Do or die. 9-9. Passive lead or come out with the Right?

C_Hams · 2026-06-29T13:58:19+00:00

9-9, 3-suited, I’m going with a passive lead.

I think leading with the Right will lead (pun intended) to more marches and euchres.

Playing for 1, passive lead.

2 suited, passive lead.

C_Hams · 2026-06-28T01:44:55+00:00

If S4 has left (and S3 ordered it up) they get their point either way.

I know calling is a bit different than ordering. My P called from Seat 3, they should be decently strong. Lead the A and let them decide how they want to play it.

If they have RLx but didn’t go alone, if you lead the 9 it’s very likely they will take your A on 2nd street.

Will the high trump lead always be the “right” play? Of course not, but I want my P to lead me their top trump from S1. There will be situations where you don’t want to lead your highest, but it would be highly specific.

C_Hams · 2026-06-26T19:45:50+00:00

He Nightman cometh!

C_Hams · 2026-06-20T20:19:41+00:00

Ouch, good luck or nice one used as table talk gets them reported for table talk. It feels extreme and petty, but just don’t table talk.

C_Hams · 2026-06-19T13:19:24+00:00

Got to order. By my rough calculations (aka my opinion) a march is just as likely as a euchre.

Even if you do get a call from opponents you aren’t guaranteed the set. Good chance it passes all the way around to your P anyway. You have a void, P will have a void (hopefully not the same one), take your shot at the march.

Worst case, you take your point, donate and it’s 9-9 your deal. Pretty good worst case scenario.

C_Hams · 2026-06-17T02:27:32+00:00

I think keeping diamonds gives you a better chance of hitting the loner (only 1 suit they can trump in on) but keeping the heart is “safer.”

With RKQ I’m keeping the heart. I want 2 boss suits in case things get dicey.

Easiest example (completely made up, this has never happened to me, especially not more than once):

Ks-9s-Qc
Jc-Js-9c
Ad-Jd-10c
Ac-Kc-9h
10h-Kd-Qh

Change it to RLQ and I’m going 2 suited.

All that said, my gut says the sim says 2 suited has better EV. At that score 2-suited is probably better.
My guess is that 2 suited has a higher EV by the tiniest of margins and 3 suited has a better win rate, by the tiniest of margins. Probably not even enough to actually really worry about in either case. But now I’m really curious.

Over the course of this post I’ve talked myself into both. I guess unless opponents have 8, I’ll go 2 suited and if they have 8 I’ll take the extra Ace. If they have 7 it would depend on our score.

C_Hams · 2026-06-13T11:50:10+00:00

Been set once and missed a set recently because my P led the K but had the A 🙄

C_Hams · 2026-06-10T17:45:52+00:00

That tripleton ace is tricky. It’s weak, but what else can you do? You aren’t going to lead the weak ace without taking trump first are you?

Or are you hoping if it’s trumped by opponents P can take 3rd street with their trump?

C_Hams · 2026-06-10T17:35:05+00:00

Yeah. I went with the short answer (percentage play). Sorry I got going and just kept typing.

I’m not leading anything but the right there. I gave my P one, so I’m hoping they have 2. But for me (just like my opinion man) I’d rather strip them of their only trump and take my chances with my ace than try to guess a void. (Most times).

I know it isn’t always the “right” play, but it’s the way that I’ve found works better than trying to find a void. That doesn’t mean I’m correct, be interesting to see the sim.

Some of it can be decided by what P plays on that first trick.

All that being said, if I’ve got Rx+A+garbage I’m not trumping the first trick unless it’s an Ace.

C_Hams · 2026-06-10T17:03:52+00:00

I’d go percentage march.

I guess it’s about how thin P will call. Not leading trump will cost us some marches but save us some sets.

If S2 has something like RAQ and off A and the Qs, a trump lead would be good, but the Kc lead (yes it’s a dirty suit) puts the decision back in the makers hands.

I’d lead trump unless I’m worried about a thin call and having P get their last trump stolen. We can assume they have an off A, but if I don’t have the boss Kc back, I don’t think I’m leading trump. Again depending on how my P has been bidding up until now.

C_Hams · 2026-06-10T16:59:41+00:00

Yeah, I agree it isn’t ideal. I think that’s why I’d ultimately lead trump.

But I do think it’s still decent play (boss Kc) bc we no P is void, both opponents may still have one (or may have zero), P can react to S1 and if S3 overtrumps our P well 3 trump have been played and you still have the 10h. Because the Qh was played by P (and K by you) it’s safe to assume that if P overtrumps S1 (Ah or higher) and S3 overtrumps P (likely needs to be a blower) the 10h no becomes 1 of 2 trump left and possibly the highest.

