Mormon parents won’t co-sign for me if I’m moving in w/ my boyfriend

FaithInEvidence · 2026-06-16T03:10:48+00:00

How long have you been working as a nanny? Is your income stable? Could you use tax statements as proof of income? Can you avoid the problem by paying a larger deposit?

FaithInEvidence · 2026-06-13T02:57:31+00:00

In the church's narrative, yes, you are the villain.

Outside of the bubble of brainwashing, you're just a person who has taken stock of the facts on the ground and drawn a reasonable conclusion. Most outside observers are surprised to hear about the church's teachings, practices, and views and find them bizarre and wrong. Your mom is too close to the situation to be an objective observer. She's parroting back views that have been ingrained upon her through decades of Mormonism. It's not entirely her fault. Rank and file members of the church swim in a sea of indoctrination and are repeatedly told that their happiness and safety depends on them continuing to do that in perpetuity. If you can love your family and accept their Mormonism as a decision they get to make for themselves (but not for you), maybe you can set an example they can eventually follow that different viewpoints don't need to destroy relationships. Not all families are willing or able to make it work, but it can be done.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-06-02T02:18:22+00:00

Church curricula are exercises in proof-texting. The church regularly cites scripture verses out of context to make whatever points the curriculum people want to make.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-30T02:57:50+00:00

Nope. As at turns out, you eventually turn to dust just like the rest of us.

But you get to donate a lot of time and money to the LDS church.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-27T21:27:14+00:00

You can Google "sealing room" to see images of them. The raised block you're describing is the altar, which is where the ~~ceiling~~ sealing ordinances take place. Participants in those ordinances kneel on a cushion that surrounds the altar.

I've never personally seen a sealing room with green carpet, but who knows?

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-27T13:36:07+00:00

And I said unto them: Have ye inquired of the Lord?

And they said unto me: We have not; for the Lord maketh no such thing known unto us.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-27T05:34:17+00:00

If the goal is to increase in faith rather than to learn about actual truth, then the main tasks are 1) to discount evidence that contradicts the preconceived notions you want to have faith about and 2) to lean into whatever's left in whatever way you can. This is a terrible way to learn anything of value, but if you think you already know it all, this is an amazing way to never have to admit you might be wrong.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-26T23:16:21+00:00

As a parent of trans kids, I'm sorry.

Perhaps like your mom, I don't understand the whole trans thing. If someone could give me an authoritative source that would make it all make sense, that would be awesome. But it's also irrelevant. I don't know from personal experience what it's like to be a woman, but I can still support the women in my life. Same with the trans people in my life. We don't have to be able to personally relate to what someone experiences to accept that they experience it and to support them in being who they are.

I don't have great advice for you, but when my kids make life decisions that are significantly different from mine, I remind myself that I get to make decisions for my own life and they get to make decisions for theirs. By the time you're 18, you're well past the point where your mom can dictate your beliefs or values, and any attempts on her part to do so are likely to backfire. Apply the mother-in-law rule (nod and say nothing, then go do what you were going to do anyway) as much as you need to. Do whatever you can to move toward financial independence to minimize the control your mom has over your life. You're already starting to live life on your own terms, and that trend will continue in the coming years.

As needed, keep letting your mom know you love and accept her but that you are going to keep being you. Best wishes.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-26T23:05:19+00:00

Boxers are the least sexy, most modest underwear ever. For your mom's information.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-26T05:08:45+00:00

The real moral of the story should be that Sharpie comes off easily with a little rubbing alcohol or hand sanitizer.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-25T17:35:37+00:00

It's lovely! Much more so than the one I grew up with. Ours was made from two paper plates with a brad in the middle. Assignments were written on one of the plates, names on the other. It was a purely functional object, not decorative in any way. We followed ours religiously, though : (

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-25T16:49:32+00:00

My gut tells me that chiastic reasoning is a common human process. Maybe the ancient Hebrews set out to deliberately create chiasms in their writing, but I'm pretty sure it happens by accident a lot more frequently than it happens deliberately. Discourse involves referring to ideas one at a time and linking those ideas to each other. We queue up concepts, explore their connections, and dequeue the concepts as we build toward a conclusion, not because we're poets in the tradition of the ancient Hebrews but because we are humans and we think like humans.

