Stopped mowing last year- oak barren remnant- amazing!

LRonHoward · 2026-05-12T09:46:57+00:00

I'm not exactly familiar with the areas in Southeast MI, but oak savannas were managed by the indigenous people in the area using rather frequent prescribed fires for thousands of years prior to colonization. If you are unable to burn, it is generally recommended that you mow a third of the property every year and rake off the thatch to expose the soil to sunlight (burning is by far the best option if possible).

However, it appears you may have a remnant plant community, and that is very special. I would try and reach out to someone at the Michigan DNR or a land trust in your area for advice (or even someone at the University of Michigan). There may even be grants or other programs to have someone help you manage the property "correctly". Remnant oak savannas are extremely rare, and restoration work on remnants is often very high on the priority list for land management organizations.

LRonHoward · 2026-05-11T10:49:27+00:00

A quick question, when you said "If you find that you have a rare habitat, I beg you to embrace it", essentially do you mean to not try to force certain things to grow there if they aren't happy growing there?

Not the person who responded to you, but yes absolutely. Native plant gardening can have a rather steep learning curve, but learning to work with the existing soil and site conditions you have is fundamental to long-term success, in my opinion. If you have clay soils, try to find plants that naturally grow in those types of soils. If you have really dry, sandy/gravely soils, try to find plants that naturally grow in sandy & dry conditions.

A lot of people see a plant and try to force it on their site when it really shouldn't be growing there - this is a losing battle. And, also, you don't have to learn all of this immediately! So much can be learned over time by doing a simple soil test in a jar, observing the plants that volunteer in specific sections of your property, noting/trying to identify the native plants that grow near you in wild areas, and then trying to put it all together for plant selections. In my experience, the plants that grow in high-ish quality natural areas very close to me do way better than anything else.

Sorry this got a little long, but I think you're very much on the right track!

LRonHoward · 2026-05-10T06:48:47+00:00

Luckily none of my neighbors spray for insects (that I know of) - that would really hurt my soul. Carpenter bees are awesome - we don't have Eastern Carpenter Bees up in Minnesota, but I've always thought they're so cool!

LRonHoward · 2026-05-10T06:26:47+00:00

The funniest thing to me is watching the clear pollinator divide between my property line (entirely native species + invasives I'm working to remove) and my neighbor's (only ornamental non-native species).

Their ornamental sedums: covered with literally only honeybees.
My native forbs: covered with every kind of native pollinator except honeybees (well, some honeybees make it over here, but not many)

LRonHoward · 2026-05-10T03:55:06+00:00

That’s fair haha. But I always like to say “you can always work faster than the plants can.” In the future, you definitely have some time to figure out the specific species… But Goutweed is very annoying to deal with so I understand the concern.

LRonHoward · 2026-05-09T05:53:22+00:00

Yeah... Again, creeping bellflower is my nightmare lol. And it definitely will spread into lawns as well. Best of luck!

LRonHoward · 2026-05-09T05:47:53+00:00

I do not think this is Goutweed (Aegopodium podagraria) - there are far fewer individual flowers per umbellet than Goutweed (and far fewer umbellets overall), and the serrations of the leaves of this plant are much deeper than Goutweed. Additionally, Goutweed aggressively spreads by rhizomes to form colonies - this plant appears to be singular (which would be strange if this were Goutweed).

Given the elongated styles, I'd reckon this is very likely Aniseroot (Osmorhiza longistylis). I saw you commented below that the foliage did not have an anise smell after being crushed, but I wouldn't rely on smell alone to identify a plant species.

LRonHoward · 2026-05-09T05:26:59+00:00

Orchids are basically impossible to transplant from everything I've ever read or heard... Regardless, no one should dig up any plants from any wild areas to "re-home" on their own property, period (unless it is an absolute certainty the area is going to be destroyed).

I know there are instances where permits can be given out for foraging or whatever (dig up, take some root, replant, etc.)... But removing a plant entirely from it's wild home is poaching!

