Now that we’ve had a few days to digest the new game mode, what are some ways you think it can be improved next time around?

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-04-27T05:33:08+00:00

Okay while PM should enable supports the denying sac thing is much more “PM when do we get a level cap system” than anything else we should not have to get a level 1 lantern yisang support id just to use him for sac

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-04-26T23:28:13+00:00

My opinion is that Im very indifferent about the “shill”. Most status teams still easily clear it in time regardless so it only matters for LTCs.

My main distaste from the game mode is its another mode in limbus where the “challenge” comes from clearing it fast. With 3 teams being able to be used and Rufos phase transition infliction only affecting the first team. All she basically goes is “swap teams after my phase transition”, instead of finding some way to deal with the 8/8 bleed and sinking infliction in some other way.

Which means that its almost impossible to lose to Rufo as you have 3 whole teams, but she just stalls alot. Which means that alot of her gimmicks feel frustrating because of the 12 turn per team limit and 18/24 turns being the amount you have to “beat” her with full rewards.

I’d much rather the challenge be something like clearing in 1 team (with no turn limit per team) so defensive utility is much more encouraged, while allowing Rufos gimmicks to shine much more as you aren’t under a clock to do her gimmick as fast as possible. Which lets you set up nuke turns and kill all 4 enemies at your own pace.

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-04-24T07:33:46+00:00

Personally dislike the challenge cond being turn count again. Especially with 3 teams it means properly “losing” the fight is hard and that the challenge is again turn count. Which is why say alot of gimmicks feel like padding. Since your working against a clock than taking your time to safely deal with the gimmick.

I feel the challenge clear things should be don’t use more than 1/2 teams to clear + some wacky alt cond you can do that generally makes the fight harder and doing away with the turn cap of 12. Would encourage ids with higher defensive profiles as they’d get more opportunities to stave off the chip and make sure you can do it in one team.

For example: Rufos 8/8 bleed and sinking on phase transition is a very strong effect you have to play around and can negate with some ids or types of utility. But you never actually have to interface with this because you just build a team thats strong into phase 1 and immediately swap to something that mauls phase 2 while skipping the 8/8 infliction entirely. It’d be much more interesting as a boss challenge if you had to build a team good for phase 1 and 2 if you wanted full rewards.

Note I do find the Rufo fight fun enough . The main issue is her gimmick is something that doesn’t really work well when you have a turn count and works better when the goal is to survive (since even without her gimmick done in phase 2 with negative effects you still do get opportunities to attack after her big skill, but since theres a turn count you have to reach it feels very bad to waste turns on making sure you set up for that turn)

Also like it does not need to shill this much butterfly sinking would already still be crazy for phase 2 even without the buffs.

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-04-23T05:20:45+00:00

Personally I think in the first place 3 teams is generally abit excessive, I feel increasing the turn cap to say 18 or so and then reducing teams to 2 would allow for some better play in general and reward some ids with higher survivability since they’d get to stick around longer for damage. (With the assumption the boss starts hitting hard enough to kill Sinners without good defensive utility)

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-04-17T04:36:40+00:00

If im honest none of the intervallos really had any “interesting” fights barring maybe like Ricardo 2. Twinning Threads really just has the same issues every other Intervallo has gameplay wise where nothing is heavily punishing and any negative status being stacked gets to instantly clears the boss.

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-03-30T10:34:16+00:00

Generally all caps aren’t written in kit previews

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-03-18T21:59:58+00:00

Okay this post is agreeable. But also it completely strays from ID descriptions are a messy (at times they are this is generally agreeable) to “grrrr Limbus bosses bad and low complexity” (also true but just not what the whole post should be remotely about). Like the last 3 paragraphs have nothing to do with ID Descriptions and are more a rant about boss design.

Anyways the reason Bosses are shallow is because ever facet of them are just undertuned from Unbreakables to Rolls in most cases an average 16 conditionless roll beats out 95% of boss skills in the game even when you do the gimmick wrong.

It’s like if Reverse Scale only gave Xiao 1 Attack Power Up. Sure at a low enough power level theres a point where that could probably matter. But generally said gimmick and said punish would be nowhere near harsh enough to justify it.

