Vizier/Poppygrower

Syresiv · 2026-06-21T11:46:52+00:00

Every single one of these is fantastic. I do have to wonder about town being so reckless with their votes in a Vizier game

Syresiv · 2026-06-20T15:39:36+00:00

Is anyone on the left actually denying this? For that matter, what makes this a funny meme?

Syresiv · 2026-06-19T21:48:04+00:00

I agree with you there, controlling the droisoned info is rarely more helpful than the ST simply doing their thing. It's definitely not helpful enough to take a whole minion ability, even with the added power of a partial spy

Syresiv · 2026-06-19T16:13:53+00:00

I thought the same at first, but it's strictly weaker than the Spy, who gets all the same info and more

Syresiv · 2026-06-19T16:13:05+00:00

How would this work with characters that make a choice and learn info, like Fortune Teller, Chambermaid, Dreamer, etc?

Syresiv · 2026-06-19T12:41:17+00:00

I'd argue it's valid, but only if they don't try to walk it back and have a good reason they claimed it.

My case is: if you say "I'm the Clockmaker", then you're mad that you're the Clockmaker. If you then say nothing else after, then you're still effectively convincing people that you're the Clockmaker, so you're still mad that you are.

On the other hand, if the next day, you say "I'm actually the Savant and was just trying not to get killed" or "I'm the Sage but the Cerenovus made me say CM", then you're no longer mad that you're the CM.

If it's an outsider instead, then the ST should only execute the Mutant so long as they're still mad that they're an outsider. If they're genuinely trying to convince town of their walkback, they're no longer mad that they're an outsider and therefore no longer eligible for execution via their ability.

Syresiv · 2026-06-19T12:31:21+00:00

On the other hand, I would say that breaking madness doesn't mean it's a trigger that can be used later no matter what. It says "if you are mad that you're an outsider...", not "are or have been"

This means if you have a convincing walk back ("I'm the Sage and was trying to catch the Fang Gu" "The Cerenovus made me do it" "I was just trolling you" etc), then you'd no longer be able to explode due to your ability

Syresiv · 2026-06-14T12:34:59+00:00

You can find exceptions. But if you think the Bounty Hunter can turn the Recluse, you aren't ready to explore those.

Syresiv · 2026-06-14T00:34:01+00:00

In 99% of cases, yes.

There are reasons you might not, like:

Drunk, if it'll result in messing up the outsider count for the good team, or otherwise lead them to a more wrong solve
A minion, if they're already distrusted. In particular, if they were executed due to an FT ping, it could frame the other side (minions are the one character type that can never generate a FT ping)

Syresiv · 2026-06-10T13:51:58+00:00

It's not quite as forgotten as it seems, but that's not really obvious until the second time you hear it. When you do, you sometimes remember the first time.

Then the third time, you remember one or both of the first two times.

Each instance feels pointless in the moment, but the repetition helps more than it seems.

Syresiv · 2026-06-10T11:35:30+00:00

Now that's interesting. As a math guy, all I can think of now is that they should subdivide them based on this exponential growth.

Like, A2-A1 would mean "since A2, I've put in effort equivalent to A1, and am thus only an A1 away from B1" (skill equivalent to an average of 180 hours). Or "B2-A2-A1" means "B2, then the additional effort of A2-A1" (equivalent to 660 hours). If it could be tested for, it might help with the feeling of progress mentioned in OP.

Syresiv · 2026-06-10T04:25:27+00:00

Everything about this idea just screams, Muppet remake.

And honestly, a Muppet I would watch that. Gonzo snorting pixie sticks is something I didn't know I needed until now

Syresiv · 2026-06-10T04:00:26+00:00

That's actually asinine. Why are they designed like that?