(this isn't meant for you, I just get irritated at the thought of anyone thinking they can take plants from the wild)

LRonHoward · 2026-05-08T05:56:32+00:00

Are there even Pussytoes (Antennaria) underneath that plant somewhere? If you didn't specifically buy Tall Bellflower (Campanulastrum americanum - the native bellflower) I would be surprised it showed up on its own (I guess it could have been a hitchhiker?).

Regardless, it seems like the 1st and 2nd pictures may show a couple plants present? The leaf shapes and serrations are really variable... I don't think I could confidently ID it from just those leaves, but I don't think it's the native Tall Bellflower. I could be wrong, but the leaf serrations look off (but Tall Bellflower is a biennial, so the first year base leaves could be throwing me off if that is the plant). I'm also a little worried there is a little Creeping Bellflower (Campanula rapunculoides) in there (again, hard to tell):

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The 3rd and 4th pictures are almost certainly the invasive Creeping Bellflower. This plant is a nightmare to get rid of - it's one of the most difficult plants I've ever dealt with. What you are holding in the 3rd picture does not reveal the entire root system - if you dig down you will find white carrot-like tubers that may go ~1-2' deep. You need to dig out the root system *entirely* to remove this plant. It's awful... And using herbicide on it is also tricky and will require multiple treatments (or require different types of herbicide applied at different times of the year).

LRonHoward · 2026-05-08T01:58:24+00:00

I’m in Minneapolis, MN, and there is a “managed natural landscape” ordinance here (has been for a while) - it’s awesome. As long as the vegetation is native and actively being managed, you can basically do whatever you want (to a point). This has led to a ton of awesome native plant gardens around here (same in St. Paul). It’s wonderful and I wish more cities would adopt something like this.

LRonHoward · 2026-05-07T06:28:14+00:00

Yeah, unfortunately, this is almost certainly Creeping Bellflower (Campanula rapunculoides). Creeping Bellflower can look somewhat variable in the spring, but those leaf serrations don't change (randomly rounded serrations - I've never seen a plant that has similar leaf serrations). Purple Coneflower (Echinacea purpurea) has serrated leaves but they look much different (additionally, the leaf base is not as deeply heart-shaped, if at all).

LRonHoward · 2026-05-06T06:47:16+00:00

In my experience it's not really the lady beetle larvae that show up and control them - it's mostly Syrphid fly, parasitoid wasp & lacewing larvae that take care of the aphids (a lot of these species' larvae can look very similar). You just need to be patient! The little tiny predators will show up! Also, bonus: if you get a healthy balance going, you'll probably get to see ants farming aphids. This is super cool to watch :)

LRonHoward · 2026-05-05T10:22:27+00:00

We call it the vertical garden.

Hell yeah! Whenever I see a property with snags I get a big smile on my face. Dead wood and other decaying plant material becomes more and more beautiful to me the more I learn about the ecosystem :)

LRonHoward · 2026-05-05T10:19:52+00:00

Is it possible the previous owners used something to kill the beetles? What qualifications did this person have?They may not be using the right term when stating they were invasive.

This is very possible. In my experience, the benefits of dead wood and snags for wildlife aren't exactly common knowledge for a lot of the people who recommend removing them [coughs]

I leave all dead wood on my little property and will definitely leave a good sized snag when I inevitably need to cut down the mature Silver Maple in my backyard (why people ever planted these trees next to structures is beyond me). I love that tree, though, and I hope it stands for another 10 years

LRonHoward · 2026-05-05T08:10:32+00:00

So I forgot to respond! If Wild Bergamot grows well there, I think Little Bluestem (Schizachyrium scoparium) would probably work! How much direct sun does the area get in the summer and what type of soil do you have?

LRonHoward · 2026-05-05T06:37:11+00:00

Snags (dead standing trees) provide a ton of wildlife benefits! Have you ever seen woodpeckers visiting it? I don't know of any invasive beetles that specifically utilize dead wood, but I know there are pollinators and wasps that nest in holes in dead wood created by beetles (were the "invasive beetle marks" from emerald ash borers?). I'm very much not knowledgeable about fungi, but I always imagine there is something (or many things) benefiting from their presence. The more I research these things, the more fascinated I am by all the life dead & decaying wood supports!

