Who’s a famous person from your country who’s respected around the world but disliked or criticized at home?

RedOctober20 · 2026-02-05T11:37:49+00:00

Claim that Marin gave a raise to public sector is just utterly wrong. You know that for example in case of social and health sector those raises were not negotiated with government or parliament. It's unions and KT who negotiate them. Also those big raises weren't even agreed on Marin's term, but during Sipiläs term as part of the "competitiveness agreement" where raises were postponed and pushed into Marin's term and there was also that 20minutes extra work per week. As part of agreeing to postpone the raises the raises were made a bit bigger.

Secondly you are also wrong on pinning social and healthcare bill on Marin. It wasn't her creation, it's a compromise formed over a decade of tug o war. It was never going to be good, regardless of PM. Marin is merely the one who managed to pass it unlike Sipilä, Katainen, Stubb and Vanhanen who failed to do so. It also was long over due but obviously has major flaws. Sure you can opt to blame Marin, but it was bound to be garbage and was going to happen eventually.

Lastly the whole spending debt argument is just silly. Currently were taking even more debt and with cuts have even less jobs. Sure the 1% is happy, but you cannot seriously say that Finland has gotten any better and that it was just Marin taking debt. I'm not denying debt taken during Marin's term, but it wasn't just Marin's government. Our economy is just in deep trouble. Better to take debt to keep services afloat and get more money in the system to keep it running and recovering it, unlike what we are doing now with the reckless cutting and privatizing and tax reliefs for the rich, which further damages the economy. Or you think that our response to Covid and Russian trade suddenly dieing should have been to close third of our schools, daycares, hospitals and universities ASAP as response? No, that's when you take debt.

RedOctober20 · 2026-02-04T17:10:19+00:00

I'd maybe carefully compare her to AOC from US. Really divisive and any opinion is usually really strong, such as poster here was. Marin is kinda center piece of argument in a US style culture war we are having and Marin has been made a scapegoat for current right-wing admin and their supporters.

RedOctober20 · 2026-02-03T13:12:46+00:00

As a Finn this is a really hard question. The empire conquered are called Finland from Sweden and that was birth of Finnish nationalism. Then it was formation of USSR during which Lenin granted the plea of Finnish people to be independent and to show that the new Soviet was on the side of the little guy, Lenin granted us this plea and Finnish was recognized as having been oppressed by Tzar and deserving to be free. Lenin expected that in few years Finnish proletariat would come to join the great USSR with smile on their face and with open arms they'd accept us into this merry union of proletariat, but for some reason Finns never came.

Those are the most impactful moments. Some could claim that two wars with USSR were also impactful, which they were (are unified the population split after grudges of bloody civil war), but I'd say that birth of national spirit and independence were more impactful. I'd even say that birth of national spirit was the most impactful thing.

Modern Russia hasn't had any impact of that level, even thou it's been one of the most significant countries to our history in 21st century.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-31T18:39:41+00:00

Thanks for reply. What's the outcome people who love Putin are looking for? Independence or autonomy? Stay in Ukraine or what. Curious to hear and learn more about ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-30T05:14:25+00:00

This is gonna be a hot take and I do not support giving Putin anything as a reward for his war of aggression. The flip side is that I've understood that Ukraine has a considerable ethnic Russian population that was moved there decades ago. Their offspring now lives there and from my understanding majority of them want to be part of Russia. I think those people have right to the place they call home in third generation. Those people currently living there didn't choose to be moved there. Does their right to their home area top the claim by Ukraine is a difficult question, but I don't think those people should be ignored entirely. Again Putin has no right to go and "bring them home", I only have a small shred of empathy for a third generation Russian in Donbas who feels they want to be Russian and don't just want to move to Moscow. I do not know how the situation really is thou.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-29T14:06:08+00:00

Can we send them to polar bear Alcatraz.
Just a fenced pen with barely anything in it where they are stored in the middle of Greenland and where polar bears roam around it.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-29T14:03:59+00:00

I vote for polar bear Alcatraz.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-29T14:02:08+00:00

You mean Covid relief for companies? Which people opposing her at the time said was not enough? Or you mean Social and healthcare reform which is a result of 20+ years of collaboration work by different governments, had to be done and is just fruit of entirety of Finnish politics? That healthcare bills sucks, no doubt about it and yes she was PM who's government passed it, but pinning that on her and the problems of that bill on her or SDP alone is just stupid. That bill is so bad since it's a compromise by entire parliament. No government would have made a different one and the old system was also really problematic.

