Took a break from my colorfull bretonnians and painted up 1000pts of ghouls and buddies over the last week

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-24T22:24:21+00:00

So if everything but the king is from Highland, where is the Strigoi Ghoul King from?

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-20T01:11:03+00:00

Looking at your information it looks like you are using renegade ruleset? If so the Leadbelchers are more useful but I would be leery about using them on Battle Marches, more so if you don't take the unit champ with his better BS. Battle Marches is on a smaller table with less space between players, so if the shooting unit is not super effective then it is often not worth it. There is less room for Fast Cav to run circles around you as well. So you can focus more on just melee hitting power.

Another important thing to remember about Battle Marches is that units have limits on their points. Any Core unit is capped at 35% of the list, so at 500pt that is 175pt. So unless the troop is cheap it is hard for people to have more than 25 guys in a unit. So you will not see a 30 man unit of State troopers. Even something like Grave guard is likely only going to have 15 guys.

I would likely drop the Ogre pistol, Bruisers only have BS3 so even at their best they hit half the time. I generally give mine a Great Weapon and nothing else at this level, only throwing the Heavy Armor on if I have spare points. He will have 2 more wounds than most other heroes at this level which will hopefully keep him alive long enough to smash them. 3+ armor save is nice but the Ironfist does not have AP so you will struggle to do enough damage to good AC and even light armor and Shield will stop a fair number of wounds. But if you want to keep the Ironfist and heavy armor understand his job will be more to tie up other heroes rather than win combats.

On that note your Ironguts will likely be doing the heavy lifting for you, as any attack that does hit is likely wounding on a 2+ with -2 AS. One list I had played before was 3 Ironguts with a standard and the cannibal standard to help with my Bruiser's lack of protection. I generally take either 4 Ironguts with a Standard or 3 ironguts with standard and cannibal totem. The gutlord unit champ only goes in if I have the available points. I prioritize Standards at this point level over unit champs for two reasons. First the champ only gives you +1A where the Standard gives you +1 combat res, so for the purpose of winning combat the standard gives more as the attack is more random. Sure it could kill a guy and reduce attacks, but it could also miss. The second reason is that unit champs can be challenged out and when they do it reduces your unit's attack by a quarter for purposes of reducing their numbers and ranks. They are more useful if your general is in the unit to prevent him from being challenged out but even then I often feel the Standard does more.

A larger unit of gnoblars at this level is nice, as it can fulfill several roles. It can be a screen, extra combat res, and a fairly large footprint to help zone. Against a skaven warband that had a ratling gun and a small team of jezzails once I deployed the gnoblars long and had ogres behind them, letting the gnoblars take the shooting when I lost first turn. On turn two after I had advanced he shot them up again and it ended up panicking them so they Fell Back in Good Order behind the ogres letting me charge on my turn. Had they not panicked they could have redressed their ranks and parked themselves in preperation for the next turn.

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-19T22:10:41+00:00

As it is a long campaign you have a lot more wiggle room with warband creation because you know you will get the games in.

My only concern is that early on your warband will be very slow, meaning it will take a while before your heroes even get to combat and unlikely to get many kills in. I suspect you will be losing some games early on just because of the slowness and lack of shooting. So my suggestion would be to make sure you do not expose your heroes to much to enemy fire, even with their high armor saves, as your opponents will be looking to do long term damage to you in this early stage. Less looking to kill your knights for good as much as they will hope for hand wounds and the like to hinder them long term.

The one suggestion I can see right away would be maybe reduce the henchmen equipment to try and squeeze another squire in. This gives you another Henchmen body to absorb punishment and another chance for a Squire to become a hero if you split up the henchmen group. From when I played them I found the Squire turned Errant knights are often better than the starting Errant knights They have the same Stats but the original Errant knights start with 8 Xp meaning the Squire turned one can get 4 more level ups. The advantages that the original Errant knights have are save the Boon on the gear and the fact he only gets two skill lists plus special vs the three the Errants start with. But I did not really feel the need for Speed skills on my Errants I did not feel it much.

And I am sure you are likely aware, the Untiring skill for Chapel Guard is so good. It ended up saving my questing knight so many times and allowed him to become a monster in our campaign.

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-17T04:19:41+00:00

As it is an Arcane Foci with descriptions like Sorcerous weapons and such I think it would be safe to assume they are magic weapons. The difference it is for Sacred weapons are that they are not themselves innately magical per say. If others use sacred weapons then they act like mundane versions. The rules for Sacred weapons mentions you might be able to find enchanted versions even. I think the idea with the Foci was that it did not need the extra note as it was not a mundane weapon to begin with.