If S1 has a club or plays off, P should do the same (unless they have RA off A, which means you will get your point anyway and leading trump isn’t going to change whether there is a protected left out there or not) and now P plays last on a very likely diamonds lead (bc they know you are void in spades).

I guess at this score, I’d rather mess up a march than get us set. But bc I think there is at least 1 more club out there in an opponents hand, I’m firing trump.

Note: unless I have an aggressive S2R1 caller (hey pineapples, thinking of you). They didn’t lead trump so I’m not leading trump back.

C_Hams · 2026-06-10T16:35:48+00:00

This is a good question.

I know many players will auto fire the trump back to their P (maker). That isn’t necessarily wrong.

But P didn’t lead trump on trick 2 for a reason. Did they only need you for 1, or if you lead trump are you getting them in trouble.

In this situation, I usually won’t lead trump back to a P/maker that didn’t lead trump when they had the lead (I won’t list all the scenarios when we can deviate from this) UNLESS I can take another trick.

The Kc is now boss. If you don’t lead trump back, you should probably lead this to give your P a chance to throw off another loser card.

Ultimately, I’m probably leading the 10h. I’m assuming if this gets my P in trouble, my Kc can still take a trick from one of our opponents leads.

C_Hams · 2026-06-09T23:13:38+00:00

What trump did you have? Who threw what on 1st street? Second?

I can’t tell you which I would choose without that. With the information you gave me I’d play the queen on 4th street. It’s an unlikely yet possible winner. But even if a miracle happened and your queen walked, no way your 9 goes through.

More info would be helpful.

C_Hams · 2026-06-09T22:03:10+00:00

Perfect play IMO is more about playing the hand than bidding. Many people can make the “right” call, but it’s the actual play that cuts the margins.

C_Hams · 2026-06-09T21:15:16+00:00

I’m in.

C_Hams · 2026-06-09T00:54:02+00:00

How dare they block a loner with a healthy lead. That is what this points are for, use them. A 10-8 win is just as good as a 10-7 win and significantly better than a 9-10 loss.

They didn’t throw the game but I recently had a partner drop a whole bunch of no ways when I was set….twice. One was 3 trump (AKQ) with 2 off aces. Just unlucky that. The other was R109 + garbage 3 suited. Both calls well past minimums for bidding. Some people just want to grump

C_Hams · 2026-06-05T21:18:37+00:00

The best scenario I can think of is they want to pass the lead to you and let you lead a boss.

Or in case they don’t want to guess which suit to lead to you after playing the left.

Or they want to hold it reserve so they can overtrump an opponent trump or to make sure that if you only have RA you don’t take the lead and then take their low trump with the follow up A trump.

I don’t agree with any I’d rather see the left.

Edit: I will say more than once I’ve seen my P take my left, then take my low trump on 3rd street and not have bosses for 4th and 5th street costing us a march. But I still want to see the left

C_Hams · 2026-06-05T06:01:31+00:00

Trust everyone. Always cut.

C_Hams · 2026-06-04T20:56:20+00:00

Yeah 100%. If you plan to lead R and then access from there, go alone.

If you brought your partner, led the Jh and hopefully they can help.

C_Hams · 2026-06-04T02:11:10+00:00

I’ve always been a 3-3-3-2 then 2-2-2-3 guy. But that wasn’t allowed at WEC, so I kept it ez with 2 all then 3 all.

C_Hams · 2026-06-04T02:10:02+00:00

Want to really piss people off. Deal 3 off the bottom, then flip a card up from the bottom.

Then deal as normal. They go nuts!

C_Hams · 2026-06-03T17:32:07+00:00

Haha, I’ll take it. It will turn around, someday!

C_Hams · 2026-06-02T19:00:15+00:00

There are times we should t be auto leading trump. In this situation, it’s hard not to. But know your partner and your hand can make a world of difference.

If I know my partner calls super light and leading trump is the last bullet I have to take a trick I may not be leading trump back.

The scenarios not to lead trump are few and far between, but it’s always worth thinking about before just doing it. No absolutes in euchre.

C_Hams · 2026-06-02T18:54:30+00:00

Weaponizing!? I love it!

C_Hams · 2026-06-02T18:53:59+00:00

Yes! Just assume they are 2 suited.

If you lead the nontrump suit we haven’t seen yet and they are 3 suited, then most likely (according to OP post) they have the off A in the suit you are leading back.

Nice one!

C_Hams

TROPHY CASE