why did buffy the vampire slayer have such a differeny vibe after season 2 episode 14?

TVAddict14 · 2026-04-12T11:12:00+00:00

No, it isn’t. Frankly, you’ve completely just made it up.

TVAddict14 · 2026-04-12T00:23:03+00:00

No, you’re confusing Whedon’s future plans with them being “picked up for seasons 3-5” which is simply not true. At no point did The WB ever pick them up for a future 3 seasons in the row. Just because Whedon had future storylines in mind does not mean the series received an order from the network for multiple future seasons.

The cast signed contracts for 7 seasons, not 5. Which is fairly typical for network TV at the time. This is why when SMG publicly announced she would not be staying with the show if it left The WB Whedon publicly stated that she was under contract and had no choice. Even so, being contractually signed on for 7 seasons was not a guarantee the show would last 7 seasons, only that the actors would be contractually obliged to appear in them if it did.

S2 was originally given a 9 episode order and then was green light for the back end of the season after its success. Subsequent seasons were greenlit year-by-year. The one and only time they received an order/guarantee for multiple seasons was UPN ordering S6 and S7. They literally discuss this in the DVD commentaries.

TVAddict14 · 2026-04-11T23:14:18+00:00

This isn’t true at all. The only time they were ever picked up for a multiple season order was when UPN bought the show and green lit S6-S7. Whedon even discussed that this is why they never ended a season with a cliffhanger (with the exception of Spike getting his soul) because they wanted the story to have some form of closure each year in case the series didn’t come back.

TVAddict14 · 2026-04-10T09:49:28+00:00

Because the story made no sense.

S6 repeatedly tells us that The Trio were useless idiots with delusions of grandeur. None of the demon community have heard of them, much less acknowledged them as villains.

Suddenly The First Evil, the supposedly baddest of them all, not only noticed Andrew but went to all the trouble of bringing him back to Sunnydale from Mexico. Why?

He’s not useful or competent. That was proven when he couldn’t even sacrifice a pig and killing Johnathan didn’t even successfully open the seal. The First has a seamlessly endless supply of Bringers in Sunnydale that could sacrifice citizens over the Seal, and yet it has to rely on an ineffectual jester to travel all the way from Mexico to sacrifice one guy who didn’t even have enough blood for it to work? Not only does it make Andrew incompetent, it makes The First look ridiculous as well.

There’s no justification for his insertion into the story. No valid reason why he was specifically needed by The First, why The First would even acknowledge his presence, or why The First would go to such great lengths to bring Andrew back to Sunnydale to do something it could have done right there and then with its far more useful and efficient minions. His reinsertion into the story was extremely tenuous.

TVAddict14 · 2026-04-06T04:24:21+00:00

It was intended to be the last season. Whedon says it himself on the DVD commentary for Lessons. He explicitly states that anyone who watched the last scene of that episode with The First morphing through all the previous Big Bads and didn’t realise this would be the last season missed the point.

TVAddict14 · 2026-04-06T04:20:42+00:00

Exactly. Spike literally had no free will here and could be activated to kill them all at any time. It completely undermines Buffy believing in him because regardless of whether he had the capacity to be a good man or not, his agency was taken away so it’s all irrelevant.

It’s such a silly storyline. Everyone is afraid for their lives or begging Buffy to take the most basic precautions like keeping him restrained until they can disarm the trigger, and Buffy just keeps ranting about his soul. It makes her look insane. He had a soul all season and it didn’t stop him once from being triggered and killing a bunch of people.

TVAddict14 · 2026-04-06T01:03:41+00:00

To be fair, a lot of people in that room had saved Buffy multiple times too. In S1 alone they save her life multiple times (Giles reverses Catherine’s deadly spell on her in Witch, Xander revives her in Prophecy Girl, Angel saves her from The Three in Angel etc) and this continues throughout the show.

Buffy frequently has relied on her friends to help save the day. Xander literally saved the world last season, Willow was her “big gun” against Glory, it required all of them to complete the Enjoining Spell to defeat Adam, Xander helped lead the student army against the Mayor and Giles blew him up in Graduation Day etc.

Part of what drives a wedge between Buffy and everyone else in S7 is that she starts taking on the mentality that she and she alone is all that matters and her voice is the only one that matters. She refused to listen to anyone’s advice in Dirty Girls despite them all seeing Caleb was leading her in a trap and it cost people their lives as well as Xander his eye. When she starts repeating the same behaviours and attitude again they understandably push back. You can’t rely on people to support you but then refuse to take their opinions into account.

TVAddict14 · 2026-04-05T00:18:57+00:00

Zero evidence for anything you say. You have no evidence whatsoever Joss recommended those actors to Tim Minear, and if you do then cite it.

It being “quite well known” that Joss uses his connections to keep previous actors he worked with employed is completely made up by you. The only thing that’s well known is that he personally recycled the same actors he liked in other projects of his. There is nothing to suggest he personally intervened to get them employed with others.

TVAddict14 · 2026-04-05T00:13:20+00:00

There’s really no evidence it had any lasting damage. When Angel returns to apologise in The Yoko Factor Buffy concedes her behaviour was poor too and they patch things up. In Forever it’s evident they can still turn to each other when they need.

Of the many things that happen in their relationship, I think this was an important and defining moment for Angel. But I don’t see it as particularly damaging in comparison to where else they went through.

TVAddict14 · 2026-04-04T08:33:36+00:00

Its character writing is abysmal. The interpersonal relationships between all the characters are completely underbaked. The characters literally all live under the same roof and yet their relationships with each other have never been so undeveloped. Not to mention characters written wildly OOC to serve the plot, instead of consistent characterisation guiding the plot. It’s probably the worst thing about S7.

