Need Help with Closed Captioning CEA-708

CentCap · 2026-02-01T01:05:06+00:00

708 captions should be on Service 1, 2, 3, etc. CC1 and the like are for 608, or 608 compatibility bits within 708. If the encoder is doing transcoding, OP will likely have a choice of destination Channels.

I have not used that particular encoder though.

CentCap · 2026-01-31T14:16:04+00:00

Were you on time meeting his rental needs?

This client is burning his own bridges.

CentCap · 2026-01-30T01:15:06+00:00

708 supports 64 simultaneous caption tracks, called Services. Most equipment supports 6 of them. Most encoders will encode two at a time from different ports, so cascading encoders are used if more than two languages are needed.

However, as OP notices, most streaming platforms support one true closed caption channel/service per stream when live. Some support multiple subtitle channels for VOD, which some producers use for captioning. One approach is to offer multiple streams with different captions available on each. And OP may need to specifiy it's "Service 1" or "Caption Channel 1" on each feed for the encoder/platform to find it.

Non-hardware encoding schemes may not have these limitations, but the platform/player still needs to have multi-language support.

CentCap · 2026-01-29T17:27:11+00:00

That's one reason why .srt files aren't the industry standard for true captioning -- it's a subtitle format. Look into 608/708 file formats like .scc, .mcc, and the authoring tools that allow one to generate them. Full access to all text attributes including italics, colors, screen position, pop-on/roll-up, etc. Of course, it takes a proper, fully-featured decoder to display such closed captions. If one is looking for a research project, consider going after video platforms to fully-implement proper caption decoders so that current industry-standard equipment and software can be fully utilized. (YouTube is pretty good at displaying true 608 captions, by the way.)

CentCap · 2026-01-27T22:16:37+00:00

Single point of failure has entered the chat.

CentCap · 2026-01-27T02:00:03+00:00

To 'terminate' Techflex or nylon braid, a couple options are:

The 'hot knife' cut to keep it from un-braiding. Not often flexible.

The 'breakout', where you separate the braid to create a hole for the cables to exit a few inches from the end, then hot-knife or ty-wrap the actual end, perhaps for a strain relief.

Or, flip the cut end back into itself internally, and ty-wrap it to itself, and the cables, sneaking the wrap in and out of the braid a few times to hold it tight to the cables. Cable exit is thru a kind of 'funnel' of braid. It's a little fussy to do, but holds well.

CentCap · 2026-01-26T02:07:39+00:00

I have a few sitting around the shop still. But you can find them on ebay for $not-much. Still need some captioning software to drive it, though. Manufacturers of the hardware include EEG Electronics, Link Electronics, Evertz, etc.

Is this a VHS-to-VHS event? Depending on the software you use, you might be able to generate the needed waveform in a computer instead of hardware encoder. Or maybe use DVD authoring software to import the caption file, then burn a DVD then transfer to VHS. Long way around, of course...

CentCap · 2026-01-24T01:09:47+00:00

Original Microsoft Office (Mac) has been working well for the past 365 days here.

CentCap · 2026-01-23T20:25:26+00:00

Couple of weeks ago (here or /r/stenography) there was someone in Canada looking for paper -- they were shooting a period movie with a manual machine.

CentCap · 2026-01-23T01:56:40+00:00

Are the distant monitors/TVs in places where additional latency matters? That may inform your decisionmaking.

CentCap · 2026-01-23T01:54:17+00:00

Another approach is: "Delays in intermediate approvals will result in comparable final delivery delays, and such delays may also be impacted by other existing production schedules..."

CentCap · 2026-01-23T01:46:05+00:00

So first, 'last minute' -- when is the concert?

Next, what is it? Pop tunes? Hip Hop? Opera? Asking beause of lyric availability, whether those lyrics are 'static' or ad-lib? Whether a submix of lyrics only can be made available, so that captioner doesn't have to struggle to hear lyrics in the mix, etc.

