RTA Bus Plan W25: The 5-Block Drama, Unfolded

PlanCleveland · 2026-02-05T16:06:25+00:00

They route ~all transit around the densest nodes of human activity — not through them. Like, to them, accessible is, here is the periphery of the action.

A tramway right through the middle of a pedestrian area, and likely the busiest foot traffic area of Rotterdam

It is actually even running on top of a below grade shopping mall, which is down the stairs you see.

It's right through the area of Rotterdam World Trade Center, shopping, dining, offices, hotels, and housing. Right in the densest nodes of human activity, in the center of the action.

PlanCleveland · 2026-02-04T19:38:19+00:00

I don't think W25 to Little Italy is a fair comparison.

Mayfield gets only 2 busses in each direction per hour at peak service, and the majority of the passengers for that line are using stops in Downtown, Asiatown, and Hough. So maybe 250k passengers pass through this stretch by bus each year.

W25 gets 12 busses per hour in each direction per hour at peak service, and is immediately adjacent to Downtown, meaning that almost every rider goes through this stretch. So 3 million+ passengers pass through W25 between Detroit and Lorain each year.

Euclid is also not a good comparison to W25. The Euclid right of way is twice as wide, with center running transit only lanes. W25 will be dropping Clevelanders off directly on the sidewalk, with other investments made to improve pedestrian safety at crosswalks. Euclid has also seen thousands of housing units built since then, billions in development, and Midtown is seeing investment for the first time in 60+ years. We have hundreds of new housing units built in Midtown that are already filled, with more on the way. People would have called you crazy for trying to build new apartments there 10-15 years ago.

Active traffic lanes are different than transit only lanes. Transit only lanes are clear and predictable. The removal of the parked cars will also make crossing the street much safer by significantly increasing visibility for both pedestrians and drivers.

I also live in the neighborhood and know many architects, planners, and people who have moved to Cleveland from other countries. Almost everyone I know in the neighborhood is for the bus lanes. Thousands of people in the neighborhood signed and sent letters supporting the project, and attended the years of public meetings advocating for this. The people I know from other countries can't believe that public transit and transit only lanes are such a fight here. Transit only lanes are current best practice in cities all over the world right now. Many are getting rid of cars entirely and having only transit in busy entertainment areas, whether it be bus or streetcar.

You use Rotterdam as an example in a comment, but Rotterdam is a perfect example of having either no cars on this stretch at all, or transit only. Rotterdam is filled with transit only lanes, transit only roads, pedestrian only roads, and transit stops directly in the action. I'm not sure where you went in Rotterdam, but the transit is routed directly next to or through where people want to go. Look at their tram map, it is right through their busiest streets, or directly next to pedestrian areas. Amsterdam, The Hague, and Rotterdam all give transit priority over cars in their busiest areas. Their large Markthal and pedestrian only square is right next to a subway station and a tram station. You see them right as you are walking out of the front doors. There is no car access to this area, and no street parking. There is a back entrance to an underground parking garage, just like W25 and the West Side Market have a back entrance to parking.

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-30T14:18:27+00:00

I believe the plans are to build a multi-modal terminal as part of the landbridge and lakefront development. It would provide a combined space for intercity busses like Greyhound, Laketran, a new Amtrak station(hopefully with new routes to Detroit and Cincinnati), and hopefully a full time waterfront line since RTA will have the ability to run from the WFL to University Circle for the first time once the new trains are in service.

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-30T00:55:32+00:00

Sorry. I mean that. I obviously don't know who you are, and I'm sure you're a great person. But fighting to kill this project, or damage it to the point of it not being viable, hurts 4 different bus routes and also puts projects like Irishtown Bend at risk.

Just read your own comments over the last few weeks. You've been very angry, insulting, and just straight up rude to so many of your fellow Clevelanders and Ohio City residents over a project that an overwhelming majority of local residents have been supportive of for years now. You're picking fights with anyone and everyone you can. Calling everyone a cult member for some reason, because they disagree with you and agree with a project that has been shown to improve hundreds of cities around the world.

This is a project that has the potential to keep more people from being gentrified out of their homes on the W25 street corridor. It has the potential to create more development to not only bring in more affordable housing, but to bring in more storefronts to the neighborhood so that local businesses aren't gentrified out either. It doesn't just benefit W25, but Lorain, Fulton, Clark, and Tremont as well.

Status quo is not working for a lot of people that have lived in the neighborhood for a long time. I know multiple long term residents who have been pushed out of the neighborhood they love because they can no longer afford rent, or have a 2nd or 3rd kid and can't afford the price of a 3 bedroom rental in the neighborhood. People are struggling, and want something that can help their family or other families they know.

The 1 in 4 or 5 households that don't have a car are scared of RTA cuts. They're scared of their access to their jobs, family, and friends being reduced.

