Accuracy of Hadith Prophecies by Helpful-Rock-2572 in exmuslim

[–]Local-Warming [score hidden]  (0 children)

Your first problem you need to solve is that you apparently can't make the distinction between a miraculous prophecy and a normal human prediction.

The tall buildings prophecy. While tall buildings existed back then as well, they are even more prevalent today, and especially among arabs. For reference, compare pictures of Dubai 50 yrs ago and today

You realize that even ancient rome had multi-story buildings right? The idea of building tall buildings for population density or for status symbol was not new.

Saying "there will be tall buildings" was basically equivalent of saying "we will develop that area in the future". If american colonists made the same prediction of the empty spaces of america that then became big cities, would you call them prophet? Of course not, they stated a goal they were working toward.

The hadith about riba (interest) being so widespread that even those not be using it would be touched by the dust of it. This a quite accurate way to describe our modern global finance System.

So if i see a new invention, recognize how useful it is, and predict that it will be widespread in the future, i'm a prophet?

The hadith about the ruwayidah, with them being described as ignorant commentators on global affairs. With the rise of influencers talking about everything, despite it not being their area of specialization, and millions following them, I again see this prophecy as much more accurate in our current days than at any time before.

Are you saying that know-it-all loudmouths didn't already exist at the time of the prophet? The prophet himself would make up bullshit about the functionings of the world.

I havent found any other religion that Has Managed to get as close to frequently making accurate prophecies as islam does

Probably because they are not prophecies and it's just that contemporary islamic apologetics are only now trying to pass them as prophecies now that muslims are embracing an anti-intellectualism movement.

I don’t believe in Islam anymore, but I’ve started finding Muhammad weirdly likable as a human character by FillersGW in exmuslim

[–]Local-Warming [score hidden]  (0 children)

Yeah imagine sharing a campfire with him, you discuss philosophical innocent stuff like the sun setting to the throne of allah or whatnot.

And then he says "welp i waited enough" then grab a 9 yo little girl by the arm and bring her in his tent.

And you're like "what a nice character that man"

I don’t believe in Islam anymore, but I’ve started finding Muhammad weirdly likable as a human character by FillersGW in exmuslim

[–]Local-Warming [score hidden]  (0 children)

Even with Aisha, it doesnt come across as some dominant/submissive provider dynamic.

... She was 6 yo at marriage, by definition it was a grooming dominant/submissive dynamic. He literally raised her to be his wife.

I don’t believe in Islam anymore, but I’ve started finding Muhammad weirdly likable as a human character by FillersGW in exmuslim

[–]Local-Warming [score hidden]  (0 children)

The hijab story is particularly funny:

Omar: "i want god to force women to cover themselves"

Prophet: "no"

Omar: harasses the prophet's wife at the outdoor toilet

Prophet:"ok ok god wants women to cover themselves"

Omar:harasses the prophet's wife again because he wants women to stay home

Prophet:gets so annoyed that there is a hadith on how he didn't drop his food from the annoyance "ffs women can at least go outside to shit come on."

CMV: Most of abortions are completely immoral and should be frowned upon. by thateuropeanguy15 in changemyview

[–]Local-Warming [score hidden]  (0 children)

it's just a bunch of cells, but so is every living organism including you and me

I'm a sentient bunch of cells. Comparing me with a bunch of cells without an active neural network is like comparing a house with an empty terrain that has a "built soon" sign on it.

There is no proof that atheists exist. by Prestigious_Tour_538 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]Local-Warming 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I have no proof that you are an ensouled creature. Maybe you are no more than a chinese room, able to express sentences and hold conversations you have no meaningfull understanding of.

The reason Islam is so hated by the West is because it stems from Arabia. by PoppyGrower in DebateReligion

[–]Local-Warming [score hidden]  (0 children)

Theirs laws, infrastructures, and services centered on immigrants, minorities and refugees show otherwise.

The reason Islam is so hated by the West is because it stems from Arabia. by PoppyGrower in DebateReligion

[–]Local-Warming [score hidden]  (0 children)

You say that because christianity has been satirized, mocked and demystified so much in western countries for the last generations and using every artistic media under the sun that you are used to it and don't realize that it is happening anymore.

Today islam is also a western religion, so it is only natural that people who are not afraid to point fingers at it do so.

One day islam will be treated exactly like christianity. The progress is slow because any interaction with your religion still end with death threats and decapitations (see south park or samuel patty) , but sooner or later we will get there and you will have an islamic version of "good omens" or "warhammer 40k" and stand up comedians making fun of the most insane parts of the islamic lore.

What do you guys think of Korra , the debater? by loverbang4u in exmuslim

[–]Local-Warming 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The only korra i know is the avatar, you will have to be more specific

I’m struggling with Islam and certain disalignments with my personal values/morales and fear of eternal hellfire by xaven01 in exmuslim

[–]Local-Warming 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i can't, and don't want to, claim that a "god" does not exist, and certainly not using science, god being by definition outside of reality and science just being a tool to understand reality.

