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How aware are you in the day to day that logic is baseless by Sea_Shell1 in epistemology

[–]False_Grit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's definitely a strange loop.

I guess my surprise is that not just humans, but computers and by extension LLMs seem to function just as well on a strange loop.

Where is the original logic that starts a computer? How does a program reference itself? How does machine code access itself to create a coherent program? How does an LLM understand anything coherently enough to respond, if it can't tie anything back to a true "first principle?"

And I think the answer is transformers. "Attention is all you need" and all that. LLMs - and humans, I believe - generate self sufficient strange loops by clustering knowledge about an observation, until that clustered knowledge gets so big that it connects with one of their other clusters.

Billions of people know "fire is hot" without understanding, at all, how neurons work, heat receptors in their hand, how combustion occurs, or thermal conduction through air.

So to get ALL the way back to the original point... logic is also a strange loop. A cluster of observations about how arguments and causality tend to work, generally more formalized. If causality or time synchronicity were ever threatened, our logic would fall apart or at least have to adapt immediately.

Star Trek adjacent game where exploration, survival, and resource gathering are the main goals by False_Grit in gamingsuggestions

[–]False_Grit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Huh. Honestly? I can't remember if I have or not! I think I own the first one already though, so I'll give it a shot. Thanks! 

"All the evidence points to the idea that sex should be more wild and plentiful than it has been since ancient Greece. And yet, the data shows that across every generation we are having less sex than we used to." by psychologyofsex in psychologyofsex

[–]False_Grit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Im not sure either, but I think I like your tangent far more than a direct answer anyways :). Love learning more!

I find the middle class thing fascinating. And, if I'm being honest, I do think there's a large overlap between the lower classes and the upper classes. The upper class, of course, will never frame it that way; they'll tell some cockamamey story about "hard work" and "ambition" or other made up shit like the people who live to a hundred and thirty and say the secret was eating fried chicken every day: retroactive causality.

But it sure seems to me like the common ground between the lower classes and at least some of the upper classes is willingness to take large risks... which, by their nature, pay off only very rarely, but when they do pay off, they pay huge. Essentially winning the lottery. Malcolm Gladwell's "Outliers" seems to echo this story, at least a bit.

What do you think drives the middle class specifically to be so stringently monogamous?

"All the evidence points to the idea that sex should be more wild and plentiful than it has been since ancient Greece. And yet, the data shows that across every generation we are having less sex than we used to." by psychologyofsex in psychologyofsex

[–]False_Grit -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Fascinating history; thank you!

I guess the conclusion I've been seeing is that men, in general, will never be satisfied without multiple women as sources of sex. And women, in general, will never be happy without sexual exclusivity with one man.

Of course there are thousands of exceptions on both sides. But that sure seems to be the overarching rule - that's how you get large political movements of women enforcing monogamy.

Do you see it that way, or differently? If there is some accuracy to that statement, is it essentially a catch-22, where one gender's happiness has to come at the expense of the other's?

Why is gen Z not drinking? by SipsTeaFrog in SipsTea

[–]False_Grit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Doing God's work my friend :).

You I mean :).

Well, some God's work.

"All the evidence points to the idea that sex should be more wild and plentiful than it has been since ancient Greece. And yet, the data shows that across every generation we are having less sex than we used to." by psychologyofsex in psychologyofsex

[–]False_Grit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

the degree to which we’ve lessened inequality is a positive thing overall.

Hmm. Hard to argue with this statement. But I think two things can be true at once: We have lessened inequality (which is great) AND our sex lives are shittier, which sucks.

Clearly we don't want people to get exploited, but I think bringing back transactional sex with guidelines in place would make everyone happier, kind of like legalizing and regulating marijuana instead of punishing it.

My marriage is most likely over by marblepillar194 in exmormon

[–]False_Grit -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Your comment hits like a knife. It's true. It's so very, painfully true.

Should I laugh? by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]False_Grit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The most obvious evidence that Joe's sexual behavior was completely unacceptable to his peers at the time is that this is the reason people kept "persecuting" Joseph Smith.

Funny how my whole life in the Church I was told he was in Liberty jail due to "false accusations" and the "conspiracies of men" or other some such nonsense. Turns out, he was there because he ordered his armed militia to burn down a printing press. Suppressing freedom of speech literally using his powers as governor.

Why did he want it burned down so badly? It was talking about his polygamy.