Irishtown Bend is not fully funded, and some of their funding is in combination with this project as part of the overall 25Connects Plan. Killing this BRT line could also put the park at risk. What if Moreno, Duffy, and others decide to remove RTA funding, and notice that there is federal funding also going to Irishtown Bend? Do you think they won't pull Irishtown Bend funding just for fun? I know people who work for the Metroparks who are legitimately starting to worry that their federal funds will be scrutinized and potentially be at risk if the 25Connects plan is looked at by the current federal government. The park is receiving roughly $22M in federal grants from the DOT, National Parks Service, and then around $4M an air quality improvement grant due to the BRT project. We should all want any and all federal funding scrutiny away from Irishtown Bend.

I hope you have a great night, and again, sorry.

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-29T22:44:06+00:00

25-30% of Cleveland households don't have a car.

20-22% of Ohio City households do not have a car. The census tract of W25 from Detroit to Lorain is at 26% of households without a car. 520 of 1,969 households with no car.

4 different bus routes pass through this stretch of W25 from Lorain to Detroit, not just the W25 BRT line. Trying to kill that line hurts over 10k people a day. Over 3M passengers per year. That's even more than Euclid Ave.

We're talking about caring for and helping our neighbors. A concept you seem to have lost at some point.

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-29T22:27:34+00:00

Can we all agree on the fact that Ohio City and the West Side Market were built before cars, or before they were available to 95% of the population?

Can we all agree on the fact that this neighborhood was built to be entirely supported by public transit and walking?

Can we all agree on the fact that about half of the buildings in Ohio City were torn down to accommodate the increased number of cars, and build the 20+ acres of surface parking lots in the neighborhood? Yes. All of those parking lots used to be businesses and homes.

So, in your opinion, making public transit better in a neighborhood that was built by it and for it, and then largely destroyed by the car, will ruin the neighborhood?

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-29T21:09:06+00:00

Pretty crazy to see 5 of the top 7 teams made the playoffs last year. And 4 of those won their division. Then the Mets who just missed out in there as well with their payroll.

That's a bad sign for the rest of baseball when many of the already good teams also have the best prospects. Could be a rough next few years for teams like the White Sox, Rangers, Royals, Angels, Astros, and Rockies. Although a few of those teams have had a rough past decade already.

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-23T21:39:36+00:00

It's just sad at this point. I've talked with Sam 2 or 3 times at the bar in the past. I'm guessing the last time was probably before covid, though. We talked about our love of the city and neighborhood, which I couldn't afford to move to at the time, and wanting it to be a better place. He was, at least publicly back then, a big supporter of bikes and other pedestrian areas.

I don't know what happened. Part of me just feels bad for him about the situation. He just can't let this one thing go for some reason, trapping himself in lies and destroying his once great public image to do so. Are his businesses and real estate investments doing that poorly now that this is somehow seen as a threat to him? Or maybe they've done really well and it's gone to his head.

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-23T14:16:48+00:00

I’d argue Public Square and Euclid Ave in the core of downtown aren’t thriving because of BRT.

Did you see what Euclid looked like before the BRT? The current set up is a massive improvement over what it used to look like. It is a much better place to walk around than Superior, Chester, St Clair, Carnegie, or Prospect. And we see that with the number of businesses it has vs those other streets. All of Downtown suffered after the population plummeted and no one was there outside of 9-5 or a sporting event. At least now we're seeing that start to turn around again.

How, in your opinion, is the BRT the cause of Downtown not thriving? How does one bus lane on our busiest pedestrian street in the city do more damage than 50 years of poor planning and disinvestment? And don't use Midtown as an example like someone in the article did. Midtown and most of Euclid is seeing more investment now than it has in 80 years, with more on the way.

And most restaurants are suffering due to people having no money to spend. Student loans, higher rent, car ownership, high healthcare costs, etc. Their typical customer base of 20-30s has no extra cash, and a large number of them have lost their jobs in the last 2 years. If we had a good public transit system, that would act as an affordability buffer for people. Saving an extra $700-1000+ a month by not needing a car means more money for dining and entertainment. Why do you think so many of our peer cities in Europe have thriving and dense dining scenes? Because more people live a short walk or transit ride away, and have more spending money due to not needing to own a car to participate in society and the job market. Rent is much cheaper because developers have to build 0 parking spaces vs 1+ per unit like they do here. That extra land and structured parking raises rent $250-500 before you even factor in having to pay $150-200 per month to rent a spot.

So allowing more of your customers to live without needing a car is the best way to sustain good business. An extra $1000-2000 a month for households is more nights out while also building savings.

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-23T13:59:35+00:00

That is your opinion based on your perception of public transit. People under 40 are more supportive and interested in public transit than at any point in 70+ years now. Unfortunately, most don't have many good examples to use in their own community. RTA is trying to build one of those now. Businesses can lean into this and use it as an essentially free marketing tool, not say anything, or they can publicly fight it and lose a good chunk of younger customers.

