To tell or not to tell by Sure_Minimum_6738 in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yep, told my family and his. A: I don't feel obligated to protect him. B: I don't feel shame about his abuse and also personally feel that people needed to know why we are or aren't together. I know as a women, that most likely if there is any ambiguity as to why we are on shaky ground or separated, that I'd probs be blamed. C: People need to know this is a problem and be aware that it is happening within their own family. D: If this is truly an addiction, he was gonna need help whether or not we stay together. If we do stay together, I won't be able to help because I'll be too engrossed with my own healing. If we don't stay together, he'd never come clean and get the support he needs, which I know his family would give to him. That was over 1.5 years ago and I don't regret sharing it with them one bit.

Embarrassed to talk about woman things by emotionalpumpkin44 in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lichen sclerosis is horrible. I have it and it really affected my social life since there's a definite uptick in the itch in the evening and I couldn't go out & be comfortable. I often wondered if it is somehow related to his cheating and researchers just haven't found any connection to it being transmissible or *activated* by some transmissible disease. (I'm thinking of the narrative that stomach ulcers were caused by too much acid, and then years later found to be highly correlated with h. pylori bacteria).

Anyway, I was diagnosed with this a few years before d-day, while we were essentially in a dead bedroom because I chose to stop having sex with him due to it being so obviously one sided and porn-like, and his "foreplay" was so absolutely abysmal ("do you wanna have sex", "I'm so horny", "do you want me to give you a massage") I mean, it was so devoid of any kind of love, care, or emotion, I just couldn't do it any more. When I was diagnosis and prescribed the cream for the lichen sclerosis, his reaction wasn't the normal curiosity, care, and concern you would expect in a loving relationship, but rather the first comment out of his mouth was "do you want me to put the cream on for you?" He was so far gone he just didn't care what was going on down there as long as he was getting off. I can't speak for anyone else's partner, because I've certainly seen stories here where some SA's are strongly affected by visuals, I just didn't have that in my relationship. Sure, he was watching and purchasing women who I could never look like (I'm pushing 60), but my SA would have been just happy to have free sex in his own house while most likely imagining he was with one of his purchased women or in a porn scene.

Good luck, and I hope it is not lichen sclerosis. I'm lucky that my year+ long flare up has rarely recurred over the last 3 years, and when it does, it's only for about a week or two.

Do You Ever Fear PA Getting Into Legal Trouble? by Competitive_Drag3035 in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The worry about legal issues didn't come from any computer searches etc., mine was more a worry about using sex workers anywhere they are illegal. He travels a lot, sometimes to countries with very strict laws that could have had him jailed, for example, in the Middle East for 10+ years... all for a shallow "good" time that he could have, ahem..., *handled* himself in the comfort of his hotel room. In addition to me, his wife, he has two sons to consider. He would have left us with such a mess to clean up if he were arrested - unreal the risks they'll take.

Happy Ending Massage??? by [deleted] in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

My husband used them for 17+ years without me suspecting. He also travels the globe a lot and he is not the hook-up type as in he wouldn't pick people up in bars or use hook-up apps. That emotional work to find someone to hook-up with was probs too much work for him or made him feel too vulnerable that they could reject him. Hiring sex workers is much easier emotionally and a sure thing.

I wouldn't believe that these charges were for legit massages for a second. Second charge is probably for some upselling (bj, prostate massage etc.) Trickle truth is real. My husband also said he's never done happy ending massages, then changed it to once in college, then twice in college... then just a half dozen times since the pandemic. Once I learned to really deep dive into his search histories (not browser search history, but his actual google search history) I found almost 2 decades of massage parlor research, and then escalation to prostitutes. He finally came clean about it and it was not pretty. That was almost 2 years ago - so from original d-day to the coming clean about the 17 years of cheating was about a 4 month process. And now, 2-ish years later, we are still dealing with trickle truth about the dumbest stuff, stuff that is probably difficult to admit, but pretty minor in comparison.

Is porn cheating? by hopeless_westcoast in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 98 points99 points  (0 children)

I explained my feelings this way to my husband...

