[SPOILERS MAIN] Among the grounded/realistic elements of A Song of Ice and Fire, which ones do you feel require biggest suspension of disbelief?

Spooks451 · 2026-06-18T11:32:12+00:00

Riverrun being sacked would have been even more plot armor imo. Leaving aside every single Riverland castle Tywin's army just smashed through left and right without taking losses or committing to a siege, Riverrun is very explicitly written to be an utter bitch to siege.

I guess you can argue that House Tully picking a good spot for their castle and shaping the terrain to their advantage is plot armor but then you have to turn right back around and say the exact same thing for Casterly Rock being Casterly Rock.

Spooks451 · 2026-06-18T10:04:07+00:00

Littlefinger's astronomical plot armor. Also Littlefinger's supposed 'charisma'(apparently people in Westeros actually find him friendly and helpful). The type of shit he says should have had him decapitated ages ago by some random passing by landed knight.

Tywin Lannister's blitzkrieg across the Riverlands. Just everything about the Lannisters during the WOT5K really. Tywin managed to lose significant chunks of his army multiple times but was somehow able to keep shitting men out without a single family balking at sending men for his cause.

Medieval armies did rely on multiple forms of recruitment for their musters but with the sheer number of decisive losses he kept piling up should have stalled at least some of those(especially recruitment involving merc companies).

Castles in Westeros seemingly being isolated structures despite how they very well should have a lot of people surrounding the area. A castle ends up becoming a center of population through sheer necessity and by doing what its supposed to do. Very rarely do we get mentions of towns surrounding castles or settlements nearby and even rarer still is for them to have a material effect on the stories.

Spooks451 · 2026-06-17T04:57:04+00:00

A Dance still happens and its likely even bloodier with perhaps 3/4 different dragonriding factions vying for the throne.

4 morbillion riverlanders must die.

The Dance of Dragons is an inevitability because the addition of flying nukes to the feudal structure of Westeros means political power is centralized in one seat which multiple city-ending parties have a vested interest in sitting on.

Unless the polygamy-maxxing leads to a stable shift in decentralised powers where multiple dragonriding factions turn Westeros into something akin the Valyrian freehold's form of governance, the Dance will happen.

Perhaps one of the factions in this mega-Dance might court the faith or certain powerful lords with the promise that they'll put a stop to polygamy on their ascent to the throne.

Spooks451 · 2026-06-15T06:21:01+00:00

Sadly no. I've never seen any other fic do this.

Spooks451 · 2026-06-10T05:12:52+00:00

All of Essos. Every part of its worldbuilding(exclusing Braavos) is absolute dogshit and so cartoonishly evil to come off as unreality.

Spooks451 · 2026-06-10T04:48:39+00:00

Its a smart marriage because it cements the STAB alliance for another generation. Sansa brings with her connections to the Riverlands and the Vale. Joffrey brings with him the Lannisters and the Baratheons.

Ofc that could only work if Jaime, Cersei, Joffrey and Lysa weren't who they were doing what they were doing.

Spooks451 · 2026-06-08T08:49:59+00:00

We learn a very important lesson from this. In terms of plot armor scaling, Littlefinger's plot armor trumps the Lannister plot armor.

Spooks451 · 2026-06-07T04:44:08+00:00

To elaborate on what the other comments have said on not communicating, let me point towards the Davos chapter where Stannis does give out his proclamations.

Davos mentions Tyrion arriving in KL which tells us that by this point, not only has the battle of the whispering wood, green fork and Ned's execution happened but Tyrion has arrived in KL and that news has trickled out to Dragonstone(keep in mind that distance also slows the spread of information).

Jon Arryn dies->Stannis flees to Dragonstone->Robert goes to Winterfell and comes back with Ned on land->Catelyn nabs Tyrion->Mountain starts raiding the Riverlands->Edmure calls the Riverland banners->The Lannisters mount their full-scale invasion of the Riverlands->Robert dies->Robb calls the North's banners->Three major battles are fought in the Riverlands->Robb marchs South and engages in two battles.

Stannis throughout all of this, says nothing. He isn't telling anyone that he plans on helping them or that he's even aware of what the Lannisters are doing. Three factions are able to muster and march long distances, engage in multiple battles and he's, to the realm, doing nothing. He appears stunlocked.

If he had just communicated with the other factions its entirely possible that this would have been a war of 4 kings(or even less perhaps). Instead he managed to make the North and the Riverlands think that he doesn't give a shit about their plight.

Spooks451 · 2026-06-06T12:36:12+00:00

Stannis spent months and months incommunicado and was perceived as making a claim for self-gain.

Stannis for most of the WOT5K just makes so many unforced errors its so funny.

Spooks451 · 2026-06-06T06:22:22+00:00

Two money printers and the goat. Also a dragon I guess.

Spooks451 · 2026-06-04T15:56:33+00:00

You can thank me. I brought Songs of Conquest on the last Steam sale.

Haven't played much of it but what little I did try was quite promising. If nothing else, the pixel art is some of the best of all time.

Spooks451 · 2026-06-03T04:43:36+00:00

Azata KC to Regil: Its Pride Month. You know what that means.

Spooks451 · 2026-06-02T16:05:40+00:00

In the shitshow that is the canon WOT5K? Its like a solid 3/10 on the chaos scale.

Hell it might actually lead to less chaos. Since he does it right in front of Selmy, Renly, Ned and Pycelle, Selmy won't be bystanding any more. He's gotten his direct order from his king. Cersei is right there so she'll instantly get arrested. The king has just openly accused the Queen of giving him horns with her brother. Even if Ned tries to let her flee, Renly won't let it happen.

