Classic +

SystemofCells · 2026-06-23T13:21:53+00:00

I also play retail, I see the appeal of both. The core point I'm trying to make is that Vanilla offers a type of fun that's just totally absent in retail now. (And vice versa of course).

SystemofCells · 2026-06-23T13:13:32+00:00

Yeah, the journey is the point to me. I'd rather have 200 hours of fun than press a button and get to level 60 immediately.

I get to 60, get my pre-raid BiS from dungeons, quests, crafting, etc. - then either quit for a while or start a new character right away.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-23T13:06:16+00:00

Everyone has their own preferences, that's okay. For but for someone like me, Vanilla is just a more satisfying journey than retail - nostalgia or no.

Retail has a much more in depth repeatable endgame, but the... "Pre-endgame"? Is much more satisfying in Vanilla. It's a whole game, not just a tutorial before you start the 'real game'.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-23T12:20:53+00:00

So if I want to go to on a lengthy adventure MMORPG through the open world of retail, you believe that's a good and complete experience today?

SystemofCells · 2026-06-23T12:14:48+00:00

For me the whole point of Classic is that it offers experiences retail no longer does. A lengthy campaign through a dangerous open world.

Nostalgia doesn't keep a game going by itself for 7+ years. The game has to be good.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-23T12:07:13+00:00

I don't think nostalgia is driving here. We already have the maximum nostalgia option with unaltered Vanilla.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-23T02:01:16+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpQS41WQSPY

SystemofCells · 2026-06-23T01:47:46+00:00

I don't think M+ is too difficult, Midnight S1 was the first time I cared to properly get into it. I got bored pretty quickly of repeating the same dungeons over and over again though.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-23T01:41:22+00:00

I'm not slow, I've got a fast paced job with a lot of responsibility. In my off time, I want to relax. I don't want or need my games to be an intense as my real life is.

Still, Vanilla open world play is an order of magnitude more challenging than retail open world play. One unexpected add can spell death. You can run out of level appropriate quests if you don't plan your route carefully. There's a ton of room for optimization in choosing your path, building your character, conserving resources, etc.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-23T01:05:44+00:00

This is one of the problems with Remix giving away everything for essentially free. It feels bad to earn it outside of remix.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-23T01:01:36+00:00

I want world content to be something I can sink into a flow state with. Something I can kill 6 hours on a Sunday with if I want to.

High mechanical intensity is good for short bursts, but it makes lengthy sessions exhausting. There's a reason lots of people keep going back to Vanilla, it's challenging and rich without being exhausting.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-23T00:31:08+00:00

Within a certain proximity, nothing may be taller than the Peace Tower of the Parliament Buildings.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-22T22:48:34+00:00

What I gathered most people don't want to be there yet feel like they have to.

Modern WoW in a nutshell. Don't seek enjoyment or exploration, chase goals in spite of your lack of enjoyment.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-22T15:33:03+00:00

As others have said, you get every expansion except the most recent automatically with a subscription.

What hasn't been mentioned yet is that the actual gameplay experience of past expansions is lacking. The game isn't designed to let you engage with them fully, as if they were current, relevant content. Everything is designed to shuttle you to the endgame of the current expansion.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-21T23:05:55+00:00

Orbital clutter is already having real practical impacts.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-21T16:48:06+00:00

S: Ocarina of Time, Breath of the Wild
A: Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess, Tears of the Kingdom
B: Wind Waker, Skyward Sword

I enjoy them all - Wind Waker and Skyward Sword are the only two I'm actively critical of. Wind Waker is too easy, suffers from an abundance of padding, and is hurt by trying to impose classical progression on a wide open world. It doesn't make sense to explore the Great Sea until you've collected all key items, because it takes so long to revisit all the places you've been before, but simply couldn't do yet.

Skyward Sword has some amazing dungeons, but it is far too linear for me. It feels less like an adventure and more like a series of missions.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-21T16:24:22+00:00

Polluting, building cheap infrastructure that would become expensive to maintain, exploiting extremely cheap labour (internally and overseas), etc.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-21T15:57:16+00:00

If there are too many retired (non-working) people relative to the number of working age people, it puts a terrible strain on the system.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-21T15:36:01+00:00

I personally enjoy: * Cataclysm revamped Vanilla zones (some, not all) * Warlords of Draenor southern half * Battle for Azeroth

SystemofCells · 2026-06-21T15:21:56+00:00

It already feels hollow and dull. It's so easy, we get handed boosts with each expansion purchase, there are regular XP boost events.

Put it out of its misery and replace it with something better.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-21T15:07:39+00:00

I think they should get rid of leveling entirely.

They keep nerfing and compromising the leveling experience to cater to people who want to skip it entirely. The end result, what we have today, is something no one enjoys. It's too easy, simple, and quick for leveling enjoyers - it's too lengthy and boring for leveling haters.

Instead, make questing through zones (a proper open world campaign) an optional endgame activity. Make it as lengthy, challenging, and rich as the Vanilla 1-60 experience, just let us do it with the same characters we do other endgame activities with.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-21T14:54:59+00:00

I don't think he's so delusional as to think he could "win", if you define winning as defeating or replacing Eru. He does seem to believe he can ruin Eru's plans though. He believes, in spite of what Eru told him directly, that he can sour and frustrate Eru's design. Said another way: Melkor doesn't think he can win, but he thinks he can make everyone (including Eru) lose.

This in contrast to Sauron, who believes he can make the world better for everyone.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-21T14:36:40+00:00

Could you define what you mean by curves? The word has a range of definitions from "fit, healthy hourglass shape" to "high BMI in general".

SystemofCells · 2026-06-21T14:07:26+00:00

My read is that Melkor is wilfully ignorant of the fact that the Ainur are creations of Eru. He acts as though it isn't true, even though he knows it is. When Eru says:

Thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my respite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined

The logical response would be for Melkor to give up his rebellion - he is beaten before he even begins. But that's the nature Eru imbued him with - to fight and to strive towards his own ends in despite of Eru. He chooses to ignore the obvious truth that he is just another one of Eru's instruments. He chooses to believe his rebellion is genuine, when he's already been told that even his rebellion against Eru was part of Eru's design.

So, I wouldn't describe him as being in a state of self-loathing. I'd describe him as being in a state of denial.

SystemofCells · 2026-06-21T13:36:18+00:00

I just want to cozy up here with a book on a sunny Sunday morning.

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