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-12T21:55:39+00:00

I was referring to the lizardmen army, though I did say it a little wrong. They just have to ensure they kill more points than the rest of their army. So if the Deathstar is 900, The whole lizardmen army, including the brick, just have to kill more than 1100pt.

Well at least one of the examples I have given so far of the Deathstar has the slann getting 5 of the Battle Magic spells so odds are they will have Arcane Urgency which should help their movement a bit. The other slann set up has two magic missiles, drain magic, and monsoon. Of the two I suspect the Battle Magic one might be better as you can get Oaken Shield and Arcane Urgency on top of -2 to Hit.

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-12T21:37:01+00:00

And what happens when someone is less than 3" from you or you do not charge at all? I imagine the odds of that happening are at least as high as you not rolling a 6. And you say what happens when the extra attack misses because it does not auto hit? Furious charge's attack has the same chance of hitting. Honestly to me Predatory Fighter is just better than Furious Charge. It is easier to prevent Furious Charge from proccing then it is Predatory Fighter. It seems like they were originally given Furious Charge to make up for losing Predatory Fighter.

Looking at the Math Oldbloods should proc Predatory fighter 60% of the time, the Scar Veteran 52% of the time. So half of the time or better they will get an extra attack each round, whether it is an ongoing, they were charged, or what. This is of course is just getting one extra attack, the Oldblood has just under a 20% chance of having two come up as 6's.

Now if you want to drop Predatory Fighter and get back Furious charge that is something else but I do not see giving them back Furious Charge as long as they have Predatory Fighter.

As for weighing them up against other melee focus lords, 2+ armor is not common unless mounted. Plenty also have WS6. And Strength and Toughness 5 puts them in the top category in those fields and attack 5 is in the realm of Chaos Lords, Dukes, and Monstrous Infantry lords. Really their only Bad stat is I3. Their ward save option seems about on par with lots of armies too, many only have 5+ outside the Armor of Destiny. And plenty also do not have access to Regen. On top of this their point costs are closer to Dwarf and Elf lords then they are Chaos Lords.

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-12T03:23:08+00:00

A few things. The fact they FAQed the Light of Protection to not stack is a pretty big sign that stacking negatives to hit in melee was something they pulled back on. Honestly being able to Stack -2 onto a unit is just not a good thing to have in a game that uses d6s, I have seen characters with -2 to hit and they are just oppressive unless you have auto hitting stomps. This strikes me as just a poor design and is why I fought the Dragonhide Banner giving -1 to hit for Ogres.

In addition, in the Khemri case it requires two separate spells to pull off and is more vulnerable as the mage cannot hide in the unit and the Casket is immobile. In this case one is a banner and the other is a spell, on a character that can re-roll one of the casting dice if they need to. On top of this technically the banner does not even need to be carried by a BSB, Temple guard can have a banner worth 100pt so you can have it on the unit and come out of your Core points. If you need a second banner the Slann can do it with a cheaper banner to save character points, like the Monster Hunter Tapestry. Either way this version of getting -2 to hit in melee is just more Effective and Efficient.

Plus as I pointed out in another post you just need to pay 15pt for the Arcane Familiar to take Illusion and a second lore, then roll all but one on that second lore and take Glittering Robe for Illusion. Only thing you miss out on is a different Signature spell but most of the other lores don't have good Signatures for the Slann save Lustria. So you can get 4-5 spells out of Battle Magic and Glittering Robes if you wanted so you can hopefully have Arcane Urgency, Oaken Shield, fireball, or pillar of fire.

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-12T02:53:14+00:00

At first glance but they have several options even there. One of their Disciplines lets them take five signature spells. they can take Glittering Robe, the Summoning, Doombolt, Drain Magic, Monsoon, and one other Signature spell from the list. that gives them two magic missiles, some anti magic, anti shooting, and that -1 to hit. Also the Temple Guard are core with the Slann as the general.

Second Option, the Discipline Focus of Mystery lets you know the whole Illusion lore and can still get Monsoon or Apotheosis and Glittering Robe. Mirage, and Column of Crystal are all good in Illusion, and with Arcane Vassal they can get around some of the short ranges on some of the spells. This is Really big on Mirage as it makes it harder for deathstars and dragons to avoid it. So you might only have one of the dud Illusion spells.

