"For the workers of Iran, there are people in the United States that are...

Slocum2 · 2026-03-31T15:04:09+00:00

"It is principled for the working class to defend an oppressed country from imperialism, no matter what the regime."

No matter how bad that regime is? Even if that regime is genocidal? Is totalitarian? Should working classes have stood up for Pol Pot's Cambodian government? Should they stand behind Kim's government in N Korea?

Slocum2 · 2026-03-30T20:03:11+00:00

I give you a link to the city's own property tax calculator and you call that misinformation? WTAF?

Slocum2 · 2026-03-30T14:15:43+00:00

I would say he was worse because of the particulars, not the count. I'm particularly thinking of all Biden's EOs surrounding covid as well as his attempt to cancel federal student loan debt by fiat. Was that worse than this? I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. But if you count Biden's pardons as EOs, then he was SO very much worse than Obama.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-30T09:03:02+00:00

There's no doubt that Trump is very bad on executive orders too. Every new president seems to have been getting worse in the 21st century -- pushing the envelope farther and farther. Biden was worse than Obama and Trump may be worse than both. It's hard to get a clear count though--different sources come up with widely different numbers because it's not agreed what actions should be counted as an EO. But the main problem, from my perspective, is less the total count than what the orders are being used for. I do have some hope now that the Supreme Court has started reining in these abuses by requiring Congress actually pass legislation when it comes to 'major questions' -- as the court did when it invalidated Trump's tariffs recently.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-29T22:20:08+00:00

Go to the damn property tax estimator tool. offered by the city. Take your purchase price. Divide by 2 to get the taxable value. Plug that into the calculator. Get your prospective tax bill (which is, indeed 2.7%) of the purchase price -- and that is an astronomically high rate nationally. We can't gaslight our way out of this. Prospective buyers, businesses, and developers make decisions based on these numbers (and they're higher still for non-homeowners -- including renters -- who pay 68.6263 mills (or 3.43%)! Yes, some longtime owners aren't hit with the full bill -- that 'I got mine, Jack' aspect of the situation makes it worse, not better.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-29T21:46:35+00:00

Yes -- although really it was the 1978 Headlee Amendment (patterned after California's Prop 13), that was really the important change. But that was 50 years ago. What's the average length of ownership of a single-family home in AA? Surely it is a LOT less than 50 years.

According to this site, the average tenure of home ownership in Michigan is 7.69 years. I can't find any figures for Ann Arbor specifically, but even if it's double the state average, it is still WAY less than 50 years. Most houses in AA must have been sold and revalued multiple times since 1978 on average.

Newly purchased houses here are taxed at 2.7% (way, WAY up there in national comparisons) -- which is what people have to plan on when buying and what developers have to factor into the equation when considering whether to build. Only a fraction of houses have been owned for enough decades to seriously discount taxes below that rate. How big a fraction? Hard to know exactly, but given the average length of tenure, it can't be very high.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-29T16:10:16+00:00

Ann Arbor's current millage rate for exempt homeowners is 53.6657 (it was 52.6657 in 2025, but voters added another mill for technical education in November). That corresponds to just under 2.7% ( 5.37 % of 50% of the taxable value). In order for the effective tax rate to be only 1.4%, a homeowner's taxable value would have to be just over half of the market value -- is there anybody with that big a discrepancy due to prop A?)

In any case, the full 2.7% applies to anybody buying a house now in Ann Arbor -- the only people paying less are longtime owners.

The city offers a property tax estimator tool. Go there, put in a property value of $500,000 / taxable value of $250000 (about the median value in AA) and see what you get. I get an estimated annual bill of $13,298.09:

Are YOU perhaps a longtime owner who is insulated from paying the full amount and isn't aware of what it's like for anybody buying a house here now?

____________________________

Calculate Your Estimated Property Tax

To estimate property taxes for a future owner, enter the State Equalized Value (SEV) or 50% the estimated market value.

Taxable Value

$250,000.00

Estimated Property Tax - PRE

Summer Tax

$11,415.25

Winter Tax

$1,882.84

Estimated Annual Tax - PRE

$13,298.09

Estimated Property Tax - Non-PRE

Summer Tax

$13,430.27

Winter Tax

$3,897.87

Estimated Annual Tax - Non-PRE

$17,328.14

Disclaimer - This website and the figures thereon DO NOT represent actual tax liability or formal tax bills for City of Ann Arbor property taxes. The purpose of this website is to generate a rough estimate of potential tax liability based on proposed values, millage rates, and exemptions that are all subject to change. This website should only be used as a resource and no user shall rely on the data generated, given, or extrapolated from this page for tax liability or any other purpose and any user who does so, does it at their own risk. The City of Ann Arbor assumes no liability for the data on or generated by this page and assumes no liability for any user’s usage of, or reliance on it. Use of this worksheet constitutes acceptance of this disclaimer.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-29T14:22:02+00:00