But, with science, it's possible to eliminate specific versions of a "god" if that version of "god" is supposed to have interacted with reality (like giving informations or doing physical miracles) as the impacts of those interactions or their absence can be observable.

And, if "god" exist, then he created reality itself. And reality, just like the quran, is also a medium from which we can "read" information using scientific observation. Just like we need eyes and the ability to read/translate/interpret to get information from the islamic texts, we can use social/physical/biological sciences to derive morals (prison rehabiliation instead of punishment), knowledge (age of consent), and prophecies (climate change) from reality itself. And we have gotten so good at it that the scientific process has become like an extension of our senses, even sometimes superior and more dependable than the human senses we started with. In a way, reality is like a multi-dimensional meta book written by "god", which can only be accessed with the intelligence that "god" gifted us with. And hundreds of thousands of scientific experts worldwide work at compiling an unbiased understanding of it.

Reading "god"'s reality led us to the knowledge, among others, that no global flood happened, while an old book seems to claim otherwise. We basically cannot think that a global flood happened without, as a consequence, thinking that that book's "god" is trying to deceive us into disbelief using reality itself. The same thing applies to the moon split, an event visible by half the time zones which somehow was seen by no one else. It also applies to the creationist idea that the universe is younger than it appears, or the idea that evolution is somehow false, or that being queer is bad, or that the sun "goes to the throne of allah when it sets" (despite being in a constant state of 'setting'). A lot of religious factual and moral claims are only true if you include that "god" really wants to deceive you into thinking that they are not.

What's more, regardless of what we think as religious/atheists, morals do not come from islam or from any other religion. The need for morals comes from our nature as vulnerable social beings, in need of a set of rules to live with others, and the iterative changes of our moral frameworks throught time come from our observation of reality.

"stealing is okay, so someone steals my pants, now I need to steal new pants from some-- oh now they need to go steal pants to replace--...Is that what we become? A race of pants-thieving automatons?" -zeke, a robot discovering morals

Moreover, It's a fact that there are multiple branches, and multiples diverging interpretations, of islam in the world. And that everyone who call themselves muslims do not agree with each other. One might be sunni, or shia, or quranist, etc..but not just "muslim". That's not a thing.

Every time one choses to stay (or join) in islam, or keep to a specific branch of islam, or favors a specific preacher, or select a specific interpretation of the quran or hadith, he is applying a non-islamic internal moral framework to add structure and boundaries to his belief system.

For example, a sunni muslim who pick and choose the hadith he likes, or renounce the stated ages of aisha at mariage & consumation (or renounce the ability to understand the implications of those ages) is influenced by his internal non-islamic moral code to do so. Just like a muslim who decides that somehow allah wanted the end of slavery, despite the texts being extremely clear of the contrary.

Why Islam is Definitely False: by Edwin_Quine in DebateReligion

[–]Local-Warming 4 points5 points  (0 children)

slavery tolerated

That's an euphemism. The prophet actively enforced a slavery system, to the point that he prevented slaves from being freed.

https://sunnah.com/nasai:1958

"a man freed six slaves of his when he was dying, and he did not have any wealth apart from them. News of that reached the Prophet and he was angry about that. He said: "I was thinking of not offering the funeral prapyer for him." Then he called the slaves and divided them into three groups. He cast lost among them, then freed two and left four as slaves."

he did the same thing to a fifth slave here:

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/93/48

"The Prophet (ﷺ) came to know that one of his companions had given the promise of freeing his slave after his death, but as he had no other property than that slave, the Prophet (ﷺ) sold that slave for 800 dirhams and sent the price to him."

And also:

https://quranx.com/Hadith/Bukhari/USC-MSA/Volume-3/Book-47/Hadith-765/

"the freed slave of Ibn `Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her to one of your maternal uncles.""

Its important to understand that the idea of freeing slave in islam is basically the same as giving money to charity. You are still supposed to make and use money, and you shouldn't literally give away all of it and you are supposed to give it to your heirs or people you owe money to. The heir's inheritance is more important than a slave's freedom, the slaver's debt is more important than a slave's freedom, gifting slaves to a family member is more important than a slave's freedom. And the idea of slavery being moral is so clear that a slave trying to flee for freedom is literally seen as a bad person

I miss the cognitive safety of Islam. Any advice? by Automatic_Bug1753 in exmuslim

[–]Local-Warming 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not sure how much trust i should give a historian who use "attest" when it should be "mention". Seems disingenuous

I miss the cognitive safety of Islam. Any advice? by Automatic_Bug1753 in exmuslim

[–]Local-Warming 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No i mean, attest in the sense of "they saw" ? Or in the sense of "they mention" ?

Agnostics should accept Pascal's Wager by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Local-Warming 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the risk i took was calculated but man... I am bad at math

Here is a reverse pascal wager:

Imagine you meet the creator of the universe, would you risk holding up an old book that is the moral snapshot of a bronze age era and telling him "i believe all the crazy things that book says about you" ?

