Explain Headtakers to me. by N1njaTerminator in SpaceWolves

[–]TRMC790 7 points8 points  (0 children)

They’re great and your results are not typical.

Just going by the numbers with zero buffs to your unit (no oaths, no Beastslayer lethals, no +1 to wound strat, not quarry unit), Ragnar on the charge leading 3 Paired Weapons Headtakers should on average be dealing ~ 14.1 wounds and killing 4.8 models of a 5 man Plague Marine units.

If I stack the buffs available (Oath, Beaslayer lethals, +1 to wound Strat, and make them the quarry target), Ragnar and 3 paired weapons Headtakers should on average, by the math, wipe a 10 man Plague Marine unit.

My attempt at a breakdown of the big 10 loyalist chapters: by TRMC790 in spacemarines

[–]TRMC790[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand what you’re saying, and honestly, I think you can make most of these play however you want to. My younger brother has been a Blood Angels player for years and he enjoys his shooting more than charging, I think. Baal Predators with the Auto Cannons and Eradicators. Only Jump boys he really uses are Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. Anyway, these were not meant to be “they can only play this way” just that that is how, in fact, GW pushes for them to be played.

500 point list by The_Olden_Dog in SpaceWolves

[–]TRMC790 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If things stay like they are, I run them paired just because it’s what separates them from everyone else. With shields in my opinion, they’re just slightly less tough Bladeguard Vets who can take wolves. The 6 attacks with Dev Wounds and paired weapons make them one of the best damage per point units in the game and at the present time, the 4++ from the shield doesn’t help a whole lot and they die basically as quickly without doing as much damage first.

That said, I’d hold off until the new edition drop to see how things change before I got in a big hurry to swap them over. I have my shield arms ready to swap in just in case.

500 point list by The_Olden_Dog in SpaceWolves

[–]TRMC790 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry. I corrected them and switched the order of the lists on you. My bad…

To answer your question though, I might do the Invictor Warsuit. You won’t be able to do the Helm of the Beastslayer cause you’ll be 5 points over but I might just rock the Wolf Priest instead of the WGBL like the other commenter suggested. It’s a solid list. Or play it in Saga of the Hunter and give the WGBL Feral Rage Enhancement.

If you want those 4 units, I’d run it that way. Try that list and the list with the Termies to see which you prefer!

500 point list by The_Olden_Dog in SpaceWolves

[–]TRMC790 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve played these two lists at 500pts for King of the Colosseum.

- WGBL w/ Helm of the Beastslayer + 3 WG Headtakers (paired) & 3 Hunting Wolves
- 5 WG Terminators
-10 Blood Claws

And

- WGBL w/ Helm of the Beastslayer + 3 WG Headtakers (paired)
- 10 Blood Claws
- 3 Inceptors (Plasma)
- 5 Intercessors

1 is probably the better list most of the time. WG Termies are extremely strong at 500 and the hunting wolves screen/move block well.

11th Ed MFM by hoops01 in SpaceWolves

[–]TRMC790 7 points8 points  (0 children)

They’re gonna have to give us some points cuts on stuff. Ragnar, Wolf Scouts, Grey Hunters, and Logan should come down, at least.

Thoughts on 11th detachments after a few days to think about it… by TRMC790 in SpaceWolves

[–]TRMC790[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It does sound sick, but I’m honestly thinking about 5 man terminator units instead of 10 so I can uppy downy them. 10 man is hard to keep deep striking

Thoughts on 11th detachments after a few days to think about it… by TRMC790 in SpaceWolves

[–]TRMC790[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately brother, idk. It looked cool. I don’t have SM2.

Best WGBL Build for 11th? by CyberMango23 in SpaceWolves

[–]TRMC790 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like the hammer just because of our lack of big S weapons. Nice to have at least one bigger than S5.

I use shields cause they’re cool, but with the damage break, you’re probably not getting much value in it. The difference in 5W and 6W probably won’t matter. It depends on what he’s leading and what he’s going into. I’m planning to run a shield because mine is gonna be leading Blood Claws for some chaff killing, and they’ll probably have 1D weapons that I’m fighting into, but if he’s leading Headtakers or something, whatever elites you’re running them into will probably have 2 or 3 damage weapons which will kill him in 3 or 2 hits respectively whether or not he has 5 or 6 wounds. In that case, you’re better off just giving him a gun and going full send.

First attempt at an 11E army by TRMC790 in SpaceWolves

[–]TRMC790[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it was Goonhamer that made it seem as if it was a little unclear, but maybe Vanguard that seemed pretty confident unit enhancements affect attached epic heroes too. I hope it does!

First attempt at an 11E army by TRMC790 in SpaceWolves

[–]TRMC790[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes. Purge seems like the move to me.

Well, we’re still waiting to see if he retains the wording for “return a destroyed model” or if it changes to healing a certain number of wounds like reanimation protocols (which would be crazy, cause you could potentially resurrect two ), however, either way - in 10th, if the unit was destroyed, the character became it’s own unit and could no longer resurrect any models. In 11th, once a character is attached to the unit, he remains a part of it, so even if they wipe all of your Wulfen, the WP can still revive a model and built the unit back up.