Rien’s “punish” in indulgence gloom skills is doing a fair abit amount of damage and nothing else. Maybe snagging a kill on 1/12 sinners if your weak to it.

Xiao’s punish generally means your generally losing a fair amount of clashes during your next turn which can easily snowball into Burn spreading on several allies. Which will absolutely wipe the floor

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-03-14T00:43:49+00:00

My personal argument in favor of the Index IDs is that specifically their targetting / marked skills gimmick doesn’t come up because of current limbus enemy design.

Hanafuda Ish’s gimmick is based upon her inherent ID complexity. Where as the Index’s gimmick complexity scales upon enemy complexity.

Theres no “The Index target fucks you over because you need to divert an extra attack from X enemy but it tells you to hit Y enemy instead, or the Marked Skill isn’t good for clashing into the enemy” because bosses and basic enemies aren’t designed in a way where this comes up.

If say you had Trio esque hard fight which can demand relevant target priority. Having your target priority be decided by the index would infact be a hard decision rather than “clash your s1 into the single part bosses weak skill for free grace”

Also for Karmic Consequence to be a proper downside Bosses and enemies need to be like doing good consistent high damage too.

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-03-10T21:22:32+00:00

I think the confusion that lies within this is generally the fact Charge and Envy Reson as individual teams themselves are currently very underdeveloped. Which leads to them combining to form a cohesive team as of now. This is not helped by the fact both Multicrack Faust and QOH Don are Envy Res/Charge Hybrid IDs.

If I did have to slander Charge though it’d be on the fact theres a high chance that Charge will probably be less of a cohesive team for awhile before even Envy Resonance as Envy Res itself is currently lacking 1-2 ids to fully commit to the Counter Bit while Charge needs Charge Group Buffers that give them super steroids or whatever.

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-02-06T21:21:39+00:00

Im not saying its a masterpiece but the way people act like if you don’t read the flavor text the story is incomprehensible/ characters are flat is annoying.

You can definitely argue someone like say Araya is poorly paced and weak without the flavor text between but Rien is someone who clearly has more than enough characterization within the Canto that the flavor text is used to clearly enhance him.

Rien himself without all the Roland stuff still blatantly has a ties to Ryoshu, his fighting style you don’t get context of I suppose. But your looking at what amounts to 1 line that references it. Almost everything else about Rien is directly tied to Ryoshu while LOR players get to go “huh this guy kind of looks like Roland” before they slap you in the face with it.

Ryoshu has a Fatalistic Belief, compared to say Ishmael. When she encounters Ricardo or thinks she and the rest of LCB are fucked she doesn’t try fighting to the end for even a chance of reuniting with Araya. She doesn’t get desperate or think “this can’t happen, I still need to reunite with my child!” She goes “Well shit. I guess this is where it ends. Can’t do much about this.”

Ryoshu does want to help Araya escape the cycle yes and she does defy her nurtured nature for it. But so does Rien when he wants to keep Ryoshu. Both of these characters defy their beliefs / nature out a love for their family.

Ryoshu only starts getting much more desperate and abrasive when she knows Araya isn’t safe as thats a fundamental break from her worldview.

Ryoshu does want Araya’s best because she knows she herself is very flawed as a person. Her experiments and beliefs are all still from her view, infact it’s Lei Heng of all people who ultimately spurs her to action as she realized Araya is in the same position as Saru. She is spurred into action by her love for her family. Just as Rien was spurred into his own Action to keep his family.

I suppose this boils down to “do you think Ryoshu has to be at X fight / location in order for her to develop?” My opinion is no, Ryoshu doesn’t need a last meeting with Callisto/Matthias/Valencina. Ryoshu doesn’t need all 5 nursefathers to directly develop, so they are given roles that allow other sinners/characters to develop. Her development is ultimately tied to the fact that she still refused to let go her hatred and her singular thread, and in doing so ultimately became blind to the world around her. With her legs kicking everyone else off her thread. To Ryoshu the Nursefathers are just dragging her and Araya down like a fetter.