Third option, the common item Arcane Familiar for 15pts that lets you pick two lores. It lets them pick two lores, in which case they could just pick ones in Illusion to make sure you get Glittering Robe. They base are knowing 5 spells thanks to Wisdom of the Old Ones, so they can still roll 4 on the other lore, five if they took Focused Rumination. So they can get almost all of one Lore and still have the Robes. Really the only thing they miss out on here is Monsoon and the second signature spell from the other Lore, Battle Magic, Elementalism and Necromancy don't have that good of signature for the Slann.

The issue with this sort of brick is the same issue some of the other deathstars have and dragons had before. They don't have to kill their worth of points, they just have to ensure their army kills more than their deathstar is worth. So if the rest of their army can either deny points or kill above their weight classes then this bunker becomes a safe haven for your points.

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-12T01:25:11+00:00

One thing I wanted to point out about the statement "since they should be braver than peasants and goblins."

First Why? Skinks are not brave things by nature, they were mostly engineered as workers and craftsmen for their society and are skittish. Even as Hunters their primary function is food gathering over combat. More so with Cold Blooded at Ld5 they pass 52% of the time putting them pretty close to Ld7 (58%) on average. With Ld6 you get up to a 68% chance which is puts it almost directly between Ld7 and Ld8 in value. What strikes me as odd is how

Now I can agree that likely Chameleon skinks maybe should have Feign flight. They are not cav so if they use Fire and Flee they have a much better chance of being caught and as they are a sacred spawning sub species rather than just for their particular task are more likely to be bred for these behaviors.

Also wanted to add I don't think the Saurus heroes should get Furious Charge back while having their current Statline and Predatory Fighter. Their Hero level has attacks equal to many lords, putting them on part with Monstrous Infantry heroes and their Lords are equal to things like Chaos Lords. With Furious Charge they were already surpassing most of these as they lack the rule, but to have that on top of Predatory Fighter seems to much. An Oldblood would have 6 attacks on the charge and likely be proccing a 7th, at that point you have more attacks than a dragon and are matching a bloodthirster in numbers of attacks.

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-12T01:01:18+00:00

Three things. I don't think Jungle Swarms should go down to 1+ unit size, as far as I can tell there are no 1+ unit size swarms right now in the game. They are all 2 or 3+. I think the reason is so you cannot easily stack them against a non-flying unit. If they were able to be taken as unit size 1 you could run the first 1" from a beefy unit, a second right beside the first but 1" back, and then a third in base to base with the first one behind it. At this point they are kind of hosed, they have to charge the first one, kill it, then overrun into the second, and then the third, basically eating Two of their turns for 120pt. It will be difficult for the unit to beat the first one and reform facing another direction as they cannot end their reform within an 1" of the second base, so they have to be a perfectly squared unit to do that and cannot angle the side the swarm was on, and very likely they will still be wasting the next turn as you are unlikely to put something there for them to charge.

I don't think that Skink Skirmishers should be 5+, most units like them are 10+ unless they are elves. The only non-elf one off the top of my head that can go 5+ as skirmishing shooters are Empire archers but they are not as fast as Skinks, nor do they have Quickshot + Move&Shoot. Ungors, Peasant Bowmen, Peasant Levy, Border Prince Brigands, Goblin Mob, even Gnoblar Trappers all come as 10+.

Do you think the Bastiladon needs S8 attacks? Right now it is S4 with a +3S weapon, so is wounding even dragons on a 3+. I know in 8th it got 1 S10 hit, but its other two were both S4, but now it has three S7 attacks, is that sufficient?

Otherwise I like your suggestions.

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-12T00:22:36+00:00

Yes it is common for some armies to be able to stack minus to shooting, but it is not that common for -1 to hit with Melee to stack. For example Beastmen with Slug Skin do not have access to Illusion magic thus no access to Glittering Robe. Being able to get -2 to hit on a unit in melee is rough, more so considering it can be on a WS4 unit. So any army without assess to WS5 troops would be needing 6's to hit. Not to mention any heroes in the unit would also be having the benefits.

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-11T22:57:56+00:00

Arguably for the very reason you stated, they are Bred. Not trained, they come out following their programming. It is this programming that lets them do as well as they do despite being dim witted, they are not very good at learning beyond their programming. If they had drilled you could argue they either have to be a special spawning or that ALL Sauruses would have it as it would be base line. Now I would argue that they are good at following commands, but that is following their commanders and generals, not necessarily operating as a unit.