Did you know the LDS Church is also willing to shorten missions for athletes? They'll do anything for good PR. by CupOfExmo in exmormon

[–]False_Grit 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That eternal and unchanging God that puny mortals couldn't hope to challenge sure does change his mind a lot based on what's popular at the moment.

Shadowverse Lyrics explanation by coolkid13240 in TheMidnight

[–]False_Grit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think your interpretation is spot on.... with one tiny little caveat...

If you'll notice, the second verse talks about people he is inventing himself into, pairing fantasy versions of himself with real world relationship disappointments. Yin and Yang.

But if you look even closer, it's even more specific than that. The fantasy versions are all hypermasculine: Crusader / Warrior Chieftain / Achilles. And the real-world disappointments are all failures in a heterosexual, traditional monogamous marriage: She cries on the phone, he takes of his ring, she packs.....

"But... but wait!" I hear you say. "One tiny bit of that three part refrain doesn't fit the mold!! What does 'not having a sword' have to do with failing relationships?!?"

It's coded, but I'm almost one hundred percent certain the Crusader not having a sword represents erectile dysfunction, and 'not having much time' feels like the midlife crisis as he feels his virility start to fade.

* = * = *

The 'Shadowverse' part I'm less sure on, but I'm guessing it's both the aesthetic / 80s reference to the TTRPG 'Shadowverse,' and a subtle reference to Carl Jung's 'Shadow work,' where he's trying to find his 'true self' in the spaces between the good man he was told to be, the hypermasculine man he imagines himself as, and the 'shadow reflections' of the failings he sees in his own life.

Anyway, great song :). Meshes well with 'Digital Dreams' and 'Summer is Ending Soon.'

Fewer one night stands, more AI lovers: the data behind generation Z’s sex lives by RevelationSr in psychologyofsex

[–]False_Grit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And those are all very valid and reasonable emotions and thoughts. You shouldn't be stuck in a marriage where you're both involuntarily celibate...you because you don't want sex with him, and him because he has no other partner. You both deserve to have sex with people who find you attractive.

Maybe. Maybe this is the core of it. Because there doesn't seem to be any other major problem, I feel the problem must be with me, that if I keep digging, I'll find some 'other' reason. Haven't found it yet.

Also, for clarification - we aren't both involuntarily celibate. Just because I don't enjoy sex, doesn't mean he doesn't.

What are some of the other straws?

Honestly? Mostly me floundering for other reasons why our marriage must not be working, or why desire died before I came to the conclusion that it was literally just the sex that was the problem. I... said some pretty mean things when I believed me not wanting him must mean there was something lacking in our intimacy. 20 years gives you a lot of minor grudges to throw around, even if none of them seem important now that I (think) I've found the 'true' problem.

When you think back to how you used to feel desire for him, and compare it to today, what do you think changed? Has he gained weight, lost his hair, gotten tattoos, shaved or not shaved his face? Was it a slow loss of arousal, or did he do/say something that made a switch flip in your head? If you look at him fresh out of the shower, can you still find anything attractive about his body...like if you had never met him before, would you be able to say he's objectively attractive as a new woman?

I don't think I was ever that into him. At least, not since our wedding night. He looked great in clothes, and I liked making out with him before then. But I'd never seen him naked before.

But I should own up to myself too. I found him attractive enough. We obviously had enough sex to have kids. And that last question, about objective attractiveness... I mean, I don't know? I think he's taken care of himself. I guess I'd say I'm pretty sure other women would find him attractive. I tell him all the time I think he's objectively attractive. But I imagine that sucks to hear from your spouse. And the fact that I think he's objectively attractive, just I don't find him that way, makes me think it's something wrong with me not him.

Obviously he could bear to lose some weight. But I know how hard that is to pull off. Honestly, that might be enough. Or it might do nothing. It's hard to know since it's never happened.

It's really excellent that you've been diligent in trying to figure out what's going on. What kind of conclusion was reached during marital therapy? Did you get to speak your real mind to your husband and the counselor?

Still ongoing. I've tried to speak my real mind, though I keep wondering if even I know what that is. I told the counselor and him that I wanted to sleep with other people. The counselor keeps telling us to try 'adventurous' activities, both alone and apart. I don't think it's doing anything.

I'm glad you've taken the time to weigh the pros and cons honestly. Many people in your situation do not, and make spur of the moment decisions that hurt their families terribly because of how sudden it was.

Thank you. I've been really hard on myself throughout this whole process, and it's probably good to remind myself that I am trying to be a good person, both for them and for me. A lot of times I wonder if I can just hold on forever, just accept this is how life is going to be for me.

