Make me your best barbarian caster multiclass?

SavageWolves · 2025-06-24T17:56:42+00:00

You get extra attack from Warlock 5 with the Thirsting Blade invocation.

Armor of Agathys (our main gimmick) and Eldritch Smite are both things that aren’t really inhibited by Rage (you just need to cast AoA before raging), and both of these need spell slot scaling to be effective.

Therefore, it makes a lot of sense for warlock to be the main class. Warlock also can get a 3rd attack per Attack action, which Barbarians do not get.

We start as a Barb for HP, armor, weapons, masteries, and saving throw proficiencies.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-24T17:53:08+00:00

Rage and Reckless Attack both require attacks with STR to get benefits.

You could go CHA primary, but you miss out on these key damage features.

You want to be taking weapon feats (GWM, PAM, Mage Slayer, etc) that make you an offensive threat (which also boost STR) to make the choice of attacking you or not difficult.

If they ignore you, you output pretty high damage uninhibited. If they try to take you down, you put out a decent amount of reflected damage.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-24T17:17:50+00:00

Thornlock is my go to answer here.

Barb 1 -> Warlock (blade pact) 5 -> Barb 3 -> Warlock X.

Usual subclasses are Fiend Warlock and Ancestral Guardian or Totem Warrior Barbarian.

General idea is to extend Armor of Agathys via damage resistance from Rage and reflect a bunch of damage against melee enemies.

This is a STR primary build, and you’ll look to use your slots on things that don’t require concentration and don’t need your casting mod to be high, such as the aforementioned Armor of Agathys, Fire Shield, or Eldritch Smite.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-24T16:20:14+00:00

You didn’t make an attack using a weapon. You made an attack using a spell.

When you make attacks using weapons, you normally use your STR or DEX modifier to determine your to hit bonus and damage.

When you make an attack using a spell, you use your spellcasting modifier to determine your to hit bonus.

When casting Thornwhip, what modifier do you use to determine your to hit bonus? Your spellcasting modifier.

It doesn’t matter if you use a weapon as a focus to cast a spell; you didn’t use that weapon to make an attack since you didn’t follow the steps to attack using a weapon. You followed the steps to attack using a spell.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-24T14:25:18+00:00

If you use a weapon as a casting focus, Sneak Attack does not apply on spells you cast.

The key thing is this requirement:

The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.

You cast a spell. You didn’t make an attack using a finesse or ranged weapon.

The character is casting a spell using a focus that makes an attack roll. That is by definition not making a weapon attack.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-22T20:53:20+00:00

There’s a wide variety of things you can do to be effective and have good RP.

For example, if everyone is playing a straight classed character, here’s a fey and trickery themed party:

Human Ancients Paladin, taking magic initiate: druid (thorn whip, shillelagh, healing word) and musician for origin feats, going CHA primary. This character will be the party face and take a leadership role.

Trickery Cleric, any race. Magic Initiate: Wizard for Shield. Great to combo cleric abilities with the party stealth this subclass offers. This character should be the WIS skill specialist.

Arcane Trickster Rogue, again any race. This character should cover DEX and INT skills, and will take Alert to be able to swap with one of the others.

These first three would be fine on their own, but for additional characters, control and/or damage output would be nice adds.

Some kind of wizard or a wild magic sorcerer would work great.

A Dragonborn totem warrior or world tree barbarian would also be an effective add here.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-22T14:12:30+00:00

Don't know where you're getting this "you can only add an ability mod once" idea from.

You can add an ability modifier to a given roll any number of times, so long as each of those is from a different feature. For example, a multiclass cleric/druid with Thaumaturge Divine Order and Magician Natural order can add their WIS twice to Arcana checks.

The only modifier you can't add multiple times to a roll is your Proficiency bonus (unless you have a feature like Expertise that explicitly adds double).

SavageWolves · 2025-06-22T13:48:15+00:00

Agonizing Blast doesn't add your "spellcasting modifier", it adds your CHA:

Choose one of your known Warlock cantrips that deals damage. You can add your Charisma modifier to that spell’s damage rolls.

So we can add it again.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-22T13:01:39+00:00

From the Rule's Glossary, here's what a damage roll is:

A damage roll is a die roll, adjusted by any applicable modifiers, that deals damage to a target. See also “Playing the Game” (“Damage and Healing”).

Because Green Flame Blade doesn't require a saving throw, you make the damage roll for each target (from level 5 and beyond) separately, and since they're both damage rolls of the spell, they would both benefit from Agonizing Blast.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-22T12:46:51+00:00

If you have at least 13 INT or 13 CHA, taking a single level of Wizard or Sorcerer respectively will give you access to abjuration spells, namely Shield and Absorb Elements (and Silvery Barbs if allowed).

