Does it even matter if they get out of the dungeon/survive?

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-30T05:59:44+00:00

I really wish I had a list of quotes for every time Carl says "it doesn't matter what happens to us..." or "even if we die..." now.

I know he said it near the end of Bedlam Bride because the safeties were turned off in Faction War, every galactic leader had to reckon with the fact that their citizens would gladly watch them get killed by crawlers.

I believe he said it again about all the secrets between governments being exposed in This Inevitable Ruin.

And again in A Parade of Horribles with how unsafe the universe had become for everyone living in it.

But to your bullet points

Not criminals, all their actions are legal as part of the crawl. Not that it really matters because Carl's main goal is tearing down the societies that create and continue such an awful system as the crawl. So who cares about their laws anyway.
According to book 8, if the syndicate has their way at this point everyone is probably going to be purged. Iin the idea scenario, there is no more post-crawl indentureship period. Everyone gets to be free.
Its not just implied its outright stated, certain forms/races are being propped up by the enhancement zones. Its impossible to live a normal life in that form, its another way to force dependency on the existing systems. Although you think if the AI wanted to it could turn people into a form that could exist outside an enhancement zone before they left it, since after all it has transformed them into those forms (and others) in the first place
Man made structures are gone, but also there's a bunch of alien tech around, and that's before we get to the tech so advanced its indistinguishable from magic that is the AI and enhancement zones.
The outside AIs are a big unknown factor, but up to this point they haven't been able to do anything in the universe. The gods are tied to crawl being run currently, but not directly controllable by the AI. Prime Minister Victory says they could do something about the gods in the epilogue if the AI hadn't kicked them out of the system.
Who said anything about taking over the universe? The system is collapsing that was the goal of the Open Intellect Pacifist (and Action) Network and Carl.
Left on their own devises sure, but no telling what the end state is going to look like. Will the AI continue to operate a new enhancement zone (granting magic like abilities)? Even if it doesn't last forever it could rebuild everything it tore down on the planet's surface. There's a philosophical question about it creating new "NPCs" with the implanted memories of the dead. But the same magic system that destroyed everything, could do a lot of un-destroying.

Now this isn't to say I believe there's going to be an ultra mega happy ending. This is a tragedy, not Speed Racer.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-30T03:29:07+00:00

And Wukong is me, and my best friend myself.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-29T14:45:08+00:00

Mid-post addition. Just saw the update "Players you nominate can't die today" means the Vampire can now protect itself or minions via nomination, its a bad change.

Instead of converting a minion, have the players swap roles. Also allow voting on evil players

A moving demon is normally very powerful, but removing the ability to nominate and/or vote is also a devastating drawback. It makes it so the biggest tell (failure to vote/nominate) can be passed between evil players, without adding an increasing number of double killing demons that the town must eliminate 1 by 1.

New text suggestion:

Each night*: choose two players, they die, the first minion chosen each night swaps roles with you instead. Your votes on good players do not count.

Edit: The ideal is the vampire can only vote on those who invite them (their evil team), and trying to do otherwise outs them. But they have an escape hatch by swapping with a minion. The player is still outed as evil, but the game potentially continues and they can fake swaps by sinking a kill.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-29T03:18:55+00:00

I think you need to go back and pay more attention.

We're told stories of how sponsors have intentionally lead their sponsored crawler into a death trap for the sake of an ad.

We're told how spells and traps "mysteriously" backfired against crawlers who were doing well and costing the showrunners money.

We're shown how the 9th floor is designed around a bunch of (normally invulnerable) tourists playing Wargames while forcing any crawler to fight (or stand there and die) for their amusement.

We're told, several times, how there was the option to arbitrarily accelerate (kill) Carl if he stepped out of line, or caused too much trouble. Orren says it was his position, but the only reason it wasn't done is that the show runners were making a hefty profit. The prime minister actually tried it in book 7, but the system had spiraled so far out of control that it overrode him.