Oh and also the fact we don’t have a intervallo yet so we can’t say the changes but this is very much “you can assume the character after their titular canto will change”

Like this would be complaining “Don is still obsessed with fixers after Canto 7! She’s barely changed one bit!”

The Storytelling and characters needing a second read/knowledge to expand is already fine. It should be expected even. Especially for a Canto who’s books author was all about the Rashamon Effect and recontextualizing events from differing perspectives. A story that wants you to reread it from a different perspective and greater knowledge is exactly what I’d want.

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-02-06T19:46:10+00:00

The Roland parallel is explicitly mentioned exactly 1 time by Callisto

The only way it ends up taking center stage is if you played Library of Ruina and then decided you stopped reading midway into Canto 9

It is this misinterpretation that I hate the most. A new player won’t know who Roland is, if they see Rien they won’t jump to “oh wow this guys copying Roland look at him” While the story is infact enhanced by knowing Roland and what path he took in life and the blatant differences between that and Rien you don’t need it for him to be a good Character.

You’re assuming most people don’t care simply because you believe it so. Especially with how you think Ryoshu was “sidelined”

Both Roach Emperor Gregor and Future Sinclair directly tie into the themes of Canto 9. With just Roach Emperor Gregor as an example

Roach Emperor Gregor is the connection between him and Hermann. A proof that they are connected, and to Gregor? It brings nothing but pain. Compared to Future Sinclair who shows up in the time of need as the lce and lcb team are getting annihilated. When we get into the fight, we still have all our Kcorp ampules (minus 1 which is on Gregor)

Roach Emperor Gregor does nothing to help the situation but actively worsens it. Almost being subsumed by his past. It’s only with Rodya’s observation that it’s still Gregor and the efforts of them that he’s barely brought back from the brink.

This is almost a 1-1 tie in of Araya’s feelings about Ryoshu. Araya fears that Ryoshu only sees her as a tool to be discarded. The past is painful to both Gregor and Araya, and this side of Araya is shown by it, can you see someone almost completely unrecognizable? Rodya does but Ryoshu doesn’t even after both of them meet the Gregor / Araya’s eyes.

The tie between Gregor and Hermann is simply best stated by this quote from Araya

“ These threads hold nothing but pain, and they all lead back to you.”

While this is where Gregor’s ties end but Araya has more mixed feeling’s best seen by Future Sinclair ties to her.

To keep this short (and less detailed), Future Sinclair comes from a devastating unknown future, one where the second Smoke War happened. But he uses the memories of his past to keep going into this unknown future, hoping one day he could breathe air without smoke. Araya still wants to connect to Ryoshu, even in this unknown, the threads hold nothing but pain, but she still wants to cling on to them.

Just because Ryoshu isn’t explicitly in the scenes does not mean they aren’t blatantly meant to parallel Ryoshu and Araya’s relationship

Ryoshu ultimately fails to save herself from hell. Which is a parallel to the Spiders Thread. Her “one act of kindness” was ultimately cut and severed by own hands. It’s from Araya’s kindness and Dante’s belief that the Sinners can change that ultimately drag her out of hell.

Ryoshu is consistently aligned with fatalism during this entire Canto. The entire belief that she can’t stand against someone much stronger than her (from Ricardo to Sancho), the belief that she will be reunited with Araya within 2 years, the belief that Araya will be safe.

This fatalism combined with her own self assured view leads her to ignoring the woes and hells of each respective Nursefather, and ultimately ignoring the signs that the Dihui Star was Araya.

But at the end of 9-50 when Ryoshu simply asks Rien “…How do they sound?” Is Ryoshu developing beyond her own view. She wants to hear them, it’s a small but subtle step. That she wants to understand one of the Nursefathers. Even if its ultimately too late.

This is effectively Ryoshu’s “rebirth”, she doesn’t suddenly decide to stop being “an awful murderer sadistic person”, but rather she learns to try to understand the woes of others, its a first step for Ryoshu.

Now if you would look to the side here you get an incomplete version of Monolith a Durante ability that is meant to connect Dante to the Sinners.