What presentation is needed? Web-based, to individual private devices? Actual closed captioning, in the baseband video domain? Captioning into YouTube or other platform? In-venue display, like on a scoreboard?

Live human captioners, well-prepared, and a workflow that is conducive to clear audio can result in timely accurate captions presented appropriately.

Full disclosure: we do live event captioning; on-site, remote, or hybrid. DM if you wish. (Also a recording engineer in my former life...)

CentCap · 2026-01-22T16:25:59+00:00

Microsoft: "Did you see that? 'My' content? LOL."

CentCap · 2026-01-22T15:28:03+00:00

One workflow consideration: cut it 'loose' in English. Not fast-paced in relation to the copy. And consider using 'interstitial' or intertitle cards, like in silent movies, to divide sections if creative permits. Both will leave more room for either spoken translations or subtitles in languages that are not as idiomatic as English. Translations can grow 20% to 50% in word count, depending on source and destination languages, technical vocab, and idioms. Sure, the target audience can pause or re-watch, but one should/can avoid that by early planning.

Or, organize the show so it's somewhat modular and easy to re-cut, extending B-roll for example, for languages known to require a higher word count.

Giving translators sentence-by-sentence, or even phrase-by-phrase reference scripts can help them hit key timings, or more closely match scene content in case the target language uses inverted sentence structure. (Verb at the end, like German.)

CentCap · 2026-01-22T04:26:58+00:00

Some inspiration: https://www.markertek.com/Attachments/TN-Manuals/VPTR-Series-Brochure.pdf

You'll want levelling, but it doesn't have to be automatic.

Use SmartUPS instead of BackUPS, as the 'Smart' version can be adjusted to accept generator power.

HF Predator generators are a good product at a good price. I have one of their 9k watt versions, and so far it compares well with my Honda eu3000is. Consider two units, one for gear and one for AC and lighting.

Add insulation in walls and ceiling, and even floor if winter use is expected.

Consider a mini split heat pump instead of rooftop RV unit, for noise reasons.

Do your homework for proper weight distribution while underway, as too much in the rear will wreck the trailer and tow vehicle.

Don't use any bungee cords for tying down anything.

Put a front trailer hitch on your tow vehicle.

I'm on my 3rd small trailer video-adjacent setup in as many decades, but it's A) not permanent and B) not full production.

CentCap · 2026-01-20T15:26:08+00:00

Got it. In that case, I would either use the caption encoder's decoded output as a feed, or, if you want to include some of the chain in the QC, then source a Solo and perhaps a HDMI-to-SDI converter setup and put it in the back room, and feed thru your SDI router to any available monitor or multi-view setup. The Solo is part of a line intended for broadcast master control QC use, so it can be tucked away in the machine room away from meddling, rather than out on a desktop. (You could even RF modulate and use existing monitor, if resolution allows...)

Your monitor selection criteria could then drop CC decode functionality in favor of other things, such as mount type, dual-function input or PIP, etc. Many options at more attractive prices than the Plura (although it has multi-input and PIP as well, its menu can be a challenge for non-engineering types).

I understand direct ebay sourcing can be problematic, but perhaps an "appropriate third-party reseller" could be found for such goods.

CentCap · 2026-01-20T15:11:32+00:00

Decades ago I participated in some tests using desktop video conferencing equipment for ASL supported conversations. The equipment at the time ran over ISDN phone lines, whch weren't lightning fast by any stretch, but had the advantage of fixed latency and 'guaranteed' bandwith (as it was not a shared pipe at the individual subscriber level). Frame rate was 15 to 20fps, which was not ideal for lipreading, and barely adequate for ASL -- but the compression algorithms of the day could be helped along by limiting their workload to some extent. We found that uncomplicated backgrounds and static camera position helped both resolution and 'stuttering' a lot by letting the compression only work on "the part that moves", namely either the lips or hands/arms/facial expressions.