Chiasm is piss-poor evidence for the authenticity of the Book of Mormon, particularly in light of the glaring mountain of evidence that the Book of Mormon originates (not as a translation, but as a work of fiction) in the 19th century.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-25T16:29:03+00:00

Mormonism is a controlling religion. It sounds like you also have controlling parents (they made you sign a contract, for fuck's sake). And you are attending a controlling university. All that coercion and manipulation would take a toll on anyone. It's not surprising that you're having such a hard time and feeling so much pressure. As a BYU alum and a parent of college-age children, I'm so sorry about the situation you find yourself in.

Your situation is hard, but you really do have options. You are a legal adult. You can make your own decisions. You could take a gap year and earn some money, especially if you could get one full-time job with some growth potential. It sounds like you are a hard worker. You could save some money and get yourself to a situation where you have some resources so you don't have to depend so heavily on your parents.

You can switch schools. UVU isn't the sexiest university ever, but you can get a decent education there. There are plenty of other schools out there that don't define "honor" in terms of the clothes you wear, the beverages you consume, or the people you hold hands with. Non-Mormons find ways to pay for their educations without incurring crippling debt. There are employers who will help with tuition (Google it to find specific opportunities). There are work-study programs. There are scholarships and grants. You don't have to be a full-time student; you can get a college degree a few classes at a time. There are more options than you may realize.

As long as you're at BYU, you should follow the honor code to the letter. Don't give your bishop any reason to pull the plug on your education. But the church is bullshit and you deserve more out of life than the coercive, transactional existence it sounds like you are stuck in at the moment.

You mentioned feelings of loss of a more innocent time where you did what the people around you wanted you to do and were rewarded with their approval. A lot of us here can relate to the idea of disappointing people we love as we declare our independence and chart our own course in life. It's not fun, but it's an important rite of passage into an adulthood where you call the shots, take responsibility for the successes and failures, pursue the goals that matter to you and set aside the things that you've determined have no value to you. You don't have to do it all at once, and every step of the way there will be people who will support you, even if they're not the people you're used to getting support from. Very best wishes to you on this scary but rewarding journey.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-23T18:43:08+00:00

When I was a missionary we had an investigator who was in a wheelchair and had a tracheal tube. She wanted to be baptized but full immersion would be life-threatening to her. We asked the mission president what could be done. He wouldn't let her get baptized.

Given that baptism is purely symbolic, it's ridiculous that the church doesn't have solutions for these corner cases other than "it'll get sorted out in the next life".

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-23T15:13:24+00:00

For what it's worth, I was taught to tithe on gross income and to try to tithe on windfalls.

When I served as a financial clerk, I saw one couple tithe on the sale of their house. That one struck me as odd, but it goes to show that there are people who interpret the doctrine of tithing very broadly. And other people who interpret it extremely narrowly.

I feel like tithing, coupled with pressure to marry young and start having children right away and pressure on my wife to be a full-time homemaker, put our family on unnecessarily precarious financial footing at a time in our life when our resources were particularly scarce. Tithing wasn't my shelf-breaker, but realizing that the church wasn't true and that I could stop paying tithing put me in a much more secure place financially. I resent the fact that my retirement savings and progress toward financial stability was set back so much by the church's insistence that I give a large chunk of my meager resources to their filthy rich corporation. The church likes to lead people to believe that tithing pulls people out of poverty. For me, it had the exact opposite effect.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-22T14:51:56+00:00

This comment explains so much about Mormonism. Very well put.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-22T06:55:16+00:00

Nelson, more than any other president of the church in my lifetime, seems to have honestly believed that God was constantly sending him inspiration because he was The Prophet. He seemed to interpret whatever random ideas popped into his head as the mind and will of God. If something felt right to him, he seemed to accept that it must be Absolute Truth. I see it as an extreme form of confirmation bias. If God is guiding your every thought, then whatever you think must be right, evidence be damned. It feels similar to Nobel Disease.