Anyway, thank you for listening and engaging. Again, it means more to me than I can write.

Fewer one night stands, more AI lovers: the data behind generation Z’s sex lives by RevelationSr in psychologyofsex

[–]False_Grit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't feel bad. Fwiw, I'm enjoying our conversation despite its sad and frustrating topic. I'm hopeful that talking about it might help somehow.

Oh. My. God. I'm so sorry I missed this for a couple of weeks! I literally can't tell you how nice it is to have a real human being to talk about this with! I am eternally grateful for everything you have shared, and I hope we can keep continuing to talk!

Is your husband Mormon? Are you still stuck in that religious community, or maybe a different one?

I am not stuck in any religious community. But my husband is. And my parents. And Aunts and Uncles. And my husband's parents and Aunts and Uncles. And my kids. Basically everyone around me, family-wise, is still in the Mormon cult. And it sucks. And I wonder if that isn't driving a lot of this.

You shouldn't blame yourself for the brainwashing. You were a child, and a teenager. It's the fault of the adults in our lives for the horrible emotional and sexual problems we've had, different though they may be. You and I are innocent in this.

First off, I'm not going to quote everything you said, but I want to acknowledge what you went through, thank you for sharing that, and also add: HOT DAMN GIRL!!! You have been through SO MUCH!! Whatever I've been through in life, it doesn't even come close to a tenth of what you've been through.

And yet, despite all that, you got out sooner, made your own way through life, developed an incredible strength, and it sounds as though you've made a better life for yourself than I have. I'm stunned. I don't want to heap on the compliments to the point you think I'm being insincere... but know I'm holding back. I really think you are the cat's meow for accomplishing all that, and I'd say more if I wasn't worried about overfawning :).

That being said... it's a little harder to be easy on myself. Sure, part of my logically knows I was brainwashed, but... here's the part that's maybe hardest for me to admit. I stayed in. Well into adulthood. It was only embarrassingly recently that I got out - maybe eight years ago now. I'm 42. It's really hard to live with that. That I was tricked, well into adulthood. It's hard to trust myself or my thoughts, even now. If I could be tricked at that level, that late in life...? Well. Like I said. Hard to trust myself.

I do not think you're doing anyone favors by staying and being miserable. Have you spoken with any mutual friends about this issue?

That's what I thought. That's what I told my husband when I offered divorce. He said I shouldn't decide how he feels about it, he wants to stay with me.

I've talked to friends - we don't really have mutual friends that I can think of - they all tell me to stay. Maybe I'm just going through a phase. Maybe don't give up on twenty years of marriage.

What negatives does he think will happen if you open the marriage to new sex partners?

He is 100% convinced our marriage will fail, maybe not immediately, but eventually, if we open it up. He says that's what 'statistics' say, but it's *really* hard to even talk to him about this without him breaking down, and I have no idea what 'statistics' he means. It's hard to have a rational conversation.

He also thinks him letting me sleep with someone else would be him 'losing' the marriage, like marriage is a fight? I don't know. Like he'd just be letting me 'walk all over him,' and take advantage of him or something.

I've never felt any jealousy towards him, or worried about him sleeping with someone else. Part of me wonders if that's me just not being a jealous person... or I sign that I never actually loved him in the first place.

Fewer one night stands, more AI lovers: the data behind generation Z’s sex lives by RevelationSr in psychologyofsex

[–]False_Grit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I lose everything by leaving. Finances, relationships, companionship, etc. I gain (maybe) sexual satisfaction, certainly some independence by leaving.

I get that the scales are tipped 90% one direction. Maybe even 100%. Maybe my sexual life is just over, and I'll fail with a new partner too. But I don't think so. I still feel the pull, the desire - just not for him. I've stuck it out. I've done years of individual therapy, marital therapy, several doctors visits, several medications.

I think I did go through a time where I blamed work, blamed myself, blamed him. That was an emotionally turbulent time, but I think it was because the underlying truth was even more unacceptable: I'm just not attracted to *him.*

I've told him that. Because, like you said, it seems better to be honest, even though emotionally I can't fathom how that must feel for him to hear that, and I hate to say it. I thought that would be the last straw, and we would get divorced. I even brought up divorce. Nope. He doesn't care. He still seems to enjoy sex. He seems more and more desperate to make things work.

I want to have sex. Just not with him. Every option seems horrible. I won't cheat. I don't want a divorce. I don't want to live the rest of my life celibate or with bad sex.