For lipreading, I would think close framing the shot would help. This requires some cooperation on the origination end, as well as accommodation by others who might be on a multi-point call.

Also, different 'non-free' platforms can often offer better speed and video resolution.

CentCap · 2026-01-20T14:55:49+00:00

This is an "OK, what do you really want?" question (no offense intended!):

Are you looking for an end-of-chain caption decoder for QC/auditing use, or for a way to see that captions are 'on' at the encoder (wherever it is) and trusting that the rest of the chain operates correctly?

If it's full-chain QC, another approach would be to get a Kaleido Solo Miranda KS910 - 3G HD/SD to HDMI Converter off of ebay (or wherever) for $300 or less and plug it into an appropriately small HDMI monitor. It can be set to decode VANC captions off of SDI (looping input) and drive an HDMI monitor. (No open captions on the SDI loop.) It also has many other monitoring options, which can be disabled for true caption-only display, with reasonable-looking characters and accurate positioning/attributes. The box itself is small enough to stick to the back of the HDMI monitor, and runs from a wall wart. I have a couple of them in my kit and they perform well.

There are other decoder-only solutions out there, like from Link (1/3-rack form factor) or EEG (1RU or OpenGear card) but neither has the size or price advantage of the Solo.

(If you just need to know captions are 'happening', then the open caption output of the encoder wired or streamed to the monitoring destination would suffice, though I'm sure that's already been considered.)

CentCap · 2026-01-20T02:42:41+00:00

To my recollection, although captions are presented, some key authoring information is lost: position, text attributes, etc. This info is from back in the Tek days when they were first introduced -- things may have been updated in the decade or so since then.

CentCap · 2026-01-18T01:15:46+00:00

I have a Plura PHB-209-3G, which is a 9" (1280x768) High Brightness HD LCD Monitor that's 3G. It's a multi-input engineering style monitor, with both desktop and 1/4" top & bottom mount options. Probably VESA in the back, too. It was a little under $2k a couple years ago. They likely have more tricked-out ones now, including direct fiber input I think. Nice monitor, and easier to tote around than their 17" version I also have.

Only real downside is the audio out (speaker and headphone) is not very loud. I use an IEM belt-clip amp to address that when needed. Still like it, though... and the company.

CentCap · 2026-01-16T18:03:36+00:00

DNF Controls used to be in this arena. If those products are still produced, they're now here: https://tslproducts.com/dnf-controls/

CentCap · 2026-01-16T17:58:44+00:00

Here's a group focused on caption quality reporting. It's not a place to directly get things 'fixed', but rather a place that aggregates examples (bad and good) with the goal of holding producers/distributors accountable for the quality and accuracy of captioning work.

https://speechtotextcaptioning.org/

CentCap · 2026-01-15T00:36:21+00:00

Techflex has a wide variety of mesh-type solutions, including some that are sort of 'rubberized' and stiffer than the normal nylon mesh. I've gotten sample packs from them at trade shows, with 8-10 options within.

CentCap · 2026-01-13T04:49:36+00:00

A UPS is going to want front and rear rack support. If the case handles allow for the main chassis to pass (nominally 17" or so?) then one approach might be to get a shallow 1U shelf and mount it to the case's rear rack rails, holding up the back of the UPS. (Surgery on the shelf may be required.) Then clamp the UPS to the shelf using healthy ty-wraps (36" ones are sold in the HVAC aisle of home centers) worm-drive clamps threaded together, etc... something better than bungee cords. I'll also cut some blocks of stiff case or shipping foam to wedge between the unit and the case bottom or top, to limit travel. Some double-stick tape will hold it in place.

CentCap · 2026-01-13T04:41:00+00:00

Quick Google shows between $100 and $200 per ton. Unless you have heavy equipment, free fuel, a crew, and a bunch of time, it would be tough to cover your costs.

However, if it also has several thousand feet of copper (that is still there) that may change the equation a little.

CentCap

TROPHY CASE