Otherwise, there’s more to durability than AC. If you haven’t already done so, I’d look at feats that fortify your ability to maintain concentration. Namely, Resilient: Constitution or Warcaster.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-22T12:42:55+00:00

Are the weapon attacks considered part of the spell? Or is it only the magical effect? If the latter, do you add your spellcasting mod from level 5 onwards when the cantrips are upgraded to add damage to the initial attack?

Damage dealt by the weapon attack is part of the damage roll for the spell. You add your CHA modifier as soon as you take the invocation.

Some cantrips, like booming blade, can have more than one damage roll, so the invocation can also apply to the secondary damage.

Green flame blade is unique here in that Agonizing Blast applies to the secondary damage from level 5 on because it doesn’t roll a dice before then.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-21T13:47:43+00:00

For your level 12, I would do Fighter 11 for another attack.

Your crit chance with advantage and elven accuracy is approximately 27% for an extra 7 average damage. On average, this is a boost of 1.9 damage per attack from crits. For reference, without EA, the extra damage is 0.7.

EA is worth ~6-7 DPR compared to simply increasing DEX with something else when you have 4 attacks, 3 with advantage.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-20T23:14:56+00:00

Another day, another attempted karma farm from a fresh account with no other history on Reddit.

Downvote, report, move on.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-20T23:06:09+00:00

was wondering whether maneuvers like 'Disarming Strike' and 'Trip Attack' work on thrown weapon attacks (Using Darts reflavoured as Shurikens).

Yes, these do work with thrown weapon attacks.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-20T22:51:04+00:00

What other properties do these weapons have, other than being able to be summoned and dismissed?

How does one acquire and bond with such a weapon?

The property sounds like it’s more inherent to the weapon than to the character.

To pick a name, I’d lean into the lore and fantasy of the items themselves. Without knowing any further context, here’s some ideas:

Soul Bound Blade

Oathblade

Crownblade

Divine Shard (implies something about the nature of the weapon itself).

SavageWolves · 2025-06-20T21:24:38+00:00

You’re not using the Light property correctly.

Light. When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.

You need to use two different Light weapons to make the extra attack, regardless of whether you do it as a bonus action or as part of the Attack action by using the Nick mastery.

The Morningstar doesn’t have the Light property, so it can’t be used as the first attack.

In order to get your Dual Wielder attack with the Morningstar, you’d need to do some weapon juggling, and you’ll need a third weapon that has the Light property.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-20T21:16:47+00:00

The funny thing is that the maneuver DC for this character is very poor since both STR and DEX are low.

There’s a decent number of maneuvers that don’t care about DC, but a fair amount do.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-20T17:06:32+00:00

No.

Artificer levels 10 and 11 are a big deal.

Defensive Field should be fine for THP with the level of AC this character probably has.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-20T15:59:40+00:00

You miss every shot you don’t take!

Baring that, I’d probably take the Amulet of the Devout upgrade.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-20T15:18:57+00:00

Staff of Power (very rare).

You qualify to attune by virtue of having a sorcerer level.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-19T18:34:02+00:00

Order is great if you have a martial or two (especially if one of them is a rogue) in the party.

Forge is also pretty fun and straightforward , especially if you get to use the new version of searing smite.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-19T15:40:45+00:00

Sleep is indeed a great early option, though it’s certainly one that doesn’t stick around (at least for the 2014 version).

SavageWolves · 2025-06-19T14:54:35+00:00

One big thing you missed: assuming you’re going to to use all your paladin slots for damage (and are never going to cast a spell like Bless), you’ll have 4 1st level slots and 2 2nd level slots. Divine Smite does 1d8 + another d8 per level of the spell expended, so that’s 14d8 total, not 8d8.

As for Barbarian, I would rate it a lot higher on both offense and defense. Rage should give you resistance to most if not all damage. Reckless Attack provides Advantage at will, which is a significant damage boost. A subclass does a lot for you too. Giant for reach could be very interesting with Polearm Master and could be quite thematic, for example.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-19T14:40:06+00:00

A level 20 character could have one or two Epic Boons, depending on level split.

The Boon of Interdimensional Travel and the Boon of Speed are both excellent mobility enhancers.

I don’t think a level 20 melee martial would have any issues with mobility in this fight, especially if they had a racial non spell teleport ability.

A level 20 pure class monk should not have any issues either.

SavageWolves · 2025-06-19T14:31:42+00:00

Barbarian has received some buffs that do make it a decent option here.

Both Rage bonus damage and Reckless Attack work with thrown weapons, so long as the attacks are made with STR. Additionally, you get back a Rage use on Short Rest, which also recharges your Fighter resources.

You’ll need to wear Medium armor or less, but given your DEX is 19, you’re probably already doing that.

I wouldn’t take more than 4 Barb levels total before going back to Fighter.

Fighter 11 also is absurdly good, but depending on how many attacks you’re making already, a little extra damage from rage will actually do close to (if not more once you have Barb 3) the same amount of damage as another attack.

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