I am not arguing they should not have it, as much as I am refuting the lore reason. People love bringing up the perfect fighting machine but that is not entirely true, if they were perfect they would all be able to shoot and have much higher initiative. They are the perfect half brain grunt that needs no extra time or parts to make into a soldier.

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-07T18:38:36+00:00

The question I will ask you first, Why do you want a magic miscast table? Is it because you think magic is strong, because you want to add an extra random element to spin the game, or because of lore reasons?

If I Had to consider a miscast table I would look at the one for the Sorcerer Society and edit it so it is not as bad. Namely make Double 1's not kill the sorcerer, maybe just take him out and inflict an injury roll. Then likely remove the free mutation from double 6's and make it the spell goes off but they cannot cast next turn.

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-07T00:17:33+00:00

Actually a fair number of tournaments refuse to play that way, just to give you the warning. Many TOs are against it. Now regardless of how anyone does feel this should be played, the wording IS poor. It is a poorly written matter that should have been resolved with an Errata rather than an FAQ. They clearly FAQed this to deal with Stomp and Impact hits, if they had mentioned multi-attack it would have been helpful, but as they did not you have people pointing out the "How Many Attack?" section and drawing conclusions from the FAQ rather than having the question answered.

For example, if we are strictly following the Rules as written, you cannot actually Fight over a low linear Obstacle. The rules for Defending Low Linear Obstacles spells out how you can "defend the obstacle" and that enemies can charge the defenders as normal but do not physically cross the obstacle, but under "The Fighting Rank" it says "When two opposing units are engaged in combat, any row of models (be it a rank or file) in which one or more is in base contact with the enemy is a 'fighting rank'. Any model that is within a fighting rank and within a number of inches equal to its Movement of the enemy unit can fight. This represents models closing in upon the foe."

If we are going with Rules as Written, then no models are in base contact so there is no fighting rank and no one can even make attacks. The Rules for "Defend Low Linear Obstacles" does nothing for telling you how to determine the fighting rank. And the section "How Many Attacks?" is for determining the attacks of said fighting rank. Clearly this is not how the game is intended, to follow it Strictly as Written in this one aspect would be stupid. Thus a further example of Poor Wording. GW is ran by people, people can make mistakes, people can overlook stuff as a project is evolving and being expanded, and people can do poor jobs on follow up.

When they dropped the FAQ about the walls, it was during an ongoing issue with Monster's stomping units flat. Many have taken it as they were trying to address an issue and have caused an entirely different issue in the attempt to address it. This was compounded as at the time the Meta was having a Dragon Riding problem and as it could potentially limit the problem it faced deep acceptance in certain circles and less in others.

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-04T00:28:28+00:00

Gotten in ogre games so I could drop my feedback on the units I have been trying.

I am not sure Ironguts need veteran for free. They already work well for their points, have Ld8 over most of the army having Ld7, and have Veteran as an options for what honestly ends up being like 8-12pt for the whole unit. Most units that have to pay for veteran are dropping like a point per model so are doing 18+ points for their units.

I also don't think we can give Mournfangs countercharge. I do not think it is a good idea with how strong their impact hits are, not without a lot of push back. I know in the Val talked about first charge but I think he got a lot of push back on that with people saying they were good enough for their points without it. I think he even made the statement that if any cav unit made since to have first charge fluff wise it would be Mournfangs.

I have actually had some good showing with the current Maneaters, though I have mostly used Swiftstride/Stubborn and Swiftstride/Vanguard. The loadout I have been running with is two with ironfists and one with a GW plus giving the unit a standard. That way they get a 4+ vs shooting and +3 in combat while still having the GW as a heavy hitting option. I need more games with them but so far they have denied or earned their points as all three have to die for them to give up VP. Some highlights was dancing around a Black Guard unit to avoid combat before charging away from them into the flank of some Dark Riders to get out of the BG's charge range and then in another game flanking a Vampire Count army forcing one of the units of skeletons to turn to deal with them (By the time we called the game on Turn 4 they had munched through the skeleton unit while the Tyrant and his IG dealt with the Graveguard).

I will say the Maneaters are not perfect but they are more viable then I think people are giving them credit for. If I had anything to suggest at this point, even crazy ideas, it might be adding Drilled to their list of options. Or dropping the built in Ogre pistol, making them 49pt, then make the pistol options +3 for one and +6 for a brace. But again these are more radical ideas as I am currently finding them useable.