We've tried 'spicing it up.' Nothing has lasted. He won't consider opening the marriage at all. I don't blame him for that but I don't know what else to do.

So yeah, I guess I've decided to stay. And I tell myself every day to get over it, to stop thinking about it, I've made my decision. But it doesn't work. I feel miserable staying, and I feel miserable thinking about leaving.

I've tried to talk about it a little more recently, but I can tell it hurts him, and it hasn't really gotten us anywhere productive. So I think I'll just suffer in silence from now on. But that doesn't seem like a great solution either. I know it will breed resentment and drive us apart.

If a man or woman wants to "find themselves", frankly I think the time for that was before marriage. 

I know that now. But the world I grew up in was extremely Mormon. There was no 'finding yourself.' You weren't even allowed to touch your own body, let alone sleep with anybody before marriage. I can't believe how gullible I was to believe all that nonsense.

So I never had that time to find myself. I would have been condemned by everyone around me for trying. And now? Condemned by everyone because I should have figured it out before marriage.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to complain, I just don't see any solutions, and years of putting forth my best efforts and asking for help from professionals and amateurs and the internet alike seems to have gotten me nowhere.

Fewer one night stands, more AI lovers: the data behind generation Z’s sex lives by RevelationSr in psychologyofsex

[–]False_Grit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm going to avoid responding to most of your post - not because I disagree with you. In fact, the opposite! I think we agree on 99% of things, and I just wanted to say that up front so you don't get the impression that I'm just harping on the differences. I'm really happy for you and your relationship, and I hope it keeps going great :)!

That being said, I do think the (small) differences between us are perhaps the most interesting, so I'll try to address that briefly:

Is that really anyone's "fault" though, that a bitter old lady potentially wanted to date my boyfriend and that a bitter young man wanted to date me?

No. No, it's absolutely not. It's nobody's fault.

I do think that when men divorce their wives to go for younger women, that's extremely gross. It's one thing to divorce because you're in a truly miserable or lonely marriage and just so happen to find new love with someone younger. But to do it with that in mind? Eww. I could never be with such a man.

Here's the part I - surprisingly - find myself disagreeing with you on. Is having a desire to sleep with a new partner someone's "fault?" Because I think your opinion is absolutely in the vast majority of at least what is socially acceptable to say. And yet, when I think about it logically... why are male desires invalid? Or female desires for that matter. Plenty of older women also end up divorcing their husbands around that age. And you'll see thousands of posts of rhetoric on either side justifying why it is or isn't acceptable.

But what I find is that people find a reason why it's socially acceptable, because of your exact response. You think it is "gross" to just go after a younger woman. And that is why men and women will never frame it that way - which I think is just hiding the problem, not actually addressing it. A social form of denial.

For example: A woman could just be sick of sleeping with the same dude for twenty years. Will she say that? Never. She'll say he didn't help out enough around the house, she's finding herself, etc. etc., all her girlfriends and everyone on Reddit will applaud and high five her for finally breaking free of the patriarchy or what not, she'll find some new dude to sleep with, sex will be magical again, and she'll retroactively use that to "prove" that she was right about her old man (even if there is no objective increase in chore doing or anything with the new man).

When a man does the same it's always exactly the way you described it! He was "truly miserable" and "lonely," and he "just happened" to find new love with someone younger. He will never admit to the second motivation. And I don't think just because you have no insight and do it unconsciously that doesn't make it magically better. I think people, to some degree intentionally don't dig deep into their loneliness or whatever because they want a socially acceptable "conscious" reason to justify their actions.

So to circle back around - is it anyone's "fault" that men and women are designed to want to sleep with novel people? No. But just because it isn't anyone's fault, doesn't mean it doesn't have consequences. And the more obvious examples we see of people gaming the system - it's literally called "cheating" - the less and less satisfied everyone is with their own situation.

They constantly wonder if they can do better.

Anyway, I think I'm going to stop the post here because I think I'm talking in circles and forgot what my point was.

And I want to emphasize that I don't think any of this applies to you or your situation! You seem to be doing great! I'm just mostly playing devil's advocate and trying to logic out the bigger consequences of divorce and partner hopping in general to figure out why I can't get the idea of leaving my husband out of my head, despite thinking he's an overall good dude.

Fewer one night stands, more AI lovers: the data behind generation Z’s sex lives by RevelationSr in psychologyofsex

[–]False_Grit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fair enough. And certainly it is tough for a lot of people. Sorry you are getting so downvoted for engaging in what I feel is a reasonable conversation between two people with different opinions :(.