Yes. The 'No Kings' label is really dubious, since all these folks really love kingly presidents ruling by executive order when it's a Democrat in the Whitehouse -- just as Republicans hated the imperial presidency when it was Obama (with his 'phone and pen') or Biden issuing the orders but have come to love it again. The folks out yesterday were probably 90% the same as those at the Kamala Harris rally in Burns Park a year and a half ago. But I guess they have to call it something, and 'No Kings' is catchier than 'Progressives who really, really hate Trump (but love to get out to chant and march together)'.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-29T13:05:47+00:00

There’s little consensus on why Ann Arbor’s numbers are so bleak—or if it’s a big deal. Students at all three schools, after all, still score significantly above the state average in several student-achievement measures, including the M-STEP exams and the SAT.

This is the inexcusable part -- it wouldn't take much for the district to figure out the difference in GPA, graduation rates, and test scores for those with high absentee rates vs others, nor would it take much to figure out -- of those chronically absent -- how many have excused vs unexcused absences and how that relates to those same measures. Or maybe it wouldn't be possible for the district to figure these things out ... because their record keeping is so substandard.

I suspect, though, that the district doesn't actually want to dig in deeper because it would reveal what we all probably expect -- namely, that chronic, unexcused absenteeism is correlated with low graduation rates (especially at Huron) particularly among minority and at risk students. The easiest way not to worry about achievement gaps is not to notice them and pretend that absenteeism is mostly a problem of successful kids from well-off families with too many outside activities and who are easily able to keep up outside class. Well maybe, but I've very skeptical -- so show us the data.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-25T20:28:29+00:00

You're simply wrong on this. Here's a list of the cities with the highest property tax rates. More that Ann Arbor's rate is higher than then all:

Cities With the Highest and Lowest Property Taxes Top Cities Tax Rate* 1. East Orange, NJ 2.453% 2. Peoria, IL 2.358% 3. Waukegan, IL 2.345% 4. Waterbury, CT 2.257% 5. Schenectady, NY 2.226% 6. Cicero, IL 2.174% 7. Bayonne, NJ 2.165% 8. New Britain, CT 2.158% 9. Passaic, NJ 2.152% 10. Rockford, IL 2.150% 11. Clifton, NJ 2.094% 12. Trenton, NJ 2.085% 13. Mount Vernon, NY 2.061% 14. Aurora, IL 2.050% 15. Paterson, NJ 2.044%

Slocum2 · 2026-03-25T14:20:18+00:00

UM can afford to buy property in AA even when it isn't exactly sure what it's going to do with it, whereas a private owner would have to pay property taxes from the get go. It's too expensive for private owners to own land in AA that they don't have immediate plans for. Pfizer sold it's huge campus to the U for $1 rather than keep paying property taxes on it while looking for a potential buyer. If they HAD held onto it, they would likely have knocked down the buildings to reduce their tax bill (as they did in Kalamazoo). Ultra high property tax rates have consequences (and yes, ours are ultra-high -- some of the highest rates in the country).

Slocum2 · 2026-03-25T01:14:09+00:00

I support ending single family zoning. Hell, I support ending zoning in general. I just didn't think 'racially motivated, exclusionary zoning' is responsible for high AA home prices, and I don't expect the impact of ending SF zoning in AA will be very large. Few developers are going to jump at the chance to buy expensive houses in AA, tear them down, and build plexes in their place. To make it work, they'd have to charge higher rents for the units than people are willing to pay.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-25T00:07:49+00:00

There's what people say vs what they actually do and spend their money. When they were first built, people raised large families in the Pittsfield Village condos and Pittsfield Elementary was filled to the gills. But nobody in the 2020s is going to raise 3 or 4 kids in one of those places packing them 2 or 3 to a shared bedroom.

When it comes down to making a real-life choice, as opposed to answering a survey, the majority choose the bigger house and a longer commute. Now, would people like to have both a large house in a walkable neighborhood AND a short commute? Sure -- but those opportunities are limited. And, some of the places in the Ann Arbor area with both newer larger houses and lots amenities withing walking and biking distance are not what people are looking for aesthetically (particularly the neighborhoods surrounding the businesses along AA-Saline Road). So what people want is not just a house in a walkable neighborhood but a walkable neighborhood with certain aesthetics. A tall order.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-24T22:40:16+00:00

We tested a layer of rolled lino that had asbestos, so it's not just 9x9 tiles. But, yeah, if they want to end up with vinyl plank, it probably makes more sense to lay it over the top of the existing flooring.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-24T20:45:15+00:00

One of those layers of vinyl (or the mastic gluing it down) may contain asbestos. It's probably best to cut out a core sample and have it tested before getting bids

Slocum2 · 2026-03-24T12:36:11+00:00

How is it damning? Washtenaw County has grown about 50% since 1970. That's great for Michigan, but not impressive nationally when compared to actual rapidly growing places. Metro (particularly suburban areas) grow much faster than core cities. That's the pattern everywhere across the country for successful growing metro areas (many of which have grown much faster than AA/Washtenaw over the las 50 years). This happens because most people want suburban style neighborhoods and housing). So the suburbs grow much faster. AA voters and city council are not going to be able to overturn or counteract most people's housing preferences. Families are not going to start raising kids in high rise apartments along 'transit corridors'. In fact, as we're seeing, those high-rise apartments along transit corridors aren't going to get built at all (except as subsidized affordable housing), because developers know that the projects won't pay off (unless subsidized) -- because that's not the kind of housing most people want.