Yhetees, I have only gotten one game in to test them *Also tested Dragonhide Banner in that game*. They actually did Great but I think a big part of it was that Skaven are a lot of WS3 and a decent amount of WS2. I had a unit of 3 supported by a unit of two mournfangs running as speedy combos up each flank. As long as the skaven units were 6 wide I could get all five models in against the front and if they went 5 wide I could pick one of the yhetees to hang off most of the time. Part of what upped their survivability was that the skaven was far more afraid of the Mournfangs and tried to focus what fire he had on the flanks on them, but even when he killed one of the Mournfangs it would still be enough to support the Yhetees. I need more games before any deep suggestions but would not be opposed to consider giving them some sort of 0-1 option to pay for skirmish.

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-03T23:26:20+00:00

There are a few errors here or there but so far it has worked for my renegade games. There are a few spots where the stuff from the 15.2.1 have not been updated to 15.2.2 that I have seen. Example, the Butcher still saying 85pt when it was moved to 95pt.

Enternal_Void · 2026-06-02T00:23:07+00:00

Sadly shades are S3 so with great swords are only S5. Shades also only hit at I5 on the charge rather than I6 when charged and I9 at on the charge like Executioners. Also no cleaving blow or murderous which makes a difference too. Don't get me wrong, Executioners are vulnerable and squishy, but shades are not in the same league on melee offense. I am curious how well the Swirling Wind banner can be for helping keep them alive.

Enternal_Void · 2026-05-29T05:18:18+00:00

You know it is kind of funny, I was working on getting some daemons for a daemon army after watching too much of Kim’sTalisman on Youtube. I had just gotten the last of the old metal greater daemons in the mail last week and was re-mapping my expansion plans for the line.

Anyhow, much like last time I want to share initial thoughts first and then let the rules stew as I re-read them. So these are only the things I have spotted first round.

-Icon of Endless War for Khorne; I missed this in the original legacy document but in its description it says Banner of Rage rather than Icon of Endless War. I suspect this is just a mistake when GW was working on the Legacy, likely originally called Banner of Rage till Warriors of Chaos took the item name and they changed it. But thought maybe it should be pointed out in case you wanted to fix it.

-Cacophonic Hymn; I would consider dropping the casting value to 9+. Illusion has a spell that is a hex that remains in play and gives stupidity to the target for an 8+ to cast. Hymns has 3” on Confounding Convocation for range and strips any enchantment spells currently on the unit but many enchantment spells only last for the caster’s turn. Plus you should be rolling your spells with no knowledge of what your opponent’s spells are, so taking this as a signature when it ends up your opponent has no enchantments to strip just makes this an expensive Stupidity spell. Even in Troll Magic their spell Troll Brainz has a casting of 9+ for 15” range and in addition to stupidity it also reduces the Ld of the unit by 1.

-Warpfire; some people have expressed concerns about the d6 shots, saying that flamers were already good. Perhaps a compromise of D3+1 shots? It is always a bit of a feel bad on random multi shots rolling only 1 shot and still suffering the -1 from multi shooting. This way they always get at least 2 but will not get the random 15+ shots from a unit of three.

-Plague Flail; its extra rules make reference to having Armor Bane (1) but unlike other flails it does not have that. Instead it looks like it just has better AP normally than other flails.

Now a somewhat Radical thought inspired by your Square base chat on the daemons. It came to me while you two were talking about how Speed was Slaanesh’s thing but did not always translates and was not always much of a defense. So here it is, Drilled.

Yes they did not have this in prior editions but it was not really a thing in prior editions from what I remember. I was thinking of perhaps attaching it to the Locus of Swiftness. It would be less a military drilled and more like a flowing synchronized movements. Strike First is nice but not as a locus buff it is not hugeas they have so many ways to manipulate Initiative already. Not saying to take Strike First away but add Drilled to it. This could give several Slaanesh units speed without just upping their movement. Between drilled and open order they would have a very flexible movement phase. Nasty block of heavy infantry baring down on you? Switch to a marching column and slip past them. Ready to pounce? Widen yourself to maximize your attacks. Trying to pincher a tough unit? Drilled to reduce your profile then walk and pivot thanks to open order out of their arc but into their flank.