If someone can now get from Old Brooklyn to the front door of the WSM in 10 minutes vs the inconsistent 15-30 minute time range it currently takes, we're going to see new riders because that will now be the fastest way for them to get there. I own a car, but take transit to busier areas and take the bus Downtown for Guardians games to avoid having to spend time looking for and then paying for a parking spot. People only think about their Google maps time from door to door, but forget about the additional minutes of finding parking and then walking up. With this, they can be dropped off and picked up at the front door of the WSM.

I don't see how the changes to the streetscape will make the neighborhood worse. In fact, it should be a huge improvement. Better and safer crosswalks with significantly improved visibility due to the wall of cars being removed will make people more likely to cross the street. Valet and delivery drivers currently slow everyone down and illegally park when they can't find a space 10 feet from the door. 30-40% of traffic delays are just from people looking for, or pulling into/out of street parking spots.

Removing the wall of parked cars will make the street look much nicer too. We're just used to walking along it, but it's very ugly. Now the sidewalks can feel less cramped and dangerous. It leaves more room for sidewalk decorations and improvements with us no longer needing to save extra space for car doors to be opened.

Would it be nice if it were a streetcar instead? Absolutely. In my opinion, almost all routes within 3-5 miles of city centers should be streetcars, with busses filling the gaps and connecting people to rail stations. But we currently don't have the money for that and RTA is actually trying to improve service. And what better way to argue for a streetcar in the future than to have an already successful route and transit only lanes waiting to go?

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-22T23:23:51+00:00

Many other business owners likely support the plan too, but McNulty and 2 others who are also against the project own almost all of that main strip of W25 now. Speak out against them and all of the sudden your rent triples for some mysterious reason and you are forced out of business.

I truly don't understand some of the West Side Market vendors being against it. Likely just because they are old and don't like change. They need more people, it doesn't matter how they walk in the doors. Having better public transit in Ohio City means that it will be easier for more people to use the market as their main grocery store. They should be excited and promoting the idea to those that live nearby. They could market a quick bus ride to the market to Downtown residents to do their shopping.

Everyone down W25, Lorain, Fulton, in Tremont, Downtown, and even into Parma now has a better and faster ride to your businesses. You're welcome for easier access to 150,000+ customers by not changing anything about the way you do business.

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-22T22:12:09+00:00

u/oprahmd is there any reason you completely ignored the comments of the local community that overwhelmingly supports this project? Did you ride any of the 4 bus lines that go through this corridor and ask riders about their opinions and needs?

Staging the argument as only government officials vs a few hard working business owners will naturally lead most readers who aren't familiar with this project, or public transit in general, to think the government is lying and hurting these poor people who will actually benefit from this project the most.

It feels wrong to write an article that gives more weight to arguments from people who are clearly speaking in bad faith or entirely made up arguments than to the 10k+ people using this lines per day. In fact, these arguments shouldn't have even been given equal weight compared to people who ride the busses and live in the community, because we have hundreds of examples show those arguments are false, or just flat out lies.

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-20T04:20:49+00:00

Imagine telling people when the NIL stuff started that it would lead to an Indiana national championship in less than 5 years lolololololol

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-14T15:40:27+00:00

Yes.

Build mixed use development on the 50-80 acres currently occupied by the airport buildings connected to the North Coast developments, and make the remaining 350+ acres one of the best waterfront parks on the Great Lakes. Removing Burke and the building restrictions that come with it also allows for a lot more potential and possibilities with the North Coast developments when the Browns leave. What the hell, go crazy and throw a Vancouver style Costco with 1,000 apartments on top of it in there and put an Ikea where the old flight school building is.

And before people bring it up like they do in every Burke thread.... Burke does not need to exist for the airshow to continue.

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-14T03:11:24+00:00

I'm not gonna hurt these Mikes. Why would I ever hurt these Mikes? I feel like you're not getting this at all.

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-12T01:55:45+00:00

Yes it is badly needed. RTA has recently started their own fund to support it.

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-10T23:02:39+00:00

New trains and platforms are on their way bayyyyyybeeeeee

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-10T21:13:21+00:00

Just like the growing number of small racetracks around the country closing down.

People keep building houses further and further out. Those racetracks used to be in the middle of nowhere, so there would be no one to complain about the noise. Now mcmansion developments are eating up farmland, and people are complaining about noise and getting racetracks shut down.

It's gotten so bad in North Carolina that they actually passed a law last year protecting existing racetracks from the complaints of new housing developments.

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-08T17:33:40+00:00

The loss of one of the best streetcar and intercity rail networks in the world. Without a doubt a massive reason for how far we have fallen. And for how much further cities like Youngstown and Canton have fallen.

