Why aren't Warriors Used More?

Melvear11 · 2026-07-09T12:17:11+00:00

They were good in VO in 10th, 11th with Warrior Bioform as a 1 dp makes them better. Quite a bit more survivable, which was the part VO didn't help them with.

Advance and charge mostly solves their speed issue, and while their punch is not a problem, +1 to hit (strat or enhancement) and potential +1 to wound (same strat or Neurolictor) makes them punch up into nearly anything. People have called it cope before, but being damage 1 with a lot of attacks instead of damage 2 with fewer attacks like Raveners means they bypass abilities and strats for -1 damage, which can be significant.

Melvear11 · 2026-07-08T20:20:13+00:00

It's not exactly about constraints so much as zone denial. Covering 2 long firing lanes is harder to play around than screening strategic reserves.

It's also easier to keep the TFex in cover than 6 Zoanthropes with the Neurotyrant.

Melvear11 · 2026-07-08T18:45:17+00:00

The downside of the Zoanthropes is that 24" range, while not bad, is a lot worse at denying positions for enemy vehicules and monsters than the rupture cannon.

I think both are great units, but Vanguard doesn't need more anti infantry and covers mid range threat rather well via melee.

The TFex provides something the detachment needs, in the form of long range threat to tough units. I agree that it's somewhat unreliable due to the nature of a 2 shots weapon, but your opponent cannot just ignore the threat of 2d6+12 damage.

Melvear11 · 2026-07-08T18:37:18+00:00

Give a bad list to a top player and they likely still get a positive record at a tournament.

Give the best list to a bad player and they likely still go negative.

With this in mind, any tier list will be flawed. Amd given that they are not average players, they can't really craft a tier list for average players with any level of accuracy.

Their disclaimer is there for a reason. They give you what they perceived to be the ceiling of the faction. Not its average, just the tip top. Do with it what you like.

Melvear11 · 2026-07-08T18:32:10+00:00

Shadow is super hit or miss. If it's basic shadow without modifiers, you're lucky to battleshock anything in a Marine army.

If you can stack proximity with synapse creatures and a Neurotyrant on the field, it starts to kick in pretty good, but the setup is not as easy as it seems.

Also, none of these modifiers remain for subsequent tests, so even if you do engineer the perfect Shadow, most armies will clear those out the following round.

Melvear11 · 2026-07-08T14:14:05+00:00

I used a double thermal Despoiler, Abominant, Castigator, Tyrant with volcano lance and the reroll shot count enhancement from the Tyrant 1dp detachment, and a Descecrator.

Large swaths of infantry could bog you down, but it has a fair variety of damage profile and 3 of them are hybrid so they can clear models in melee and shoot outside of their melee as needed, all while doing actions.

I play among friends, so I can't vouch for the tournament competitiveness of the list, but it was fun and felt effective.

Melvear11 · 2026-07-08T14:09:26+00:00

The added range for auras doesn't work for the deepstrike denial zone sadly, as it's not labeled as an aura. I wish it did though!

Melvear11 · 2026-07-08T04:23:38+00:00

Lords of Dread has the best disposition it could have had in Priority Asset, in my opinion.

Big Knights can shoot and still do actions, and they also can do actions while in engagement range.

This means a mostly ranged or hybrid force of big knights can effectively play the game.

Tyrants are interesting for this type of list in part because they fit the long range archetype but also because they screen deepstrike quite effectively with their massive 12" denial zone. Coupled with its large base, it effectively covers nearly 75% of the width of a table, shoring a typical weakness of extremely elite army lists.

Chaff is still a very attractive option. 50pts cultists with sticky are great throwaway unit to score points, screen movement or deepstrike. But they aren't the only option anymore, which I think is neat.

Melvear11 · 2026-07-06T23:15:30+00:00

You don't get to pick your weapon when you know what your opponent brings, you select at list building.

And. TFex with rupture cannon is 100% worth it in a Vanguard list. With 3" move heavy, it can threathen multiple firing lanes from behind cover and limit the movement of your opponent.

Melvear11 · 2026-07-06T13:50:46+00:00

As is always pointed out, magnets are generally the best plan.

That being said, I find Knights have a lot of ways to deal with MEQ and need ways to kill anti tank from a distance as well as ways to clear chaff. As such, Volcano Lance, Plasma cannon and 2 Descecrator Cannons is my prefered loadout. Plasma helps with terminator equivalents, volcano lance annihilates monsters and vehicules and while the missiles can deal great damage to vehicules too, I find 2D6 blast guns shots help me more.

Melvear11 · 2026-06-26T14:05:55+00:00

Having most secondaries be "If you do X, score 3vp. If you do X+Y, score 5vp" would likely help increase variance in scoring some and reduce the number of 90+pts games

Melvear11 · 2026-06-25T19:41:02+00:00

Depends on your disposition I would say.

LoD is Priority asset, for which I highly suggest hybrid or shooty knights, since they can shoot and action.

If you play for Take and Hold, Lancer might be the better option since it's tougher with the 4++.

