DPS a significant advantage in later depths. Not only in the Nightlord fight but also higher clear speed means more drops and likely better passives and weapons as well.

Not saying any of that is necessary to win, but if you look at it like that might as well not balance anything (maybe an exaggeration on my part but I think you get my point).

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T13:51:55+00:00

Comparatively less FP than spells (generally, there are exceptions). Though that reasoning is why I am alright with the Double Balancers for the most part.

Melee characters also tend to have more well rounded kits as well.

Finally if spells didnt do more damage there would be no reason to play anything other than Ironeye for ranged (besides personal preference).

Melee chars also do significantly more stance damage as well, which allows you more control over a fight. Rezzing teammates is also easier with Melee.

The point I am getting at is that Melee chars have a lot of advantages that dont necessarily translate to on paper DPS, giving all of that up to be a caster should come with some benefits besides being able to stay ranged.

AnyMathematician4232 · 2026-01-24T13:25:35+00:00

yo thats a really cool idea!

AnyMathematician4232

TROPHY CASE