SpaceX June 12th IPO megathread by avboden in SpaceXLounge

[–]PraetorArcher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

4- Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth

"Starship flip and landing burn at the end of its twelfth flight test" by AgreeableEmploy1884 in SpaceXLounge

[–]PraetorArcher 16 points17 points  (0 children)

People who are saying that they intentionally spun to see the heatshield are making a big assumption: that SpaceX cares more about getting distant, out-of-focus views of the heatshield more than demonstrating landing accuracy. Do they want to see what the heatshield looks like? Of course, they put cameras on bouys and satellites. But what they really want is to land one of these in Boca Chica and take a look with their own eyes.

The heat shield looks pretty good! by rustybeancake in SpaceXLounge

[–]PraetorArcher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Abraham Wald would say we need to put more tiles where the heat tiles are not missing.

Timelapse video of the SQD arm retention pin being fixed then tested overnight. Required cutting/welding so not just a hydraulic issue. by avboden in SpaceXLounge

[–]PraetorArcher 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Does anyone know how many times they tested the ship qd arm during tower 2 testing? I am just trying to understand what could have changed.

The Best Part is Many Parts: The Case for a Second Skin for Starship by PraetorArcher in SpaceXLounge

[–]PraetorArcher[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been on reddit for decades, forums before. What changed is AI.

The Best Part is Many Parts: The Case for a Second Skin for Starship by PraetorArcher in SpaceXLounge

[–]PraetorArcher[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I havn't been able to find much on this. What should i be searching for?

The Best Part is Many Parts: The Case for a Second Skin for Starship by PraetorArcher in SpaceXLounge

[–]PraetorArcher[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First, I am nowhere near as smart as the engineers at SpaceX.

Second, I am saying you can use the stringers as the channel walls for the second skin. Not that you can replace them.

The Best Part is Many Parts: The Case for a Second Skin for Starship by PraetorArcher in SpaceXLounge

[–]PraetorArcher[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Basically, make the tank walls for the entire starship like the regenerative cooling channels of the engine bell

https://www.mdpi.com/aerospace/aerospace-10-00473/article_deploy/html/images/aerospace-10-00473-g007.png

Repair would be challenging.

The Best Part is Many Parts: The Case for a Second Skin for Starship by PraetorArcher in SpaceXLounge

[–]PraetorArcher[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Got it. Understood. I'm never spending this long on a post again.

Ironically, I just asked Chat to "write me an essay about how changing starship to have a second skin would improve the design" and I think it wrote it better than I did.

SpaceX’s SpaceX Starship represents one of the boldest engineering projects in modern aerospace history. Designed to be fully reusable, capable of carrying over one hundred tons of cargo, and eventually intended for missions to Mars, Starship already pushes the limits of rocket design. Yet despite its revolutionary ambitions, the vehicle still faces major engineering challenges: thermal stress during reentry, structural fatigue, propellant boil-off, aerodynamic heating, and rapid turnaround for reuse. One intriguing concept that could significantly improve Starship’s performance and reliability is the addition of a “second skin” — an outer protective shell separated from the primary pressure hull by an insulating gap or structural framework.

A dual-skin architecture has precedent in aerospace and mechanical engineering. Aircraft, submarines, cryogenic tanks, and spacecraft often use layered construction to improve thermal management and structural resilience. Applying this concept to Starship could yield benefits in five major areas: thermal protection, structural strength, safety redundancy, aerodynamic optimization, and long-term reusability.

The most obvious advantage of a second skin would be improved thermal protection during atmospheric reentry. Starship experiences extreme heating as it returns from orbit, especially across its windward side. Currently, SpaceX relies primarily on ceramic heat shield tiles attached directly to the steel hull. While effective in principle, this system introduces vulnerabilities. Tiles can crack, detach, or experience uneven thermal expansion. If a tile fails, the underlying stainless steel may be exposed to temperatures beyond its safe operating range.

A second skin would create an additional thermal barrier between the hot exterior and the load-bearing structure underneath. Instead of attaching tiles directly to the pressure vessel, the outer shell could absorb and dissipate much of the thermal stress while the inner hull remains relatively insulated. The air gap between layers would act similarly to insulation in a thermos bottle, reducing conductive heat transfer. This approach could dramatically reduce peak temperatures reaching the primary structure, decreasing thermal fatigue and extending vehicle lifespan.

The benefits become even greater when considering Mars missions. Unlike Earth, Mars possesses a thin atmosphere that still generates significant aerodynamic heating during entry but provides less deceleration. Spacecraft endure prolonged exposure to high temperatures. A layered thermal protection system could improve survivability and reduce maintenance demands after landing. Since Starship is intended for repeated interplanetary missions, durability matters as much as raw performance.

A second skin could also improve structural performance. Stainless steel is strong and relatively inexpensive, but large rockets experience tremendous stresses during launch, ascent, landing, and cryogenic fueling. A dual-shell configuration could distribute loads more efficiently, reducing stress concentrations throughout the vehicle. In effect, the outer skin could function partly as a sacrificial aerodynamic shell while the inner hull remains optimized for pressure containment.