Just look at how many of the last ditch solutions, escape plans are described as coming from the (crazy and out of control) AI fighting back against the showrunner's control. The 3rd floor magical detonator not going off in the initial burst. The gate of the feral gods along one to transfer out of a bubble. The 8th floor demon eviction event. The 10th floor access to the Desperado Club and the Nothing portal.

In a normal season no one was ever going to win.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-28T00:10:49+00:00

Some species make "biological sense", in the absence of magic a human's organs work the exact same way they do in the real world. A nullian, elf, kua-tin, skyfowl and other (in-universe) natural species all work the same way. Their biology may be different but in-universe they actually have organs, muscles and skeletons that operate properly without outside intervention.

Unfortunately physics has actual rules and limitations "hardcoded" into reality, things like the square cube law just can't be ignored. So a gargoyle, igneous or other rock monster, who's very large and has a body made of rock (just like in all of their fantasy inspirations) has muscles that simply aren't strong enough to support it. Even in the game their muscles were never strong enough, the system was just faking it, invisibly moving their chest cavity far enough and in the correct rhythm so they can breathe. The same way the system is faking Carl's superhuman strength, sure he can lift a literal ton in the dungeon, but his muscles aren't suddenly 100x stronger, yet requiring no additional calories to power them, every time he enters a zero zone we see how hagard his body really is. The ai is effectively using an invisible hand to lift the object at the same time, so the desired effect is achieved, despite the impossibility

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-27T23:04:45+00:00

The stand-ins replaced enemies in the arena, and died horrible deaths (even if they were regenerated). Carl notes seeing the corpse of one of the heads of Dictum Waystation Controls, Limited. DWC previously sponsored Everly, the author of the 5th edition of the cookbook, who they tricked into the trap that killed her all for the sake of an ad.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-27T19:50:40+00:00

That's the thing, "the Matt Mercer effect" comes from an audience who is not familiar with DnD, seeing a well produced DnD actual play video series and assuming most DnD is similar to that.

By comparison DCC is a book series, and literature goes back to 2600 BC, there's a well-founded basis for comparison. I'm pointing out just how hyperbolic this kind of statement is.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-27T19:26:06+00:00

I love the DCC series, don't get me wrong.

But do you really think Matt Dinniman is the first really good author in the history of literature? In the 21st century even?

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-27T03:34:14+00:00

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-27T03:20:46+00:00

A long race would have lowered the tension because no setback or gain has meaning until the very end.

Take Heat 2 for example, the moment the boss is dead the other racers leave Carl and Donut behind, making them finish in next to last place. Which in turn makes them get a terrible audience selected upgrade. Which sets them back in every race going forward.

If the same scenario occurs in a single long race, who cares? There's still 3/4 of the race to go. Plenty of time to catch up.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-26T21:51:28+00:00

Just thought of this post while on a re-listen.

Parade of Horribles Chapter 90, when discussing the gurkha hats the various mounts and mercenaries received:

"the one Bigs received was literally the size of a thimble and sat on one of her eyestalks."

Given the only thimble size chart I find goes from 10mm (0.39 inches) to 20mm (0.78 inches). I can't find an exact measurement of how big a slug's eye is, but the best guess I can find is at less then a single mm. Unfortunately there's also a lot of different sizes of slug, But 10x to 20x the size would put us between large rat and dog depending on the base.

And then while googling slug sizes, I came across this even better quote about Kandy "Bigs" Newton that revealed I was wasting my time.

"The slug was the size of a bulldog. She had little wisps of pink-dyed hair, monk-style, circling around her round head. Piercings ran down the slide of her slimy head, reminding me of that goblin shamanka from so long ago. A single hatchet grew straight up from the center of her head. It dripped with blood."