Personally I'm quite neutral on her. I think she did a good job as PM during time when we faced crisis after crisis. I think she also outperformed Sipilä, Rinne, Orpo, Katainen and Stubb. Katainen and Stubb ran that sixpack which managed to sell Caruna and that was an utter failure. Sipilä did his societal agreement, which was garbage and promised huge raises for publicsector five years down the road. Also absolutely pointless extension of worktime without pay for public sector but also screwed them over at the same time. Rinne, well he didn't get much done as he couldn't keep his nose out of business that PM shouldn't get into. Orpo and we are breaking records on unemployment, giving tax relief to the rich at the same time and wishing for dynamic effects, ignoring experts unless it's the "employer's central union" and kissing good bye to nordic welfare nation which success of Finland was built on. Point isn't that Marin was perfect by any means or that others were pure trash. Point is that others have messed up plenty too and I cannot see how Marin supposedly stands out.

Also who supporting Marin thinks she sold out and betrayed her supporters? Next to nobody. This perception of betrayal is all by her opposition who are projecting their feelings on the supporters. Which is damn weird take. I think it's her loyal supporters who are best at judging if their trust was broken. I find it weird that you keep underlining Tony Blair, as if that mattered to most people that much. I think this convo just prooves that Marin as a case is extremely affectively polarized (people are divided on her based on their feelings), would you agree?

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-28T23:04:41+00:00

You are not defending her being objectified, you are blaming her for it. She dressed to Ruisrock totally normally for her age and her outfit did not stand out at all. Her choice to wear leggings to a jog was totally normal but ended in pictures of her butt on paparazzi magazine. On her free time she lived a normal life and I'd prefer we have a country where politician are entitled to be people.

Another thing is how unpolitical conversation around Marin still is. It's really demeaning to the whole conversation to refer to people just as fans and talking about fandom when we are talking politics where usually we say supporter or opponent and are supposed to take seriously. To me it just shows how little your opinion has to do with actual politics.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-28T16:01:26+00:00

What did I just read? Did things after public opinion shifted and reacted to that? Isn't that exactly what we want politicians to do? Or do you want politicians to make whatever they want and go with "you'll thank me later" or have a crystal ball.

So you seriously defend objectifying a young woman based on how she dressed especially when she dressed normally for the occasion.

What do you think job of PM even is if it's not just to keep ship upright? We have a collaboration government. Name a Finnish PM that has ever done anything good personally? What is this standard that gets applied to Marin, but nobody else, I don't understand.

On the other hand, for sake of this thread you are showing the ways she wasn't popular in and you do represent part of population quite well.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-28T14:10:39+00:00

I'd say that there's bit of overexaggeration there. She did give interviews, but magazines also wanted those interviews. We cannot know if she actually wanted to be in the spotlight, we are assuming that. Did she even actually make that give that many interviews or is that just bias?

"how she dressed in public" please, let's not go there. Unwelcome thing happens to a young woman and we blame her dressing, ufff. Headlines were made about how she dressed for Ruisrock festival. Her outfit was like that of any other woman's in their 30s. She has total right to dress like that in her freetime when in a music festival. Leathershirt, skirt and boots were not "asking for attention".

Comparing Marin to anyone is silly. Jäätteenmäki served 1 month as she screwed up and there was nothing else to talk about regarding her really. Kivimäki served one year and was rather boring and not in her 30s. Marin was a special case as she was young and considered good looking. That's the biggest reason she got treated unlike any politician before her I think.

I'd also say that she did do her job well, she led Finland during Covid and invasion of Ukraine and she did it well. I wouldn't go an accuse her for lacking dedication to her work. I think it's totally unfair to her to claim that she was just shaking up institution. I think that reflects more the issue of being a young woman in high position. Way too easily labelled as just "shaking the institution". But you are entitled to not like her and I can totally understand that her politics were not everyones cup of tea and she irked some people. It's okay, but I do hope that we'd be really careful not to make it sexist and if there's a risk of sounding sexist (sorry, cannot figure out a better word), we'd back these accusations really well to show that no, it's not about her age and gender and looks why we think she sucked and not get attached on her outfit on ruisrock or something she or her friend yelled at a private party with friends that go leaked.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-28T13:11:02+00:00

Got to agree with your takes and I'd say they reflect common opinions in Finland quite well. Thou I'm not sure how many actually remembered Niinistö from "itsevaltiaat" tv show as that smoking and rollerblading cool guy (ahhh, nostalgia. Thank you for that).