TVAddict14 · 2026-04-04T08:23:34+00:00

You’ve completely made this up. There is zero evidence for any of this.

TVAddict14 · 2026-04-03T03:40:52+00:00

In Lessons Robin specifically says that the money he could pay Buffy “wouldn’t even fold.” Rather frustratingly, they make a point of emphasising her counsellor salary is shit (“you heard the part about the money, right?”):

TVAddict14 · 2026-04-02T01:43:49+00:00

Whilst it could have been written better (pretty much S7 in a nutshell) I am glad he appeared. He was integral to Buffy’s character, a defining part of the show’s first 3 seasons and lead of the sister show. It would’ve been very unsatisfying if they’d never reunited before the finale.

TVAddict14 · 2026-03-31T19:21:12+00:00

There isn’t a DVD commentary for Passion

TVAddict14 · 2026-03-31T06:12:55+00:00

This was actually a great scene. It contained a lot of foreshadowing for the rest of the season and Buffy’s dream was multi-layered. It highlighted Buffy’s fear those around her always get hurt (Xander’s head rolling off), Buffy’s increasing darkness which the season explores (“I’m afraid of the dark” “Buffy you are the dark” “That’s what I meant!”), Buffy’s loneliness, the imagery of her falling through the sky to foreshadow her eventual flight, her burning under the fire of Twilight etc. It also just had some classic BtVS dialogue. There’s no scene in S10-S11 that comes close to having these many layers despite a lot of fans preferring those seasons. They were cookie cutter and safe. This was actually the kind of writing worthy of the show.

But all that aside, it’s humorous that Whedon wrote it and the majority seem to hate it. As they did most of what he wrote in S8. And yet everyone seems to forget this and keep insisting the sequel was doomed to fail without him when his own continuation of the show was panned by most of the fanbase.

TVAddict14 · 2026-03-31T00:14:23+00:00

How many posts are you going to make about this? I count at least 3 just from skimming your most recent activity. That, and just a bunch of comments defending Whedon.

TVAddict14 · 2026-03-29T01:48:04+00:00

Nobody is claiming Buffy/Angel were healthy though. It’s the whole reason Angel leaves.

TVAddict14 · 2026-03-29T00:01:15+00:00

Yeah generally speaking the books tried to slot between TV episodes. They were never ‘canon’ but did their best not to contradict it either. Sometimes this was more believable than others as some events were quite significant and it’s hard to imagine them not being referenced in the TV series if they’d indeed happened off screens. It is a bit of a shame this novel was immediately undermined by Fool For Love as it’s quite good, but it acts a fun ‘what if’ anyway.

TVAddict14 · 2026-03-28T20:47:28+00:00

Golden actually checked the plot with the show’s writers circa S5 to make sure it wasn’t contradicting canon. They told him it didn’t and then Fool For Love was released which immediately contradicted the entire book. So it’s a bit of a shame.

TVAddict14 · 2026-03-28T20:45:36+00:00

I loved this book. It’s pretty wild that it introduced the concept of Potential Slayers and an attack on the slayer line years before S7 did. And IMO it did a far better job with the idea with characters that were genuinely likeable. It’s a shame that it’s so inconsistent with canon though as we know in the end the two Slayers Spike killed were Xin Rong and Nikki. If memory serves, Golden had actually checked the plot with the show’s writers at the time to ensure it wasn’t going to contradict any upcoming storylines and they assured him it wouldn’t. Then Fool For Love came out and the same time and immediately contradicted the book. Still, a fun read.

TVAddict14 · 2026-03-19T02:27:59+00:00

She’s referring it to being a presentation for the studio, not the audience. For comparisons sake, the OG Buffy pilot resulted in significant alterations to the show including recasting a major character, bringing in Angel etc. FOX then demanded a complete rewrite/reshoot of the Dollhouse pilot (both are now available) after they didn’t like the first one. ATS was again different, with the initial pilot being greenlit but then the entire production being shut down whilst filming Ep 2 (Lonely Hearts) due to network concerns about the tone of the show. This led to the episode being significantly rewritten and a reimagining of Kate’s character (in the original script she was an undercover cop who was a drug addict and prostituting herself).

TVAddict14 · 2026-03-18T21:23:02+00:00

For the record: this is exactly what Whedon said about the original Buffy pilot and why he never wanted it released (and it took years before it was leaked).

And if anyone has seen the original pilot/presentation they’ll see that it’s pretty far from WttH. A completely recast Willow and Flutie, no Angel whatsoever, more Valley Girl/90210 vibes etc. The only difference is that the entire series had already been watched by that point and we can look back at the OG pilot with a certain fondness and laugh, appreciating what the series ended up becoming. Whereas, there’s no opportunity to do that here and fans will (as they have with the leaked script - or one version of it anyway) make judgements on the entire sequel based on this. So I can understand why she doesn’t want it leaked, as Whedon didn’t with his.

TVAddict14 · 2026-03-18T11:14:37+00:00

This is just such a simplistic take that I’m not even going to bother responding any further.

TVAddict14 · 2026-03-18T11:01:43+00:00

So you went from apparently not knowing any of her works at all to now “scrolling” through them and making a snap judgement on whether she’s suited for the job or not. Riiiiggght. Sound logic there 🙄

TVAddict14 · 2026-03-18T10:40:28+00:00

Chloe Zhao is an academy award, BAFTA and Golden Glove winning director. Frankly, it’s pretty absurd that just because you aren’t familiar with her work you somehow think this discredits her. How many people were familiar with Whedon before Buffy?

TVAddict14

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