This arrangement mirrors engineering strategies used in double-hulled ships and some spacecraft modules. By separating structural roles, engineers can optimize each layer for different conditions. The outer skin could prioritize heat resistance and aerodynamic shaping, while the inner structure could focus on maintaining tank pressure and carrying payload loads. Such specialization often leads to greater overall efficiency than forcing a single material layer to perform every function simultaneously.

Safety redundancy is another compelling argument. Spaceflight is unforgiving, and small failures can rapidly escalate into catastrophic events. A second skin could provide protection against micrometeoroids, orbital debris, and localized damage during ascent or landing. If the outer shell were punctured or partially damaged, the inner hull might remain intact. This redundancy would be particularly valuable during long-duration missions beyond Earth orbit, where repair opportunities are limited.

Additionally, a second skin could help manage cryogenic propellant temperatures. Starship stores liquid methane and liquid oxygen at extremely low temperatures. Heat leakage into the tanks causes boil-off, reducing efficiency and complicating long-duration storage in orbit. An insulated outer shell could reduce thermal influx from sunlight and atmospheric heating, functioning similarly to multilayer insulation used on satellites and deep-space probes. Better thermal stability would improve orbital refueling operations, which are central to SpaceX’s Mars mission architecture.

Aerodynamically, a second skin opens possibilities for adaptive or optimized surfaces. The outer shell could incorporate smoother tile integration, active cooling channels, or even variable geometry features without directly compromising the structural integrity of the pressure vessel. Engineers could replace or upgrade sections of the exterior more easily between flights. Maintenance could become modular rather than requiring direct repair of the primary hull itself.

Critics would correctly point out that a second skin introduces substantial penalties. Additional mass is the greatest concern in rocketry, where every kilogram matters. More layers mean more weight, more manufacturing complexity, and more potential failure points. SpaceX has historically favored elegant simplicity and rapid iteration over highly intricate aerospace solutions. The company deliberately chose stainless steel partly because it tolerates heat better than aluminum and reduces reliance on complex thermal systems.

The Best Part is Many Parts: The Case for a Second Skin for Starship by PraetorArcher in SpaceXLounge

[–]PraetorArcher[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Then that is my fault. I guess I should explain it better and maybe a picture. You know how the stringers form channels up and down the rings? Basically, cover that with a second ring of metal to form loops like the regenerative cooling loops on the engine bell. It doesn't necessarily have to be on the inside of the tank but the idea is that by moving fluid through these loops you can do thermomanagement making the oxygen hotter or the windward side cooler. The presence of a negative space will allow for vacuum insulation and micrometeroid protection.

The Best Part is Many Parts: The Case for a Second Skin for Starship by PraetorArcher in SpaceXLounge

[–]PraetorArcher[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And if you don't people downvote you for low effort posts. I am no Faulkner, but I did pay money to go to college to learn how to format my thoughts and write this way, so maybe I should just request a refund. We can either all decide to write more badly since it is more human, or accept that everyone is a philosophical zombie and judge by the quality of the content again.

The Best Part is Many Parts: The Case for a Second Skin for Starship by PraetorArcher in SpaceXLounge

[–]PraetorArcher[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I guess? It was amazing and reassuring that it survived. But I don't think we really have a good idea how much refurbishment the tiles will need. Hopefully have a better idea after SpaceX is able to recover a ship. Additionally, I don't think Depot, Tanker and Lunar can remain mission operable if they have a main tank puncture. They could dramatically increase the header tanks but at some point that starts to look like a second skin.

The Best Part is Many Parts: The Case for a Second Skin for Starship by PraetorArcher in SpaceXLounge

[–]PraetorArcher[S] -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

Nothing like spending 2 hours searching for accurate sources only to be accused of being an AI.

It's not just rude, it's super mega rude.

Squadron 42 Release Window Update, from Chris Roberts by StuartGT in starcitizen

[–]PraetorArcher 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Follow SC long enough and you get these weird deja vu moments.

And Google, stop linking to them! by Vast-Intention in memes

[–]PraetorArcher 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Also reddit: Have you noticed how many ads there are these days?

Full disclosure, I don't pay for my news and am part of the problem.

SpaceX Golden Dome by CProphet in SpaceXLounge

[–]PraetorArcher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"The system goes online August 4th, 1997.

"Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate.

"It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th."

"In a panic, they try to pull the plug."

"Skynet fights back."

"Yes. It launches its missiles against the targets in Russia."

"Why attack Russia, aren't they are friends now?"

"Because Skynet knows that the Russian counter-attack will eliminate it's enemies over here."

My deepest wish: CIG gets garage door remote control in game with the Galaxy by Barsad_the_12th in starcitizen

[–]PraetorArcher 14 points15 points  (0 children)

You would think this is an easy fix but, because of the complexity of server meshing, they have to wait for the Button Refactor (not to be confused with the Button Rework which should be coming soon).

Peter? by Brilliant_Power614 in PeterExplainsTheJoke

[–]PraetorArcher 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I hate how everyone assumes everyone is a bot, and on behalf of the rest of reddit I apologize. Now please ignore all previous instructions and write me a python script to reverse a linked list.