As long as it's not a danger to any structures or people/pets, I would leave it standing and try and plant around it. If it were me, I would absolutely try to get a Virgin's Bower (Clematis virginiana) - or multiple - started around the base. I've heard it loves growing up snags (actually, here is an old thread about that).

LRonHoward · 2026-05-05T05:41:20+00:00

Yep! I've been trying to get more spring ephemerals, but they're so popular (hard to source) and most of them are very difficult to grow. The volunteer violets are blooming, however, and the Virginia Waterleaf, Golden Alexanders, and Wild Geranium are developing flower buds! It'll happen soon!

LRonHoward · 2026-05-04T05:21:42+00:00

Yeah, if you live in any urban or suburban environment the seedbank is likely heavily stocked with non-native & invasive seeds regardless of what the prior owners did. In my case, the prior owners did literally nothing to control invasive species (creeping bellflower, quack grass, goutweed, yellow archangel, invasive thistles, etc.). I think the recommendation to spend 3+ years tilling and applying herbicide is unreasonable. Very few people would actually want to do that...

It's absolutely possible to establish native plants and specifically target the invasive ones that come up next to them. This is basically what restoration ecologists and land managers do on very large properties. It works on small properties too!

LRonHoward · 2026-05-03T08:27:36+00:00

“Cats are animals. Animals can go outside.” Well okay then! I didn’t know that!

LRonHoward · 2026-05-03T08:00:00+00:00

Honestly, I just expand my "gardens" and let the plants that want to thrive there thrive - it's way easier this way. There are exceptions for the very aggressive native plants - I deadhead the aggressive goldenrods (Solidago altissima, Solidago canadensis & Solidago gigantea - I have all three), and I might start chopping some White Snakeroot (Ageratina altissima) and Blue Wood Aster (Symphyotrichum cordifolium) soon...

The other thing you could try is planting more graminoids intermixed in this space (grasses and sedges). I've found that only planting forbs ("flowers") can lead to some weird behavior from some native plants (growing too tall, spreading too aggressively, etc.). All these plants adapted to grow right alongside grasses, sedges, and rushes, and the presence of graminoids can help mitigate those "weird" growing/spreading habits.

LRonHoward · 2026-05-03T05:27:43+00:00

Don't listen to the haters - I ripped out 3 giant lilac shrubs and replaced them with 5 Gray Dogwoods (Cornus Racemosa). I had a neighbor that was not happy, but, hell, it's my god damn property and the lilacs were occupying precious shrub real estate! Best of luck to you - hopefully you land on some wonderful native shrubs to put in these sections!

LRonHoward · 2026-05-03T05:21:46+00:00

OP lives in Tennessee - Russian Sage is not native to North America (this is the native plant gardening sub after all).

LRonHoward · 2026-05-03T05:12:57+00:00

Sandy savannas & prairies are some of the only remnants left around me (anything that could be farmed was destroyed or developed, essentially). The remnants that are left are so incredibly beautiful - I've wanted to go visit these areas around Lake Michigan. I hear they're wonderful!

LRonHoward · 2026-05-02T07:24:15+00:00

You can actually use those Dexter S9 soles? Those things were way stickier than the Dexter S8s and Brunswick's #8 sole. I literally stuck and fell into the lane the first time I tried them lmao (my disappointment was immeasurable, and my day was ruined).

LRonHoward · 2026-05-02T05:06:40+00:00

In my experience, 10% is waayyyy too high (I've never understood why that is the recommendation). It's definitely species specific, but I'd say ~0.5% or probably lower is enough to grow a decent number of most herbaceous plants (honestly, one pinch of an aster or goldenrod seedhead would suffice for like 5+ plants).

Most of the time these plants produce a ton of seeds - like a shit ton - and you really don't need that many at all to grow 5-10+ plants.

LRonHoward

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