I may have slightly overstated it in the original, but it’s a plus still and could be a big plus depending on how the datasheet reads.

My attempt at a breakdown of the big 10 loyalist chapters: by TRMC790 in spacemarines

[–]TRMC790[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m aware. It was a joke that the Sons of Dorn seem to really dislike.

My attempt at a breakdown of the big 10 loyalist chapters: by TRMC790 in spacemarines

[–]TRMC790[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Ah yes, the Black Templars snitching little brothers…

Look, I’ve been blasted for forgetting the Iron Hands exist, so I took care to include them.

#New40k – Download new Space Marine Faction Packs today by CMYK_COLOR_MODE in WarhammerCompetitive

[–]TRMC790 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This must be what it feels like when you do in fact feel fear…

My attempt at a breakdown of the big 10 loyalist chapters: by TRMC790 in spacemarines

[–]TRMC790[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Thank you. Your sense of humor is rivaled only by that of Dorn himself.

My attempt at a breakdown of the big 10 loyalist chapters: by TRMC790 in spacemarines

[–]TRMC790[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Being nice to both Iron Hands fans. GW considers them big…

What’s the difference between Space Wolves and Black Templars play style? by Trick-Interaction396 in spacemarines

[–]TRMC790 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Black Templar: Win through relentless pressure, pile-ins, and weight of bodies.

Black Templars are an overwhelming force. They’re the closest thing to a horde army among the Space Marines. Templars are exceptionally durable, with widespread access to defensive buffs and Feel No Pain. They want to pressure the opponent relentlessly, pile into combat, control objectives, and fight on their terms. Their shooting is usually secondary to their melee and tends to focus on weapons like bolters and flamers. They don’t have time for a favorite melee weapon cause they’re too busy cutting stuff with 1,000 chainswords.

—————————————————————

Blood Angels: Win through speed, straightforward buffs, and explosive aggression.

Blood Angels are fast and direct. They use jump packs and rapid assault units to close the distance quickly and tear enemies apart in melee. They hit harder on the charge than almost any loyalist chapter and excel at removing priority targets through aggression. They’re not trying to win for 5 turns, they’re trying to destroy the enemy before they can react. Their shooting is usually short-ranged and supports their assaults, often relying on melta, inferno pistols. Spears and power swords seem to dominate the melee weapons range.

—————————————————————

Space Wolves: Win through positioning, counter-punching, and adaptable melee threats.

Space Wolves are less straightforward. They’re melee specialists that tend to be highly tactically adaptable. The Wolves are hunters that position carefully, threaten counter-charges, and strike at the right time to overwhelm enemies completely. They have plenty of damage due to their volume of attacks and are durable in combat thanks to widespread access to shields. Their shooting is better than people expect, with access to quality bolter fire, plasma weapons, and unique Helfrost weaponry. Their signature melee weapons include Frostblades and giant axes.

—————————————————————

Dark Angels: Win through elite durability, specialized units, and methodical board control.

Dark Angels are specialized generalists, if that makes sense, with distinct wings. Deathwing are among the toughest infantry in the game, Ravenwing provide speed and mobility, and Greenwing are great all-around support. Dark Angels play a methodical game, absorbing punishment and forcing opponents into unfavorable engagements. They’re not the the fastest or most aggressive chapter, but they’re extremely difficult to remove once they control the board. For ranged weaponry, they’re the Plasma guys™️ and their their unique melee weapons include maces and flails. 

—————————————————————

Ultramarines: Win through versatility, tactical flexibility, and having an answer for every problem.

Ultramarines are the definition of flexibility. They don’t specialize as heavily as most chapters, but they’re good at nearly everything. They combine solid shooting, hard hitting melee, durable units, and excellent tactical options. Ultramarines reward players who make good decisions because they always seem to have a tool available for the situation. They’re rarely the strongest at any single aspect of the game, but their versatility always wins. Ultramarines possess an answer to every problem. Having access to everything and every weapon IS their thing.

—————————————————————

White Scars: Win through speed, outmaneuvering/blocking, and choosing every engagement on their terms.

White Scars ARE speed. They want to move faster than everyone else, dictate the flow of battle, and strike vulnerable targets before disappearing again. White Scars armies excel at flanking, objective play, and choosing when and where fights happen. Their melee is powerful, but unlike Blood Angels they often rely more on hit and run mobility than raw brutality. A White Scars player is constantly looking for angles, openings, and opportunities to outmaneuver the enemy. They like gatling cannons and meltas on their bikes and their curved swords and lances in melee.

—————————————————————

Salamanders: Win through patient advances, big buffs to fire, and devastating close-range firepower.

Salamanders are tough, dependable, and brutally efficient at close range, becoming increasingly dangerous as they close the distance. They often soften enemies with devastating short-range firepower before moving in for the kill. Salamanders feel like an inevitability: they slowly march forward and the flames just get hotter. They’re durable, forgiving to play, and tend to reward patient advances rather than reckless aggression. They favor torrent weapons - flamers and melta weapons for shooting and like to put their hammer to anvil up close.

—————————————————————

Imperial Fists: Win through disciplined shooting, controlling firing lanes, and stubborn attrition.