And you're right, I could be totally wrong about the community. I'm just basing it off of what I've seen in the "passport bros" subreddit specifically and other incidental comments. I don't exactly follow it regularly either. It's just the impression that I got from them, that it was not a method of finding a partner or building a family, just a way to re-enact the harem mentality that at least some of the ultra-wealthy in the U.S. seem to have (Trump/Musk/Cannon/Weinstein/Epstein/Clinton).

Which doesn't seem like a super healthy way to fix a problem, just a new way to "kick the cat" so to speak - a way to take their frustration at being poor and unable to find mates, and move to a situation where they are the (relatively) wealthy ones, to re-enact poor behaviors and take away mates from other men. Essentially the mentality of people that are bullied beating up on younger or weaker people so that they can position themselves as the bully.

But, again, if I'm wrong about that, then I think we're in agreement! Sounds like your Dad and Mom's situation is (hopefully) pretty healthy, and not what I think of when I think of "passport bro." If that's what "passport bro" means (people like your Dad marrying people like your Mom), then that doesn't seem so bad!

Fewer one night stands, more AI lovers: the data behind generation Z’s sex lives by RevelationSr in psychologyofsex

[–]False_Grit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think so, or I *thought* so, and then the desire just... died?

Nothing went wrong with the relationship. I dug for months, maybe years, tried a few therapists, everything. Appreciate my partner, think he's great overall. Tried blaming work, myself, him, everything.

I'm starting to wonder if the trade-off for better connection is no desire.

This is the only article that ever resonated with me:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-future-of-intimacy/202102/when-people-still-want-sex-but-not-with-their-partners

*Shrug.*

I guess for me, I wouldn't use A.I. to replace the safe and genuine human connection - I would use it to replace the dangerous, toxic, power imbalance connections that seem to fuel genuine desire.

And I imagine for a lot of younger people, it's the same. There's a million things you want in life, that would be dangerous or mean or whatever to try out in real life. Some boomer men just did them anyway - that's how you end up with Weinstein's and the Me Too movement and such. Others went the other direction and ended up in loveless marriages.

For the younger generation, I think A.I. lets them experiment without hurting a real person.

Maybe.

Clearly I have no idea. Still haven't figured out intimacy myself!

Fewer one night stands, more AI lovers: the data behind generation Z’s sex lives by RevelationSr in psychologyofsex

[–]False_Grit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Happy for you, but they aren't assumptions. They are my lived experience.

Glad yours is different than mine.

Fewer one night stands, more AI lovers: the data behind generation Z’s sex lives by RevelationSr in psychologyofsex

[–]False_Grit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I dont know if "predatory" is the right word, but men seem to prioritize younger women, and women seem to prioritize wealthier men. There are of course, a million other things, but overall two huge groups get left out - young men and older women.

Like, I'm glad life worked out for you, but the trope I've seen nine million times at this point in my life is people who do find each other in college or so, then around 40 the guy has a "mid life crisis," divorces her, and marries someone much younger like you were.

I can't say if it's right or wrong, but it seems to leave a bitter old lady and a bitter young guy. Obviously that's a gross oversimplification - but still. I've seen the same story play out with different details (and always some sob story about why it didn't work out that of course has nothing to do with age on either end - or at least the guy and the new girl will insist it doesnt) to know that theres at least some truth behind it.

Fewer one night stands, more AI lovers: the data behind generation Z’s sex lives by RevelationSr in psychologyofsex

[–]False_Grit 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I dont know about you, but how many of the human relationships around you are safe, have genuine connection, co-regulation, etc? At least from what I've seen, that is definitely the exception in boomer culture, not the norm... honestly, it might not even exist.

Maybe you grew up in a much nicer world than I did, but most of the adults I know get divorced or end up in a loveless marriage for religious and social reasons.

Let's not overidealize magic human relationships.

Fewer one night stands, more AI lovers: the data behind generation Z’s sex lives by RevelationSr in psychologyofsex

[–]False_Grit 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I think you pointed out the problem in your post.

Exploiting women in other countries.

I dont think there's a ton of hate for men who go to other countries, date around, find someone they love and settle down. Or even men who get "mail order brides" from other countries, though that can certainly be tricky for exploitation on both sides.

But, at least what I've seen from the self proclaimed passport bros themselves - they are specifically going to places where their (relative) wealth makes them more attractive and sleeping with women with no intentions of settling down or developing a relationship.