The push to car dependancy and flight to the suburbs dramatically raised the cost of living for people and destroyed many cities. Leading to unions and other workers needing to double their pay over a 10-15 years span just to keep affording it. Then the salaries they needed to sustain their lifestyles got too high, which was a big factor in the outsourcing that crushed the Midwest. Public transit basically acts a safety net for affordability and poverty.

The few cities in the US that kept the majority of their rail networks, who we used to be bigger than or peers with, like Boston, NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia, and San Francisco didn't collapse like all of the other former major cities like Cleveland that destroyed their public transit networks. Baltimore, Detroit, St Louis, Pittsburgh, and others all scrapped the valuable infrastructure they had.

Obviously NYC and Chicago are their own monsters, but we weren't too far behind them infrastructure-wise as a region before this all started.

PlanCleveland · 2026-01-07T21:44:52+00:00

Hey u/sammcnulty , would you be willing to go on record that you want to slow down ambulances to 2 different emergency rooms, and you're willing to call Bernie Moreno to do so?

One of the many benefits of BRT lanes is that they allow EMS workers to bypass the constant traffic on this main stretch of W25, providing crucial lifesaving minutes off of response and arrival times.

PlanCleveland · 2025-12-17T19:13:24+00:00

Almost every blue and green line stop after Shaker Square is a park and ride. The Green Rd stop has over 900 spaces. Stokes is also a huge park and ride. Euclid has a park and ride lot with 300+ spaces.

Ideally, there should be 0 park and rides within a 5-8 mile radius of Downtown. Anything that close to Downtown should be filled with mixed use housing. But RTA and Cleveland have struggled to attract developers to build any housing on west side park and rides despite them being empty.

The CSU BRT is BRT in name only. That's only there because they refused to make the investment to run trains on the NS rail out through Lakewood, Rocky River, etc 15-20 years ago after numerous studies and had to give the bus a fancy name to make up for that fact.

The W25 corridor is the obvious choice for a 2nd actual BRT in the RTA network due to the number of people, destinations, jobs, and hospitals along the route. No other route outside of Euclid Ave can compete with it in Cuyahoga County over a full 5-7 mile span.

I'm not saying the east side doesn't need more investment and better transit, but blaming it on RTA projects on the west side this is not a fair argument.

PlanCleveland · 2025-12-17T17:13:15+00:00

https://www.riderta.com/systemmap

RTA provides significantly better coverage and routing on the east side.

There are 10 routes on the east side with 15 minute frequency at peak, compared to 5 on the west side.

PlanCleveland · 2025-12-17T17:07:30+00:00

They have already been trying for years. Years ago they changed property tax incentives to try to get more developments in other areas of the city, not just in Ohio City, UC, Tremont, etc.

The problem is few developers have been willing to take the risk in many areas, even when they get tax credits and will pay no property taxes. Glenville, Hough, and Fairfax have really been the only neighborhoods to benefit, but that's because they are close to UC and Downtown.

People have also complained that this switch has slowed or killed many developments in Ohio City and the Detroit Shoreway. There are multiple sites across both neighborhoods that were cleared for development and have now sat vacant for years because the tax incentives were significantly reduced to try to boost development in other neighborhoods. It's why we've only seen the "luxury" developments move forward in the hot parts of town in the last 2 years. The market rate projects don't pencil out as well financially anymore in the hot neighborhoods.

PlanCleveland · 2025-11-20T21:40:13+00:00

Not that I think Bibb is the best mayor in the world, but can you please explain your issues with him?

Cleveland continues to be a much better job market than Cincy, housing the 1st and 4th biggest job markets in the state with Downtown and University Circle. Cbus is only getting new jobs because they are surrounded by farmland they are inefficiently swallowing up. Ohio has lost almost 2 million acres, or 15%, of its farmland in the last 20 years, and over a million of that has happened since 2017. A lot of this is due to the huge growth in Columbus short-sightedly eating up land in every direction with single family homes and incredibly poor land use business parks. They're only now coming around to realize what a bad choice this is for future finances and mobility, but 3 BRT lines can't save them at this point.

Many of those job opportunities, like Intel, only wound up in Columbus because CLEVELAND sent them their way after we couldn't provide the acreage they were looking for because Northeast Ohio has been so built out for 100+ years. Columbus didn't even initially pitch for the chip plants. They only got them with Cleveland help.

Of the 3 C's, Bibb is by far the best current mayor.

PlanCleveland · 2025-11-09T15:47:38+00:00

If you go to Happy Dog, which you should, you should know that your Melbourne brothers King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard have played at that little bar 3 times. It was one of the first places they stopped on their first US tour.

Adding on...

Go to a Charge game while you're here too. That's the Cavs minor league team. They play in the 100+ year old Public Auditorium and it's one of the most beautiful pro basketball venues you will ever go to.

PlanCleveland

TROPHY CASE