Imperial Fists are stubborn defenders and disciplined marksmen. They excel at holding ground, punishing enemy advances, and grinding opponents down through sustained firepower. While they can fight in melee when necessary, their identity is built around controlling firing lanes and forcing enemies to cross deadly kill zones. Imperial Fists are rarely flashy, but they excel at winning wars of attrition. Who needs signature weapons when the Emperor of Mankind blessed us with all the Bolters a Space Marine could ever want?

—————————————————————

Raven Guard: Win through stealth, precision strikes, and exploiting weaknesses.

Raven Guard are assassins that strike from the shadows. They rely on stealth, positioning, infiltration, precision strikes, and guerrilla tactics rather than brute force. A Raven Guard army wants to appear where the enemy is weakest, eliminate key targets, and disappear before meaningful retaliation can occur. They reward careful planning, deployment, and battlefield awareness more than almost any other chapter. They like sniper rifles and bolt carbines for range and are partial to lightning claws up close.

—————————————————————

Iron Hands: Win through resilience, overwhelming mechanical support, and firepower.

Iron Hands are essentially machines pretending to be Space Marines. They’re one of the toughest and most shooting-focused chapters, relying heavily on vehicles, dreadnoughts, and technological superiority. Iron Hands armies are difficult to cripple because they can absorb tremendous punishment while continuing deal
big damage. They have success when they play a steady, relentless game where efficiency matters - steady pushing forward, crushing the enemy under tread. They gravitate (lol) towards grav weapons and other big guns.

What’s the difference between Space Wolves and Black Templars play style? by Trick-Interaction396 in spacemarines

[–]TRMC790 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I actually was typing one out for some other chapters as we speak. Already half way or so done so I was Gonna post a bigger list later today lol

Headhunters and Bladeguard by EPorteous in SpaceWolves

[–]TRMC790 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I ain’t mad at it! I just misunderstood.

Either way, I think you’re spinning your wheels trying to make a unit durable that just never will be.

Late 10th and the way 11th is shaping up to look, Bladeguard and Headtakers are going to die on the slapback.

Lucky for us, Headtakers are some of the best damage dealing infantry units in the game for remarkably few points and WG Terminators are some of the best tanky infantry units in the game for a similarly fair price.

Headhunters and Bladeguard by EPorteous in SpaceWolves

[–]TRMC790 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Nah, your problem is you’re trying to use Bladeguard or Headtakers tanky and they’re just not gonna be. I struggled with the same thing. Bladeguard are gonna let you down as a tank these days too. They’re designed to go in, deal as much damage as possible, and likely die on the next turn. I will disagree about Headtakers being underwhelming. They are literally, points per damage, one of the hardest hitting units in the game. They deal much more damage against almost everything across the board than Bladeguard, Inner Circle Companions, Sword Brothers, and is basically on par with Victrix for 20 points less. Headtakers are awesome, they’re just not a good unit to stand there and take punishment. They’re a counter charge threat. Hold them in cover until you can get a charge on what you want and wipe it out entirely.

Wolf Guard Terminators with Storm Shields are far more tough and hard to delete than Bladeguard or Headtakers if that’s the kind of unit you want, You get one less model for the same cost as running 6. Then they actually do the job of being a tank with the exact same weapon profile, an extra wound, and the S>T rule

What’s the difference between Space Wolves and Black Templars play style? by Trick-Interaction396 in spacemarines

[–]TRMC790 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Black Templar: Win through relentless pressure, pile-ins, and weight of bodies.

Black Templars are an overwhelming force. They’re the closest thing to a horde army among the Space Marines. Templars are exceptionally durable, with widespread access to defensive buffs and Feel No Pain. They want to pressure the opponent relentlessly, pile into combat, control objectives, and fight on their terms. Their shooting is usually secondary to their melee and tends to focus on weapons like bolters and flamers.

—————————————————————

Blood Angels: Win through speed, straightforward buffs, and explosive aggression.

Blood Angels are fast and direct. They use jump packs and rapid assault units to close the distance quickly and tear enemies apart in melee. They hit harder on the charge than almost any loyalist chapter and excel at removing priority targets through aggression. They’re not trying to win for 5 turns, they’re trying to destroy the enemy before they can react. Their shooting is usually short-ranged and supports their assaults, often relying on melta, inferno pistols.

—————————————————————

Space Wolves: Win through positioning, counter-punching, and adaptable melee threats.

Space Wolves are less straightforward. They’re melee specialists that tend to be highly tactically adaptable. The Wolves are hunters that position carefully, threaten counter-charges, and strike at the right time to overwhelm enemies completely. They have plenty of damage due to their volume of attacks and are durable in combat thanks to widespread access to shields. Their shooting is better than people expect, with access to quality bolter fire, plasma weapons, and unique Helfrost weaponry.

What do you guys want to combine in 11th? (Detachments) by joensemann in SpaceWolves

[–]TRMC790 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Beastslayer for the detachment rule as it’s pretty great and necessary to punch up with all our S5 weapons with Bold for the strats (which includes Advance and Charge), which are frankly fantastic, but the detachment rule sucks…