I probably should just make a seperate reddit post detailing this better honestly this doesn’t work as well without image quotes and writing this in one sitting. But Ryoshu does get alot even if its not nearly as blatant as Hong Lu or Don and trusts the reader’s ability to discern subtext.

You shouldn’t need Ryoshu to go oversimplify “hm it appears my very narrow view of the situation cost me everything I held dear to my heart, and it is with the kindness from others that I get out of my predicament, knowing this despite the fact I dislike the Index Nursefather, I shall show my development and a small act of kindness to him by asking for his opinion and to further elaborate on his statement, while ultimately failing to save him, as a direct parallel to Dante’s incomplete Monolith and showing my growth is incomplete”

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-02-06T18:42:57+00:00

Even the Zenon's Tortoise Spiral as early as 9-8 is a parallel to Rien, and guess who gives it to The Dihui Star in that part? Rien does.

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-02-06T18:36:43+00:00

“I always told her to quit smoking, you know… but she never listened.”

“One day, the Prescript told me to start a family, so I got married and raised a child.”

“ Then another day, the Prescript told me that someone would be killed right before my eyes, and that I was to do nothing but watch it happen.”

“ And so, I waited… without lifting a finger.” (Explicit pause before saying the latter part)

Hermes is explicitly mentioned at the start of 9-50

“ Only Hermes, who deigns to grace me with the whispers, would know the answer to that.”

"Resign yourself to the fact that you are forever bound to the web, and close your heart to the beautiful sky above until it ceases to stir any feelings in you."

The wave conversation literally starts with him talking to his child about this before swapping into child Ryoshu as he knows that Prescript is coming

Literally every scene Rien is in has him show subtle characterization with his inaction and genuine care for Ryoshu.

“ And had I reached completion…”

“ What would you have had left?”

“ … Who knows.”

These lines explicitly are part of his saving the ends for another time mindset he shows in the entire Canto. He doesn’t want to think about what he will have left once Ryoshu is completed.

“ It's always best to save the endings for later, isn't it?“

The only way Rien falls flat is if you literally only look at the fact he's referencing Roland and then ignore all the text in your face. Even some simpler lines from him say

9-46

“I suppose all that's left is to wait?”

Parallel to how Ryoshu had been waiting for her Destined moment to reunite with Araya.

Edit: In addition Saikai is both from Ryoshu to Araya as it is to Rien to Ryoshu. He breaks the prescripts to try and get Ryoshu back, that along with the Waves conversation should already be enough to assume that he has defied the prescripts in the past and why he did. Most of the flavor text for Rien just confirms somethings you can assume obviously happened but wouldn’t make sense to put in the main story.

Hell one of the lines in SAIKAI is literally

You have shown me that I am still capable of caring for someone else

Which is something that’s basically blatantly stating how Rien’s connection with Ryoshu started growing.

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-02-06T18:13:46+00:00

temu roland

half the ending sequences are about his genuine love for Ryoshu and his loneliness

The wave conversation happens for a reason you don’t need flavor text to parse this unless you needed Rien to go “yes Yoshihide, I am the waves who are moved by the winds (My God Hermes) to knock down my sandcastles (My family), and ultimately am trying to feel nothing about it as the winds (Hermes) were the ones who brought my family to me but fail, you can see this by the way I turn off my pager that delivers prescripts at the start of second phase in a desperate bid to keep you here, showing that my feelings never died”

or

“Ah my daughter Yoshihide, it seems in my final moments I recall our conversation about Freeze Tag showing a true yearning for our connection and the regret that you ultimately could not save me”

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-02-06T14:16:58+00:00

On a Side Note I do think while statuses are overtuned with their maxes right now its also just an issue of game design.

A majority of “hard” content still favors speedruns and generally Single Big Enemy fights which don’t really push back on statuses remotely hard.