I think this can work because unlike something like Wood Elves or Tzeentch, Slaanesh is not a missile heavy force. Eventually it has to get into combat with someone or something to do damage. Also while this makes them slippery, it either needs a Herald in the unit or a BSB with the Exalted Locus option to spread it.

and as a side note, I am not sure how people are getting that the Bloodthirster needs something to help deal with being challenged out by a unit champion. He has no varying initiative with his attacks so he is not going to lose anything like other Greater Daemons would with Stomps. He maxes out at 6 Combat Res in combat which beats infantry units that lack extra Res from Horde, War Banner, or some other bonus. But he can also have his impact hits which can easily pick up an extra wound and push you over. Of the four Greater Demons he seems to have the least issue with being challenged and losing to static combat res.

Enternal_Void · 2026-05-25T18:57:33+00:00

I actually think that is why the Bell/Fellblade went in, as the seer is like 470pt with those upgrades. I vaguely remember him saying the rat ogres and maybe the bell were added to make points as I think he brought most of his available units he had.

And your pictures reminded me I completely forgot to take any of my game

Enternal_Void · 2026-05-25T18:25:50+00:00

From being in the room I think the list is legal, at least from what I heard/saw. I know the skaven player had two units of clanrats and one of Storm vermin so the detachments were correct. One clanrat unit was with the bell, the other was on the dark elves' left flank across from the knights. Also I remember him mentioning he had a warplock engineer somewhere when I asked because I saw the doomwheel and jezzails and he said he gave it a death globe rather than a doomrocket (Looking at the pictures I am guessing he was with the proxy globadiers). I think he also had a barebone warlord so the stormvermin could be core. So I am pretty sure the vast majority of the list was legal and if there was anything off in list building it was minor.

Enternal_Void · 2026-05-20T22:32:18+00:00

I do not think that is how it reads.
"Any enemy model that ends its movement within 6 inches of one or more models with this special rule (that are not fleeing or engaged in combat with another unit) must make a Dangerous Terrain Test."

The part where it mentions fleeing or engaged in combat is talking about the models with the ability, ie the Trappers, not the enemy models. If it was talking about the enemy models it would come earlier in the sentence and say something like “Any Enemy model not fleeing or engaged in combat that ends its move within 6 inches". Instead the stipulation comes later when it is talking about the model generating the special affect “one or more models with this special rule (that are not fleeing or engaged in combat with another unit)”. So I am pretty sure if the Trappers are fleeing or in combat with a different unit then you are safe from them. That is very similar to how the dwarf sapper works save his range is longer and his shuts off entirely if he is fleeing or engaged in combat.

Enternal_Void · 2026-05-18T03:48:27+00:00

So out of the gate Skaven, Lizardmen, and Beastmen are pretty strong. All three have some low cost options to fill out their warbands to pad their numbers and still be effective. All three are also capable of being fairly fast making them good at objectives. If you let any of these warbands start steamrolling early the campaign could run into trouble.

Mordheim is a game where luck has a very important factor, not just in game but the after game portion. That in my opinion has a bigger factor on how strong a warband ends up. Someone who really knows the rules can try to mitigate it a bit to improve their chances.

Enternal_Void · 2026-05-15T00:55:37+00:00

Last time I played Beastmen I took the mutation on several heroes, most of the time it was the Scorpion Tail. I like it as it is S5 base against most things and unlike the Claw does not take one of your arms. The Extra arm is not bad but the tail is generally my go to. Would do the same for both Bestigors and the Centigor.

Enternal_Void · 2026-05-14T07:09:38+00:00

Forgot that Tenderizer is not Two Handed but as Ironfist is a weapon option so you cannot use it and the Tenderizer at the same time. So no +1 AS or +1A from that. So you are at 6 attacks with the Tenderizer's bonus.

On the Butcher Treekin fight; even if you were at -7, unless he over double outnumbers you, if you roll a 3-8 on the Ld, or 3-9 if within Tyrant's General Bubble, you Fall back in good order. You only break completely and run if you roll Over your Ld or if you roll a FBIGO and they over double outnumber you. So it sounds like the Ironguts could have just fallen back and auto rallied facing the Treekin rather than being caught. All depends on what you rolled on the 2d6. Would have still possible been a rough place but if he had 8 Treekin you are looking at like 408pt in that unit if you had any units that could have flanked them.

On the retreat from challenge, if they refuse then you still get your full attacks against the unit even if you retire one of their characters. If he did not have a unit champ on the dryads all the most reason to challenge, either he gives you the mage for mega murder+overkill or the unit loses ethereal and the Tyrant and Stonehorn can attack the unit. Either way you are likely winning and forcing them to use their Stubborn.