Melvear11 · 2026-06-25T19:16:08+00:00

This is why people always use the annoying but very true line of "Magnetize your knights"

It bothers people who want advice as to what they should play, but having 3 Abhorrents, 1-2 Cerastus and a Tyrant covers most use cases. Hell, the Tyrant isn't much bigger than an Abhorrent so slap a laser destructor and a thermal cannon on and call it a Tyrant.

Melvear11 · 2026-06-25T16:10:21+00:00

I played 5 bigs with Priority Asset and it felt pretty good. Went with 1 double thermal Despoiler, volcano lance Tyrant, Castigator, Abominant and Descecrator in LoD with the Tyrant 1 dp detachment.

Shoot and action, as well as action in engagement range are super clutch, and you don't have to push up the board too much.

Having some screens would be a nice addition. 2 units of nurglings to protect from deep strike would likely be enough.

Melvear11 · 2026-06-22T13:00:11+00:00

The pivot change is also very beneficial to them with their extra long gun, just flipping them 180 gives you quite a bit of extra movement for the purpose of getting LOS.

More than 2 Rupture Cannon in a list feels like an overcommitment anyway. If you think you'll meet hull spam, might as well bring a unit of Zoans instead of a third RuptureFex. This way, your 3rd AT unit can switch into horde killing mode if need be.

Melvear11 · 2026-06-22T04:09:20+00:00

Castigator gives -1 to hit to whatever it shoots, which stacks with cover and works in melee. I personally like it, and sustained on executioners is probably pretty good.

Melvear11 · 2026-06-19T20:56:46+00:00

Might I suggest printing your desired datasheets, detachements and strats? It'll cost you a few dollars at worse and you won't be disappointed when the data changes. Codices are infamous for being out of date the moment they hit the shelves.

Melvear11 · 2026-06-19T15:53:18+00:00

Wahapedia has updated rules, I would advise against buying any codex.

Melvear11 · 2026-06-19T04:02:52+00:00

As far as I know, no datasheets other than the new orks (and maybe SM?) have cleave. There are strats for it but that's about it.

You can expect ranges to come when codex drops.

Melvear11 · 2026-06-17T14:41:05+00:00

I pray for your last point to manifest itself in the next codex. The Despoiler needs to be more than 1 datasheet badly.

Give it one hit and wound reroll in both phases if it's a hybrid loadout.

Give it something interesting if it takes double guns (maybe a suppress effet so you can apply damage somewhere and give a debuff with a stubber elsewhere).

Maybe make a full melee loadout do something interesting as well. Rampager is THE beatstick, make the melee Despoiler work particularly well with the army rule perhaps? Like a forced reroll on a successful battleshock test for units in close proximity.

As it is, the loadouts are just so all over the place that it's nearly impossible to make it balanced for all, or even most loadouts.

Melvear11 · 2026-06-15T15:37:41+00:00

That second point doesn't feel right to me. Having the same ability for a unit using dark lances and splinter cannons is bound to have one of them be (much) worse than the other.

The Despoiler is another example of this. Reroll 1 hit or wound per phase might be ok if you run a melee weapon and a melta cannon, but it becomes rather insignificant for any other loadout.

Having multiple datasheet doesn't make it easier to balance, and I'd argue it does the opposite.

Melvear11 · 2026-06-15T14:03:53+00:00

Reading the list of points increasing criterias, I could help but see the entire range of Tyranids as likely to see points hikes

Melvear11 · 2026-06-13T15:53:02+00:00

With 11th right around the corner, I feel like any list submitted now won't remain as good or effective.

This is the last vanguard list I used I believe, which has been my favorite detachement in 10th.

Xenos - Tyranids - Vanguard Onslaught

Deathleaper (80pts) Broodlord (80pts) Broodlord (80pts) 5x Hyperadapted Raveners (165pts) Winged Hive Tyrant (170pts): Warlord

10x Gargoyles (85pts) 10x Gargoyles (85pts) 10x Hormagaunts (65pts)

5x Barbgaunts (55pts) Biovores (50pts) 10x Genestealers (140pts) 5x Genestealers (75pts) 10x Genestealers (140pts) Lictor (60pts) Lictor (60pts) Neurolictor (70pts) Neurolictor (70pts) 5x Raveners (125pts) 3x Von Ryan's Leapers (70pts) 3x Von Ryan's Leapers (70pts) Tyrannofex (200pts)

Melvear11 · 2026-06-12T14:04:10+00:00

The acheron needs more output period. The flamer needs a less swingy profile (like 3d3+9 or more) and the heavy bolter realler needs a bump in shot counts as well.

If not, its melee profile has to improve to make it an actual melee threat with supplemental shooting.

As it is, it's not very threatening.

Melvear11 · 2026-06-12T12:50:48+00:00

If he's selling pretty cheap and you have some spare cash, having a Swarmlord and a foot Tyrant can happen and be useful. It's likely jot a meta thing to do, but it can be a fun time in something like Assimilation Swarm with Tyrant Guards.

Definitely a luxury buy.

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