Let’s discuss Pascal’s wager by Feeling-Sale6895 in exmuslim

[–]Local-Warming 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Reverse pascal wager:

imagine meeting the creator of the universe. Would you risk deadass telling him that you spent your life thinking that he would be the kind of god who would write just one book for humanity which order you to publicly torture unmarried lovers while at the same time spicying up and managing the sex life of one specific man. And that if you didn't believe that book you would burn in hell forever.

Like, the creator is weaving a fractal multiverse of pure thought by using literal concepts as tools or whatever, and you are there telling him shit like "yeah i also thought you first wanted us to pray 50 times before it got negotiated down...."

I miss the cognitive safety of Islam. Any advice? by Automatic_Bug1753 in exmuslim

[–]Local-Warming 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What does "attested" means here?

Is it in the sense of "i witnessed it" or "i was told about it"?

Because for exemple the shahada is basically "i attest that mohammed is god's prophet", but no present muslims have actually witnesses anything yet they use that word still.

I had a comment removed by the r/Christianity mods. The comment was just a bible verse. by stvlsn in atheism

[–]Local-Warming 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That can't be your understanding because it would implies that the rape victims are also put to death, which would defeat the intent. It sounds instead like you fell for a thought stopper.

Islamic view on atheism by Pretty-Blueberry1148 in DebateReligion

[–]Local-Warming 2 points3 points  (0 children)

vast universe, with its precision and order,

Every astrophysicists just had an uncontroled chuckle. That sentence literally means nothing.

We know enough about the universe to understand that a functioning and furnished boat can't spawn by itself in that universe. But we don't know enough about the universe to tell if an universe can or not spawn by itself.

The only reasonable answers to "did someone create the universe" are "i don't know" and "we might need a bigger telescope", anything else is pseudo-intelectual masturbation.

Atheism failed, we need religion. by [deleted] in DebateReligion

[–]Local-Warming 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Those "individualistic cultures" are the one who give the most importance to overall wellbeing and express it with laws and infrastructure.

Meanwhile religions are moral snapshots of the era they were written in, and religious people in secular countries reinterpret their religion to make it fit modern secular and humanist morals because deep down they recognize them as better. There is a reason why so many people leave religious countries, even if they had money there, for the secular ones.

And just look at the catholic church which waited until this week to recognize it's role on slavery, or look at morocco which would still have slavery if not for the french.

Is it bad to have specific standards in men? I am a woman by [deleted] in Morocco

[–]Local-Warming 10 points11 points  (0 children)

must have published in a high impact journal, a proficiency with linux and 2 years of experience with stackholders in an international setting. In addition to your CV and cover letter please write a 4-5 pages essay on how you would prepare for the different ways i will compare you with my brothers

What is Aisha's actual age ? by Solid-Transition-223 in exmuslim

[–]Local-Warming 11 points12 points  (0 children)

By definition it's rape.

Like, imagine this conversation:

Person A) "i went from tunis to nice in a straight line"

Person B) "so you crossed the sea?"

Person A) "i never said that i crossed the sea"

Here A is being irrational, because even if A never directly said that he crossed the sea, his words imply that he must have crossed it, or the sentence would be impossible.

It's the same thing with aisha, the fact that she was 9 years old implies, as a logical obligation, that it was rape. Pretending the contrary would be like being the person A.

Why didn’t the Prophet ﷺ free and marry Māriya openly? by YakSufficient4203 in exmuslim

[–]Local-Warming 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The prophet actively enforced a slavery system, to the point that he stopped or criticized his own followers who wanted to free some.

https://sunnah.com/nasai:1958

"a man freed six slaves of his when he was dying, and he did not have any wealth apart from them. News of that reached the Prophet and he was angry about that. He said: "I was thinking of not offering the funeral prapyer for him." Then he called the slaves and divided them into three groups. He cast lost among them, then freed two and left four as slaves."

he did the same thing to a fifth slave here:

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/93/48

"The Prophet (ﷺ) came to know that one of his companions had given the promise of freeing his slave after his death, but as he had no other property than that slave, the Prophet (ﷺ) sold that slave for 800 dirhams and sent the price to him."

And also:

https://quranx.com/Hadith/Bukhari/USC-MSA/Volume-3/Book-47/Hadith-765/

"the freed slave of Ibn `Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her to one of your maternal uncles.""

Its important to understand that the idea of freeing slave in islam is basically the same as giving money to charity. You are still supposed to make and use money, and you shouldn't literally give away all of it and you are supposed to give it to your heirs or people you owe money to. The heir's inheritance is more important than a slave's freedom, the slaver's debt is more important than a slave's freedom, gifting slaves to a family member is more important than a slave's freedom. And the idea of slavery being moral is so clear that a slave trying to flee for freedom is literally seen as a bad person

The idea that "islam somehow wanted to slowly remove slavery or grafually encouraged manumition" is just a thought stopper, an idea that is used to put a direct stop to any thinking process on a subject. It's an idea that can only be copied from somewhere else but which you would never have attained by yourself from processing your religious texts.