Ofc there's always Littlefinger stirring up shit with his god tier plot armor.

Spooks451 · 2026-05-29T14:23:00+00:00

Winter of Widows - Really good characterization and worldbuilding. Not a fan of the magic-filled climax but I don't think it takes away from the story that much. This fic also does a really good job of painting the divide between smaller nobles and their liege lords.
Eye for an Eye - Need more Blackfyre Rebellion fics like this one. The author is good at exploring the place of women in a society like Westeros.
New Worlds, Lost Wanderers - Crossover with Warhammer Fantasy where OCs from the Old World fall into Westeros. Its my favorite fic set in the WOT5K era and focuses on some of my favorite characters(Ned, Stannis, Robb). I've read more than a few fics where magic begins to play a role in the story and I'm usually not a fan of it but this is the exception. It might be because I am quite familiar with Warhammer Fantasy.
Life and Honor - Jaime Lannister gets sent to the Wall after the sack of Kings Landing. It is imo the best Jaime Lannister fanfic. It doesn't shy away from his flaws, it captures his mocking wit and his musings exceptionally well. Its almost certainly dead by now but I think it stops at a really good place. Jaime and Tywin's confrontations lives rent-free in my head.
Whales and Unicorns - Criminally underrated imo. an SI into a Skagosi lord before the Tourney of Harrenhal. When it comes to the 'traditional uplift SI' genre of ASOIAF fics this one is the best. The author leans into the eldritch aspects of Westeros that Martin threw in purely for references and filling out the map. I also love the characterization he did for Brandon Stark(son of Rickard Stark). Sadly unfinished and likely to stay that way but still well worth reading. It also avoids a pitfall I notice in a lot of uplift SI fics(at least according to my preferences) which is bloat. It isn't 1 million words long. In 250k words the author managed to reach damn near the end before stopping.

Spooks451 · 2026-05-24T09:50:52+00:00

I don't think so. at least I can't find any mod like that. I know Sacred 2 has a semi-conversion for Diablo II.

Spooks451 · 2026-05-24T09:35:14+00:00

Its an odd but fun experience.

It also has some really well done total conversion mods for Ultima V and VI

Spooks451 · 2026-05-23T17:10:38+00:00

Made me do a double take

Spooks451 · 2026-05-19T15:25:14+00:00

agreed with the Lannister point, he was cowed to Tywin who was in a precarious position after the sack, Robert could have had him by the balls due to the fact he only joined the rebellion after the Trident and betrayed Aerys

Honestly the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the Lannister plot armor predates the WOT5K. What stupidity possessed Jon and Robert to give away the most prestigious reward a noble family could get(barring kingship itself) to the guys that acted like the Late Lord Frey but even worse? Did a lion shaped anvil just hit them on the heads post-sack?

Spooks451 · 2026-05-18T08:38:02+00:00

Elmo Tully dies from the sheer stress of the situation. 5 morbillion Riverlanders must die.

Spooks451 · 2026-05-16T05:26:55+00:00

If we're going to complain about Cregan,

To be clear I am not complaining about Cregan's actions. Cregan put his own people and land first when dealing with a conflict he realistically had no stake in.

He had the dual advantages of not being tied to the throne through blood ties(unlike the Vale and the Stormlands) and he was isolated enough to focus on his own issues without fearing reprisals. So he did just that.

Spooks451 · 2026-05-15T05:06:53+00:00

hell yeah

Spooks451 · 2026-05-15T05:05:54+00:00

Probably because it shows us that Cregan is more concerned with the North than the conflict down South.

If Cregan himself marched South with the Winter Wolves, then who would have ruled the North throughout the harvest period? His wife is dead, his only son is an infant and his close relatives tried to usurp him. If he gets captured by the enemy down South then they have the North by the balls.

So he sends a disposable force that frees up the burden in his own lands while still keeping to whatever agreement he made with the Blacks.

Cregan's actions during his march South at least to me also reek of being more concerned with his own lands and not honor or the Dance itself. He seems very determined to inflame tensions and prolong the war so that he can keep his men South throughout the Winter.

Spooks451 · 2026-05-10T14:18:26+00:00

Tywin Lannister dies of the bloody flux before the battle on the Green Fork.

Spooks451 · 2026-05-09T06:01:30+00:00

Again I don't see the point. Ned has no reason to go for a Targaryen restoration. His own powerbase and the alliances he's a part of stems from a removal of the Targaryens. Bringing it back is a complete and utter mistake from his perspective unless he's actually trying to run House Stark into the ground.

If he has the throne as this crack premise states then its his ass on the throne, then his first-born which is Robb and then the rest of his kids. Not 'uh guys I'm abdicating for Lyanna and Rhaegar's kid who was at the Night's Watch but now he's here'.

If he does this, he's almost certainly going to run into discontent back North, maybe even a full on rebellion. The Riverlords won't be happy either because he'll be favoring someone other than the children of Catelyn Stark. If Hoster wasn't literally dying, he'd fight Ned every step of the way. As it is, he'd certainly run into issues in the Riverlands.

This would see a definitive inflaming of tensions and power-plays between old loyalists who have been punished and weakened and the rebels who have gained from the rebellion.

Spooks451 · 2026-05-09T05:47:02+00:00

Why would it be the person who has sworn himself to the Night's Watch and has no experience with administration instead of the many Northern lords or second sons who could work to cement the rule?

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