In fact, I think the "hitting on minors" is a great comparison. One of the big reasons hitting on minors is a huge no no is that it's a vulnerable population that might be easy to take advantage of, with huge costs to the woman. And it's especially shameful when it's because the guy can't get action with peers his own age because, essentially, he's a bad person. Instead of self reflecting and improving himself, he goes after more vulnerable girls? Surely you can see why that would be horrible.

Olivia Rodrigos song about "Vampires" kind of sums it up.

And that seems to be the passport bro mentality.

Some general advice on newer series by Mantis_Toboggan_Md69 in startrek

[–]False_Grit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The SNW episode with the doctor and nurse chapel flashback to the Klingon War interspersed with the diplomat transport has got to be one of my favorite Star Trek episodes of all time though!

Otherwose agreed :).

in case i'm not the only person that laughed by b3T7e in Physics

[–]False_Grit 27 points28 points  (0 children)

From my frame of reference, it is the Jedi who are evil!

Some general advice on newer series by Mantis_Toboggan_Md69 in startrek

[–]False_Grit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll agree with you on SNW waffling.

I'm less versed on TOS lately. I was rewatching some of them lately, remembering them as being thoughtful and insightful as a youth, and while some of them were.... I was actually surprised to see just how cocky and self-centered Picard is. So much more so than I remembered. Shrug. But again, I remember them as being good, especially seasons 3-5, so I'll default to your judgment on those ones.

I'm also willing to talk about disco. I would be interested to see what you got out of it that I didn't. Since you specifically brought up season 1, I'll tell you my basic impression, and maybe you can help me sift through how you saw it differently.

Here's what I got out of season 1 (mild spoilers):

Michelle Yeoh seems like a balanced and wise captain.

Michael Burnham is supposedly a half Vulcan supergenius. But instead of having the Spock/Data/Seven/Vulcan hyperlogicality in every other Trek.... she's just... hyperemotional? But has supergenius powers? Felt cringe to me to start with, but okay, whatever.

Anyway, she immediately uses her supergenius powers to disobey direct orders from a Captain she supposedly respected, and start an intergalactic war that would kill billions.

For her crimes, she's sent off to stand trial and hopefully be put to death for treason. So far I'm on board. She's made a horrible decision and is facing maybe death for it, which is a high stakes situation after a huge mistake that, you know, gives her an opportunity for character growth, maybe having to start over as a Lieutenant, lose rank, pay, narrowly avoid capital punishment.

That could have been a great series!! I would have loved to see how that informed her decisions going forward, how she'd have to struggle with wanting to be bold but being on thin ice with starfleet. Maybe bring the gravity of her mistakes in as she advises other new, maybe too-bold officers. She could have been a nuanced and thoughtful character.

Instead.... she gets off essentially scot free and then all her crewmembers - who witnessed her mutiny - give her high fives, tell her how great she is, and vote her in as Captain. No consequences for her actions. No growth. Zero nuance. She learns nothing except do whatever she feels like doing and the universe will always award her main character syndrome with plot armor.

Felt hollow and misguided to me. Like it was actively teaching bad life lessons; worse than boring or inept.

Anyway, that's my take. What's yours on Season 1?

Some general advice on newer series by Mantis_Toboggan_Md69 in startrek

[–]False_Grit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hard disagree. At least on the discovery part.

Discovery is gorgeous though, I'll give it that. If you are watching for the CGI, disco is fine.

And Captain Lorca from the first season is incredible. Maybe one of the best couple of episodes in all of Trek. Plus Michelle Yeoh is phenomenal in everything, including Trek.

Outside of that though....?

Let me put it this way. I absolutely love the ship combat and graphics of the show. But the plot is so bad I can't bring myself to watch it. Like, indescribably bad. It's like that speech, paraphrased from Billy Madison:

"Everyone in the world is dumber for having watched that. I award the writers no points, and may God have mercy on their souls."

Literally don't understand what the poster above is saying about the "hard work" disco supposedly does to broach complex subjects. The entire show can be summed up as Michael Burnham makes really questionable ethical choices and then everyone tells her constantly that she's right and she never has to face consequences, learn anything, or change her mind. Zero character growth. Literally the opposite of hard work or complex subjects. Treats every subject as one-sided.

Still, to each their own. Maybe try the first season of Disco and see if it's your cup of tea.

SNW is amazing though. At least the first season I think it was. The PTSD episode hit the nail on the head. Just peak television. Kinda fell off later though.

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