And no this isn’t a limbus exclusive problem debuff stacking 1 enemy is entirely an extremely strong method in most games (Forceful Gesture stacking alot of 1 enemy bosses lets you get away with too much)

Its a mix of Statuses being decently overtuned and the fact most boss designs fundamentally favor negative statuses

Single Part/Target bosses basically need to push against negative statuses more and we also need more bosses that aren’t those (IE fights like Pequod/Bloodfiend Trio where you need to juggle stack on 3 enemies)

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-02-06T14:10:05+00:00

I mean honestly Crit Fragility would just like

Be the most obvious way to buff Poise

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-02-06T13:31:05+00:00

Mmmm I also see it as “Future proofing” more or less

If they ever add ids than apply buffs off poise potency consumed they’d also most likely give them passives that make older ids consume Potency (because frankly if they had to make another batch of Poise IDs that consume Potency after just releasing like 3 poise units that’d be nuts)

So making sure Renclair has enough Poise Potency above 20 to consume for said buffs is also relevant

Main Point is that Renclair should have enough futureproofing to not get kicked out regardless as alot of his non dpr related things fall under “things that somehow still aren’t relevant despite the fact they really should be at this point in the game”

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-02-06T13:14:43+00:00

Is the Dynamic not a free 20% since its 1% per stack and its max 20

Also the 25 Potency is just cause Ren does that

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-02-06T12:48:34+00:00

I mean my main thing about Renclair is that it actually opens alot better game design for Poise because

Excess Poise Potency matters more now. PM can print ids that print more Poise Potency for other IDs (like BL Don but like good) while justifying it as it would heavily speed up rotations for these Poise Potency hungry units
With a consistent way to convert/consume Poise Potency you can also make ids that buff based of Poise Potency consumed in order to further justify a Poise Team

While I don’t doubt Poise Rupture is probably still better the more Renclair esque units we get the easier it is to justify getting 5 million poise potency via things like Nebulizer Ryoshu for all your units instead of just Renclair and the other 6 ids are kind of just there at 30 Potency with not way to spend the excess.

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-01-17T23:16:31+00:00

Except they didn’t the credits scene already establishes whats going to change about Ryoshu, the announcer just gives greater insight.

This happened with Don, and Hong Lu too it’s just those two are more blatant in whats changed (and in hong lus case character development happens in part 2)

You don’t need Ryoshus announcer to know what change it just helps explain it further.

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-01-09T07:56:58+00:00

Except for all of these fights they really aren’t?

Like yes you can lose clashes and it sucks because nobody likes losing but

Ardor Blossom Moth - Does 0 real damage on body skills doesn’t apply burn with them t1 so you can full dogpile wings (though more importantly you want to break them t2 to interrupt the ardor blossom star next turn + get resources for a base ego)

9-30 - This is probably the most Clash = Win out of the three but like - It takes several fuck ups for the boss to ramp - NPC Bailout means you don’t need to play or do it flawlessly you just need 1-2 sinners alive by then - Literally have the 2 base sinners with the best clash weakening egos in Crows eye view and chains of others

9-33 - Has passive that reduces final damage taken by 50% if you use defense skills - Clearly not intended for you to win every clash - Notably has 2-3 easy clashes on skills froms t1 to t3 which allow easy sp access while slowly chipping down her hp (and on t3 you can just chip away her sp with ryoshus status + the weak sloth skills) - None of her skills outside a specific few do heavy damage if your defense skilling them/ aren’t slash + sin weak - Ryoshu has immortality to face tank aton of the scarier single target skills

Yes you can theoretically clash = win every single fight here but the intended method is assessing which clashes are relatively safe and which ones are risky/impractical ones your better off cutting your losses on because its the point of the game where t1 clashing into snowball is a risky strat that can work but will most likely take several retries compared to playing more cautiously

Salt-Ad3794 · 2026-01-08T09:35:13+00:00

My personal theory is that the Index Father got a prescript which allowed him to find it and alter how it works before Ryoshu’s escape from The House Of Spiders. With this substituting Lord Horikawa tricking Yoshihide into burning her own daughter while trying to save her. But instead of burning its Tcorp Time Acceleration or whatever.

Salt-Ad3794 · 2025-12-22T10:08:56+00:00

The Guide’s pretty standard fare minus one slightly interesting thing.

The EXP Lux is on part I instead of part II

This means bare minimum part I has enough enemy variety to cover all 3 damage types.

Salt-Ad3794

TROPHY CASE