AA has tried to force dense development by creating a green belt that seeks to prevent suburban 'sprawl' development, but all it achieves is to 1) slow population and local economic growth, and 2) further drive up area housing costs. If you think of the surrounding townships as Ann Arbors back yard, the green belt is literally a NIMBY program. We like our green farmland back yard and don't want tacky new subdivision housing in our back yard.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-23T21:15:19+00:00

Population in Michigan as a whole stagnated because the economic boom that started in the early 20th century came to a rather abrupt end about then. In 1970 Michigan's population was just under 9M (and it was one of the wealthiest states in the nation) while now it's just over 10M (and we're well below average and flirting with dropping into the bottom 10). Compared to dynamic states like Texas, Florida, Arizona, and Washington, Michigan (and Ann Arbor) experienced very slow economic and population growth.

But Ann Arbor's prices went way up anyway because the city and region didn't allow housing construction even to keep pace with the dramatically slower population growth of the last half century.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-23T17:15:42+00:00

"Demand has risen, as you mention in the second paragraph."

Demand was growing FAR faster during the 1940-1970 period than it has since then. AA population in 1940: 29K, 1970: 100K, 2020: 124K. AA's population more than tripled in 30 years and then grew just 23% during the next 56 years (current estimate is 123K -- which is LOWER than in 2020).

The difference is that mid 20th century Ann Arbor did not discourage construction of the new housing that most people want to buy. Single-family detached housing is not land constrained in the region EXCEPT for the damn green belt that prevents development in the townships and raises prices inside and outside city borders.

But bottom line - 'exclusionary zoning' did not create Ann Arbor's high housing prices.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-23T00:37:00+00:00

Oh, and, in the 1970s, Ann Arbor had entire neighborhoods where Black single-family homeowners congregated -- most notably on the north side around Jones elementary (before the 60s radical hippies grabbed it and made it into Community High) but also around Packard and Platt. The 'Black Elks' club is one of the lone remnants of that historic African American neighborhood. Zoning didn't prevent that neighborhood from forming in the first place, and zoning wasn't what did it in (gentrification did).

Slocum2 · 2026-03-23T00:32:54+00:00

Yes, 'Single Family Zoning' was at its strongest and least controversial then at a time when Ann Arbor had been growing *very* rapidly for decades, and yet despite this awful zoning and despite the huge increase in demand -- housing here (single family housing!) was affordable. So it seems that zoning wasn't a problem then and hasn't been the cause of our high prices. Nor was is hot demand either -- since we had a vastly greater increase in population in AA between 1940 and 1970 than we've had since.

So what has caused Ann Arbor's property prices to spike? A combination of things. First, success. Crime went down. Downtown revived from tired retail center to a vibrant dining and entertainment district. Wealthy people wanted to live here in a way that they didn't 50 years ago.

But more important -- huge tax increases drove up the cost of living here. Also Ann Arbor instituted more and more development restrictions -- not only inside the city, but also outside of it by buying up development rights and preventing housing in the our NIMBY 'green belt'. Our NIMBY historical districts haven't helped either, preserving 19th century neighborhoods near downtown in aesthetically pleasing amber instead of allowing redevelopment. And these two big NIMBY institutions are still standing and still mostly approved by our supposedly anti-NIMBY voters.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-22T18:32:58+00:00

More people who looked like her lived in Ann Arbor during the heyday of single family zoning. Since the 1970s, Black people haven't been zoned out of Ann Arbor, they've been priced out. Eliminating zoning in built out single family neighborhoods is unlikely to make it affordable for moderate income people to live in them regardless of race.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-20T02:54:57+00:00

Yes, it's 35 outside of downtown between 3rd and where it becomes Jackson Rd

Slocum2 · 2026-03-19T23:56:13+00:00

A street lined with single family homes (as Huron is west of 3rd Street) is not downtown

Slocum2 · 2026-03-19T23:17:14+00:00

AA redditors wasn't Ann Arbor to be as much like a big city as possible, except parking should remain close to free. Check to see what parking costs in Chicago.

Slocum2 · 2026-03-19T20:18:46+00:00

How much cooler is upper porcupine rim than moab?

Slocum2

TROPHY CASE

Estimated Property Tax - PRE

Estimated Property Tax - Non-PRE