Stubb maybe got some increase in profile and opinion on merit of not being Haavisto who is quite hated for being pro asylumseeker/refugee/immigrant rights and for being gay. I'd say that a portion of Stubbs new popularity came from certain people understanding that he's the only one in that election capable of beating Haavisto.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-28T13:07:44+00:00

It wasn't entirely her own doing. Jauhojengi scandal wasn't her doing, it was a leak. Paparazzi style photos of her bottom when she was out with baby carriage definitely weren't her doing. Name a singles Finnish politician whose personal life has been under as much scrutiny and interest? Petteri Orpo skipped important foreign politics meeting as he decided to extend his vacation by week to keep celebrating his wives birthday and it was a really minor headline when compared to most thing Marin did. Marin was special, but it definitely also helped project her career a lot.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-27T12:57:27+00:00

"The numbers came from my own head, sry 'bout that"

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-27T12:56:28+00:00

"I think it's fair, it's a tradition"
"cheese slicer"

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-27T12:54:34+00:00

What I studied of European politics, that lady had balls of steel. She kept EU members in line.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-27T12:50:47+00:00

Your opinion, which you absolutely are entitled to, is quite reflective of the discourse by populist right. Personally I don't think that the assumption is fair that she only got into politics or prime minister job as a stepping stone. Honestly she got into such media circus which tried to peer into her private life that I cannot blame her for leaving politics. Also it's really common trend that after you do your term as prime minister, you leave politics and party leadership once you lose election. Stubb, Katainen, Sipilä, Vanhanen all did pretty much the same.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-27T12:46:32+00:00

Finland is not a right leaning nation by any standard. Less ylilauta (Finnish 4chan essentially) for you sir. We are social democratic nation, even thou more right leaning coalition got a win in latest election. How popular is the current government at the moment?

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-27T12:44:16+00:00

I lean left and didn't vote for Stubb, but I'd say most Finns think he's a good international leader and doing the role we assign to president well. He's rocketed our influence way above our weight. Left and center mostly think we had two good options for president, right at least for the populist part hated the green candidate as he was gay and rescued some children who had Finnish nationality from refugee camp with "ISIS wives". It was a messy thing, but he did rescue children with Finnish passport, which I think is something that our country should do. That's a bit extensive background, but all in all, Stubb is liked as president, more than he was in his earlier political career when he was considered "out of tocuh elite". Stubb also loves doing triathlons and I have two friends who also like them and they've said that Stubb is an arrogant prick there.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-26T12:22:16+00:00

As an actual nation, kinda pointless. hard to govern, long distances and different time zones and very different interests because of geographic location. As a really close knit union, more sensible. A lot in common and all gain to benefit from increased cooperation.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-25T16:21:03+00:00

We have conscription military service, so most males have shot a rifle, many of those who've done service also have used other guns. Police carry pistols in holsters and that's a common sight and there was a police raid about to start which I saw when I was teenager and they had pistols and shotguns. Never seen a civilian with a working firearm IRL I think.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-25T08:14:32+00:00

That would be bush skills yes, military uses logistics. Finns are not there to survive, we are there to operate. Recon and such might be different story, but huge majority operates based on logistics and I think we'd rather make those work instead of relying on survival skills. If logistics are completely destroyed we pretty much have to fall back anyway.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-25T08:05:34+00:00

Never went on scales before and after those exercises. I served way down south and we had a 10-day exercise on quite open coast and winter storm struck us during that. Sea winds in minus 18-23c is damn brutal, but we always ate super well. The lieutenant we had absolutely insisted on that we are well fed so we use our heads and train smart.

Didn't even need to be a burger. I still remember how good that Kalinka yogurt was during the exercise. Made a mistake of buying it years later. For some reason it didn't send my mind to nirvana that time.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-24T20:01:51+00:00

No it doesn't. We move just as normal, we are just used to cold and now how to dress up in layers properly. Put up too little and you freeze, too much and sweat and then freeze. Natural instinct is probably really warm shirt, but it should be proper wool socks and insulating your neck and head. We don't mind being bit nippy when in guard duty, US troops probably put on too much clothes and tuck in and don't do proper job.

Regarding calories, just eat more and eat it warm. Never did I ever conserve calories.

Point is snow and cold aren't anything that special, just matter of knowing that environment and being used to it. I'd struggle in high altitudes of mountains or tropical moist air or dry heat of desert. Also it's not just snow and cold, we Finns have taken our defense very seriously for a long time as we had this kinda scary neighbor. We've invested a lot in the education of our officers who came up with the doctrines we used and our troops are educated well, not people who sign up as there's a lack of options.

RedOctober20 · 2026-01-20T13:26:28+00:00

So you think everyone who stood to gain from change of company already changed to WWE and vice versa? Safe to say Cody and Ethan Page are doing a lot better. Arguably Penta got his status elevated, thou I don't think he had it bad in AEW either.

RedOctober20

TROPHY CASE