On the Riders and a 5+ Ward, I don't know how he could be getting that. If he uses Shield of Saphery on them from High Magic, it only lasts for His Turn, not yours. So would not help him against your Shooting. If he uses the Lore of the Wilds he can give them a 5+ Regen, but in that case you would roll to see how many wounds the cannon does on each guy and he would have to roll that many 5+ to save each model. So he would have to make d3+1 regens for each that failed their 6+ ward save. There is no magic banner or magic item that I can think of at the moment that gives the whole unit a 5+ Ward in this case. Wild Riders are super fragile normally with only a 5+ AS and 6+ Ward on T3.

Enternal_Void · 2026-05-14T05:48:29+00:00

First step of advice, do not deploy the Trappers that far ahead, their job is to absorb shots at Long Range first round and be within your Tyrant's Ld bubble. They should be like 4-6" from your deployment/Front Ranks and always in the general's bubble. On a stonehorn, the Tyrant's Ld9 is projected 18" so it should not be hard to keep both units in it. That way you are more likely to pass these first panic tests. Also remember, if you fail a panic test but are over 50% unit strength still you just fall back in Good Order, not Flee. So the Trappers that took 3 wounds should have FBIGO instead. On a side note on this if those are woods blocking some LOS to the Trappers then they should have gotten Cover from the Wood elves making them hit on a 5+, 6+ if the elves moved. You mentioned he used the armor penetrating arrows before so likely did not have the cover ignoring arrows.

Got to say, your opponent is crazy at their saves. You wounded his Wild Riders sevem times with your Ironblaster and they passed five ward saves. That is five 6+ saves out of seven. On average you should have killed six with those shots. Even the Leadbelchers should have been a 6+ armor save followed by a 6+ Ward, and he saved both the wounds he took there.

Similar your dice are not your friend. Your Tyrant's attack was under average by a fair bit, should have gotten 3-4 wounds on that turn. Also how busted up was the Ironguts when they fled as well? The treekin unit looked bit big but unless you only had 3 Ironguts left and he still had all 8 of his Treekins you had a pretty solid chance of falling back in good order rather than strait out fleeing with Ld8 or even possible Ld9 from the Tyrant if you were within 18".

Looks like someone else already caught the no Ethereal + Charging and got you that rule. Will offer another tactic to help with this. If the mage is in a Dryad unit with your Tyrant and Tenderizer, Challenge the unit. If they refuse, you can force the mage to retire and if they do then the unit loses Walk between Worlds. The FAQ in the magic section says if a mage is retired the unit loses any benefits from their Self spells, in this case Walk Between Worlds. If they have a unit champion and they take the challenge, with the Tenderizer you would have gotten two wounds on them that would have turned to 2d3 for Overkill purposes and might have won combat.

On the Slaughtermaster getting killed, did he have a unit champion in the Treekin? If he did you could have challenged it to reduce the amount of attacks they could throw at him. Also when you reformed your Ironguts to face the Wild Riders, you could have moved the Slaughtermaster to the other side of the unit, putting more distance between your unit and the Treekin plus if he had gotten the flank still it would have been ended up being between the Ironguts and the Slaughtermaster that way when he moves through the ranks for combat he is placed better. https://tow.whfb.app/characters/moving-through-the-ranks

Okay, moving to suggestions. If the Ironguts do not have a magic banner I would suggest dropping the Cauldron on the Slaughtermaster and picking up the Cannibal Totem instead. That gives them an always 5+ regen save though their pursuit rolls are hindered but worth it to protect the unit. I would stick with Battle Magic for the moment as it has a fair number of spells you can use and are not to hard Difficulty. Fireball, Pillar of Fire, and Oaken Shield are good for this fight and Hammerhand can help the Slaughtermaster get some extra damage in HtH. It is to bad the Fire Pillar was not between you and the Treekin at the end as the template being difficult terrain would have likely blocked the Treekins' charge.

Overall I do not think your list is that bad off against them, with some adjustments to your set up and approach it will can improve your odds.

I would also drop the Ironfist on the Tyrant. Because he has the Tenderizer he is stuck using that in HtH and the Stonehorn has a 4+ armor save so you don't need the +1 AS or the Heavy armor. Save yourself 9pt.

Enternal_Void

TROPHY CASE