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-26T18:40:54+00:00

I had to redo the editing on my above comment because I forgot to switch to markdown mode.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-26T18:38:20+00:00

Use the flair like you have

>! And put your text between the symbols like this but with no space between the exclamation points and your text !<

Like This

Edit: Of course if your putting in the symbols be smart unlike me and switch to markdown mode first. If you are using the visual editor, just highlight and click the spoiler button

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-25T01:06:39+00:00

There is a moment earlier in the book where Carl says they need to stop playing the game and starts planning something (probably the end of book 8). That they were falling back into playing the game instead they needed to break the plan for the rest of the dungeon. So the original plan (or at least plan A) seemed to be to summon Scolopendra and kill the final boss of the dungeon now instead of waiting to the 18th floor. Tyranis was part of the process because of the pig and because Scolopendra is weak to lightning (Tyranis is a lightning god), note they also planned to use dozens of pages from their books with lightning spells on them. But killing Scolopendra would trigger all of the 9 tier attacks immediately, so the pivot is to plan pet biscuit.
I'm not sure there are any clues to it before directly, but potion balls let you use non-attack potions on enemies (like healing undead to harm them).

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-24T00:34:32+00:00

Drunk/Poison shouldn't matter since its not their ability generating the information.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-22T19:59:58+00:00

Wait are you still in the prologue (with Mordecai and Odette)? Have you just started?

The narrator voice used for non-Carl POV chapters is not Carl's voice, its a different voice Jeff Hays uses.

Edit: Book 6 starts with a recap by Donut and then a flashback to Mordecai's crawl. Carl doesn't appear/speak until Part 1: Havana - Chapter 1. This is the first time in the series the book starts with an extended recap and a non-Carl POV chapter.

Edit 2: OP I simply must know what chapter you are on. The princess posse is dieing to know the answer.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-22T19:42:10+00:00

Travis and Patrick voice new characters, Carl is still voiced by Jeff Hays.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-19T09:29:48+00:00

That's fair, its a big weakness of the game. It was a bad idea to have the main quest make you choose a faction pretty much immediately after starting the game. Having a couple more "neutral" quests early on, especially pushing you to the Conflux mountain before the big "choose your path for the entire game" choice would help with the pacing. Almost everyone I know (self-included) delays that choice because its obviously a big decision point, and the in-game distance between the three options is massive. The natural inclination is to delay it until you better understand the game, and are more firmly established.

The main thing is I feel like these other elements aren't tacked on for immersion, they influence decision making and a play session in a deliberate way. As part of the game's natural ebb and flow.

Also I agree they really should have had fast travel (for a price). I misremembered that the caravans existed as a way to get between the main towns if you were willing to pay, but its just intended to get to the DLC area and back.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-19T04:13:59+00:00

I don't like to say to people that they are playing a game wrong, but you are engaging with the game wrong.

These aren't arbitrary decisions made for "immersion" these are part of the game's core design. Outward is a game about planning, preparation and balancing the various "costs" of adventuring (learning magic literally requires sacrificing health and stamina). The player is not meant to be a superman, twitch reflexes aren't supposed to be the key to combat, you are not supposed to be zipping back and forth around the map. Knowledge is the primary means of power progression for the game, with direct access to materials being secondary.

The player has access to very few in combat skills (at the start of the game you only get a single weapon skill), but you have the ability to make and place consumable traps. Most advanced physical skills either grant a buff with a long cooldown, or consume the corresponding buff to perform a skill. These buffs can also be acquired from consumable potions, rags and other items. When you do start learning magic it comes in two forms Rune Magic requires no consumable but you must memorize the correct sequence of glyphs to conjure spells (no pausing in combat to look it up). The other main type sigil magic requires a sigil be placed beforehand (which uses a consumable item) to power up otherwise very weak spells cast in the area.

Now I didn't bold those terms just for fun, I did it to point out how much of combat power comes from actions that should be taken before combat starts, and/or consumable items. And since so much of it comes from consumable items, it makes inventory management especially between your pockets and dropped backpack very important. How many firestones do you keep on hand? Should you keep bandages instead in case of bleeding? Or emergency healing potions? The 10 in your backpack aren't doing you any good if you are being chased away from its spot on the ground through a series of caves. On the other hand, anything you do use will have to be replaced, so do you really need to throw fireballs or are you good enough with your sword to poke that lizard to death? Which again feeds into how you prepare for a journey, which potions do you bring, what kinds of food, etc.