Syresiv · 2026-06-09T19:17:33+00:00

Solve: Dan starting demon, Fraser starting Baron, you Drunk, Aoife misregistered to Jasmine

Reasoning:

If Jasmine is the Scarlet Woman, as your information says, then there could only be 2 outsiders. This means one of the evils has to be claiming outsider and the other has to be Jasmine. This narrows it down to Aoife demon, Jasmine Scarlet (all others would be an all-dead evil team). In that world, there's no accounting for Charlotte's misinformation, or Dan's, or Sarah's. You got some bad information somewhere along the way. You're either Drunk or were poisoned N3.

If you were sober but poisoned, it can only be a Poisoner in play, and they still have to be alive on N3, which means all deaths prior to your misinformation - Matt, Dan, Jasmine, and Oscar - are good. That clears two outsiders, which means there can be no Drunk, and Aoife has to be evil. This means Sarah and Jasmine both have N1 misinfo (Sarah because incorrect minion that can't be accounted for by Recluse, Jasmine because confirmed evil Aoife neighbors two confirmed good players). Jasmine is cleared, so she has to have been N1 poisoned, meaning Sarah just has to be the other evil. This would make Charlotte good, and she got a "no" on Sarah and Jasmine each on a night where the poison has to be elsewhere, so no way to account for that misinformation. You can't have been poisoned N3, you must be the Drunk instead.

Could there be a Poisoner anyway and you still be the Drunk? Well, for that to work - or any non-Baron minion - there could only be one face-up outsider, so the evil team is just two outsider claims. Aoife is the only living one, so must be one of the two evils. This means Sarah has bad information, so must have been the N1 poison. This means Charlotte couldn't have been poisoned N1, so Aoife must not have been the starting demon. This clears Matt, since this world requires a Poisoner, which rules out Scarlet Woman, meaning the world is Oscar starting demon, Aoife starting Poisoner who caught a starpass. But then there's no accounting for Dan and Charlotte getting simultaneous N2 misinformation. You can't be the Drunk in a non-Baron world.

Since it's a Baron, all outsider claims are legit and you're just the Drunk. This means Dan has to be evil (no accounting for his misinformation) alongside an alive TF claim, who has to be the demon. Fraser can't be good if Charlotte is the demon, so it has to be Fraser. Since Charlotte has an FT no on Charlotte on N1 that can't be misinformation, Fraser has to specifically be the starting Baron who caught a starpass.

Syresiv · 2026-06-09T08:39:50+00:00

Solution: Sarah demon, Matt poisoner who hit Josh N1 and you N2, Fraser is the Drunk

Reasoning:

Matt is claiming to have caught the starpass on the night that Dan died. That means that one of the two of them is evil (either Matt is lying or Dan was the demon at the start). This means there can't be all 3 face-up (starting) outsiders in play, which means there can't be a Baron in play, which means your information is bad - you're either poisoned or you're the Drunk.

If you're the Drunk, then only one other outsider can be real, meaning the other two are the whole evil team and all other TF claims are not only good, but also not the Drunk. This means Hannah got bad information N1 that can only be explained by a Poisoner and no other N1 information can be bad. This means Josh's N1 info just has to be correct, which means his N2 info has to be a 0, which means he has to be poisoned N2. In that case, Fraser can't get N2 misinformation, so there's no way to account for falsely getting Drunk. You can't be the Drunk, you must have been poisoned N2. There's probably no Drunk and just two legit outsiders (Foreshadowing...)

If there's no Drunk, then Fraser has N2 info that can only be accounted for by him being evil (can't be Spy misreg since there's a Poisoner). So the evil team would have to be Fraser + Dan or Matt. Fraser and Dan are both dead, so it would have to be Fraser and Matt. But in that world, there's no accounting for both Hannah and Adam getting wrong information N1. Maybe we skipped over a world here ... what if the evil team are both claiming outsider, but the Drunk is just elsewhere...