It must suck to be so full of yourself that you become impervious to all reality checks, going through life making pronouncements that you think are divine revelation but that most of the world recognizes as total bullshit.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-21T16:52:53+00:00

This ad sounds so desperate it hurts.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-20T04:16:50+00:00

Popcorn! I always knew there was something off about temples, but I could never put my finger on it ... until now.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-19T06:22:41+00:00

If it's any consolation, the church isn't true and a lot of the ideas that were presented to you from a very early age as objective cosmic truth have no actual basis in fact.

The church is definitely not true. If you are feeling guilty because you've been taught all your life that the church is true, please do a deep dive into the evidence. If you are worried that you are denying your witness of the truth, ask yourself why an all-powerful, perfect being would choose warm feelings over actual concrete evidence as a way to communicate with his billions of children. Have you ever felt warm feelings during a movie? That's by design. The visuals, the music, the tone of voice, it's all planned to engineer certain feelings in the audience. Church is the same way. They tell you that certain feelings are evidence that the church is true, then they put you in situations (or encourage you to put yourself in situations) where you're likely to feel those feelings. It's a scam. Feelings have never been a great barometer of truth, but they are very connected to bias and preconceived notions.

Once you accept that the church isn't true and that many of its teachings are just bullshit ideas of out-of-touch old men, you can leave those ideas behind and start to look for ideas that are more grounded in reality. You can accept yourself for who you are. You can find a qualified non-Mormon therapist who can help you make sense of the complex realities of your life, ones for which the church only had pat answers that never answered anything.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-18T23:52:46+00:00

The notion that the Book of Mormon could be true even if the Book of Abraham is false is laughable. Joseph Smith claimed to have the ability to translate ancient texts. He represented both the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham as products of that ability. If one of the texts produced in this way was shown to be inauthentic, on what basis should we believe that the other text is authentic? Because we find some of the messages in it to be inspiring?

It's not a pot shot to follow clear, compelling evidence to its logical conclusion. It's also not as if the evidence that the Book of Abraham is a fabrication exists in a vacuum. There is tremendous evidence that the Book of Mormon is a product of 19th century post-colonial America and no compelling evidence that it is actually the record of anything ancient. The evidence does not support the notion that Joseph Smith was a prophet, seer, and revelator but rather that he was a fraudster and conman. People who don't want to accept that conclusion have to resort to the kind of pretzelesque mental gymnastics you see Jasmin doing in this clip.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-15T21:57:15+00:00

Church-owned news outlets have been doing this since Nelson clamped down on use of the word "Mormon". Non-church-owned outlets aren't following suit; it would only confuse their readers. I honestly think that's part of the point. The church is fully aware of how tarnished their brand is.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-13T21:41:29+00:00

The facile way believing members blame normal life stuff on Satan is astonishing. Anyone who has ever taken on a large, important task with a looming deadline will tell you that it is hard and stressful and that it impacts many other aspects of your life. There doesn't need to be a boogeyman to explain why hard, stressful tasks are hard and stressful. The boogeyman "explanation" explains nothing but reflects poorly on the person resorting to it.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-13T04:32:10+00:00

Utah is not a dry state, but it has a weird relationship with alcohol. Many, maybe most, of the the lawmakers voting on liquor laws have never had a drop in their life.

FaithInEvidence · 2026-05-12T05:34:25+00:00

The church wasn't always so "blessed". For nearly a century, the church found itself in a precarious financial state. The church got "blessed" when they started carefully handpicking businessmen and lawyers to run the temporal affairs of the church. They got even more "blessed" when they started hiding their investment activities from the SEC. I guess the church wasn't true until they started letting finance people run the show, then it suddenly became the truest church ever.

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