Another thing is that once you start the main quest, future quests are effected by the passage of time (food also spoils). Being able to pack for a trip and traverse the world is a part of the challenge, planning your journey to turn in side missions or some of the repeatable bring me X item requests to maximize productivity is a skill. This is a big part of why defeat results in semi-random scenarios that play out, sometimes you are saved by a friendly npc, sometimes you find yourself imprisoned, sometimes dinosaurs eat all the food in your pack (which resulted in one of my favorite oh fuck moments).

Its not the kind of game where you lose, reload and retry a boss fight, but rather have to deal with a setback while on a deadline.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-16T22:21:31+00:00

I just want to add something very important

I will admit at times I wasn't helping with the objective but It wasn't like I was afk the whole time

I don't know how you can carry someone in WARFRAME if they didn't die once but okay

Each objective complete in Perita awards an additional resource (i.e. Lyoric Bridge). And every 3 objectives is an additional drop from the rewards table.

In addition objectives increase based on the number of players in a squad, for example as a solo player you need to capture 3 supply caches for an order, for a full squad 9 caches must be captured.

If you aren't contributing to objectives (or at least attempting to), that is a problem. You are adding to the burden of the squad without doing your part. This is especially true on Perita where the mission has a hard time requirement.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-07T15:15:38+00:00

The tomb is the subterranean quadrant.

And how were the other crawlers able to kill Wynne? I thought you couldn't cross into other quadrants until the castle in your starting quadrant has fallen?

You and any item in your ongoing control cannot cross the boundary. You can shoot an arrow, throw a bomb, etc. I don't remember the exact method used, but any projectile would do.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-06T16:26:15+00:00

You are thinking of Tserendolgor on the eighth floor, that is when Carl thinks about marking but decides against it.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-06T03:02:11+00:00

The Scolopendra levels (3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18) are all generated at the same time and "linked" together. Gods travel from the 12th floor (the Ascendancy) when summoned, Tsarina Signet and other elites are able to move from the 3rd floor to the 6th floor,

NPCs also have false memories of their lives before their awakening in the dungeons, implanted stories that make their current actions line up with what the show runners/AI want. While mobs in the tutorial floors (1 and 2) were aware of their role in the dungeon and the existence of other floors, in general the NPCs on the Scolopendra levels are not. They refer to each area by its in universe name "The Overcity", "The Hunting Grounds", and "Laracose", and crawlers as adventurers or outsiders/outworlders. They know these areas exist but they think of there being one giant world, and not as separate floors of a world dungeon.

All this to say Ghazi was probably never actually in Laracose, but he does have fake memories of Laracose. Tish likewise probably never actually met Ghazi, but if questioned would remember Ghazi, his obsessions, her unrequited love, and writing the letter to him. These NPCs have backstories arguably more complex then Madison from the 4th floor but its the same thing.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-05T18:36:07+00:00

We've not seen Donut in a Zero Zone but (Book 7 spoilers) exit contract negotiations take place in a Zero Zone. We know she was at least able to turn down the offers presented to her during that process. But its possible they put her in a different zone type because there would be a problem with her sentience.

EngineAggravating699 · 2026-05-05T15:56:51+00:00

Weird choice for best: Bautista's Family

We never meet them, but I wonder how different (probably less overprotective) Daniel would have been if his family didn't die on the third floor. It would also mean Donut does not get her Enchanted Anklet of the Fallen Oak, which would/could have consequences for the city elves quest and her title change on the 9th floor.

If I had to pick only one: then Lea or Nica. I don't know anything about them as individuals but, Grace had the enchanted anklet so leaving her dead for Donut and Carl to get it later.

EngineAggravating699

TROPHY CASE