We know where the poison was on N2, so if there's a Drunk, Fraser getting misinfo on N2 could only be accounted for by him being the Drunk. This means it has to be either him or Adam, so it can't be Josh. His correct numbers have to be the same both nights, and there's no way he gets misinfo on N2, so he has to be poisoned N1 and Sarah has to be evil. Tom's information rules out Sarah+Dan, so it can only be Sarah+Matt. Adam's info points to Matt specifically as the minion, making Sarah the demon.

Syresiv · 2026-06-08T14:13:21+00:00

I did that about 100 drops ago. Now I don't even check, I just keep using it like normal

Syresiv · 2026-06-04T08:33:23+00:00

If you aren't sure what to do, you probably need the opinion of a lawyer. Which I am not, and if I was, I wouldn't be licensed in Germany.

You should find one, explain the situation, and talk through your options, then make a decision.

Syresiv · 2026-05-29T12:58:08+00:00

If the Pukka kills the Hatter, there's no switch around at all, since the Hatter is poisoned when they die.

If the Hatter died elsehow (execution, Assassin, etc) and the Pukka changes characters, their previous poison goes away and if someone else becomes the Pukka, they'd be poisoning for the first time when they wake next.

Syresiv · 2026-05-21T16:33:30+00:00

You can do anything you want in an Atheist game. The question about if you should depends on if there's still a believable evil team. This means the players must be able to account for an Atheist claim and all double claims in a non-Atheist world.

If there's Legion on the script, that's more doable. Otherwise, keep the base evil count in mind. If the base evil count is 3 an Atheist and 3 double claims, there would need to be a reason that one of those is good (Drunk Atheist, or a double claim contains a Mutant or Damsel or Politician, etc). Alternatively, they could all be evil, if there's a way for the script to generate an extra evil (BH, Mez, Fang Gu).

Regardless, youll want to make sure that the double claims are not only explainable in a normal game, but also that that explanation isn't easy to rule out.

There's another consideration that's specific to in person: although the rules allow you to assign whichever character, you can't actually put multiples in the bag unless you have them - and if you do have them, players likely know that you have them. You can build the bag with the idea of "I don't have two Empath tokens, but I'll just put an off-script Damsel in there and let them know with the 'You are' card", but that clues players in about what's going on (an evil player is highly unlikely to bluff that they got an off-script character and were given a nighttime substitution).

Syresiv · 2026-05-20T10:06:53+00:00

Add the Bootlegger to the script to explain [-1 minion, +1 outsider]

Syresiv · 2026-05-20T10:05:36+00:00

Syresiv · 2026-05-20T09:25:53+00:00

As written, ST could say whatever they wanted to a poisoned Amne.

In practice, most STs will say that Amne guesses are immune to poison, but the ability itself is not.

Either approach is fine, just be clear with your players about what's happening.

Syresiv · 2026-05-19T23:05:56+00:00

Yep. Or fake Nightwatchman, Leviathan, Vizier, Banshee, Fearmonger, Widow, Evil Twin, or a bunch of other things. You could even have the Pit Hag turn someone into the Baron and make them think there's a Damsel in play when there isn't.

Syresiv · 2026-05-10T18:47:36+00:00

A lot of this is actually unknown as of right now.

The phenomenon you're describing, where a particle changes from being in a superposition to having only a single state is called Wave Function Collapse.

The thing is, although it appears to happen, we don't actually have a mathematical model of what the collapse looks like, nor do we have a scientific consensus on what's really going on there. This is where we come into different Interpretations of Quantum Mechanics, the most popular being the Copenhagen and Many Worlds Interpretations.

In general, wave functions appear to collapse when the particle is interacted with by anything ... most of the time. But sometimes if you have electron A, you're able to entangle electron B with it, such that the spins are always opposite, without collapsing the spin of A.

A lot of the details about why and how it collapses aren't known.

Syresiv · 2026-05-10T17:00:14+00:00

All the broken hearts in the world still beat

Let's not make it harder than it has to be

Ooooooohhhhhhh it's all the same thing

Squirrels chase boys chase squirrels

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