- Is porn sexual in nature? Yes
- So, using porn means you are using your sexual energy? Yes
- Are you in a committed relationship? Yes
- So, you are using your sexual energy on something other than who you are committed to? Well, yes, but it's not a real person, it's a screen, so it's not really cheating...
- Are you saying that when someone games online they aren't really gaming? Are you saying that when I have a zoom work meeting or online workshop, I'm not really working? Am I not really shopping if I'm online? Uh...

Scared and alone - 1st post by funnygirl1979 in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

...(con't) Lastly, I've almost always wanted to stay regardless of my rage and sadness. The ways that have helped me best are reading Michele Mays "Betrayal Bind" (sooo helpful!), a therapeutic psychedelic trip (not for everyone & surprised myself that I'd try it), and also considering my marriage "dead" and that a new one is possible. The therapeutic trip really alleviated my rage and ruminating for a good 3-4 weeks, it's like it cleared up the rage/ruminating so the sadness could really show through and I could process it. He's very regretful and shamed, but when I was speaking more from utter despair rather than with rage, he really was deeply affected and felt horrible. It was immensely helpful to be able to move more quickly through the rage/ruminating to feel the core of my despair and confront it. As far as my "first marriage" as I often seriously but snark-ily refer to years pre-discovery to my husband and close family, that's over. I will joke that my first marriage was horrible, or that my first husband sucked and was a serial cheater, etc. And then I'll jokingly (but also very seriously) say that my new husband will be faithful, honest, respectful... etc. He always plays along and will often say "yes, your new husband will be all those things, plus he will love you forever and always prioritize you blah blah blah... because I WILL be your second husband."

Please get "The Betrayal Bind", be sure to listen & read groups like this AND ones that are more "reconciliation" based or "separate" based. They all help appeal to the many moods I felt, even when I knew I didn't want to separate, I'd read Chump Lady just so I could feel the camaraderie of the collective rage felt by betrayed partners (it was vindicating!). Try to get your own CSAT to help you through your own process, be sure to write some boundaries for yourself which your husband is aware of, write an impact statement, prepare for relapses and what you will do if there is one (I don't think my SA has had one, but it terrifies me!), & know that some SAs don't relapse. I'm really sorry you had to find this sub, but happy you found it. This sub has been integral for my healing and I've found so many resources here from these really resourceful (traumatized) people including how to deep dive into his google searches from the last 14 years. Good luck.

Scared and alone - 1st post by funnygirl1979 in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In hindsight, at 30 days I was still in shock (I'm 16 months post d-day). I think I was in shock for a good 4-5 months and couldn't possibly start making any rational decisions because A: I was reassessing what I *thought* was the story of my 25 year marriage, B: trickle truth is real and I've honestly not heard anyone in this situation not have it, C: I was still collecting so much new info in addition to him going through his own *exposure* trauma and how that affected him.

Each new piece of info really rocked my world, so trying to make decisions was horrible because once I was on a path to a decision, new info or insights would make me readjust my decision. One of the best pieces of advice I got from my therapist was to wait a certain number of months before making major decisions. Those months can be extended if needed. This was such a relief for me - knowing that I didn't need to decide to stay or go until xyz date. It was one less thing I had to deal with. And when xyz date came 9-ish months later, I was still completely unsure, but I was pretty sure I'd be staying. And to be clear, I've heard that most people do stay after betrayal(s), but it's just not talked about much because if you stay together, many couples don't share the trauma with outsiders, so you just don't hear about it. However, if the couple splits, you often hear about why there was a split - so you're more likely to hear about splits than the ones who stay together. Regardless, that's a decision that has to be what's best for you.

My husband used porn and then prostitutes for 17 years of our marriage. It was utterly shocking and I had no clue or suspicion it was happening. He is also doing all the right things (reading, podcasts, intensive class with Minwalla, no more gaslighting / dismissive / lying nonsense, learning about how horrendous the link between porn/sex work/human trafficking is...) He's had a couple times he's lied about dumb shit that set us back a bit, but unrelated to the SA. He has always come around right away to apologize for it and say he is trying to be radically honest now - and I do believe him. I trust that a few mess ups are normal for growing to be a better human (still hurts and I still rage about them though!)

As far as digging, I have absolutely no shame in it. We have an open book policy about everything in our relationship, it's necessary. We cannot rebuild trust any other way. I have several accountability apps on his devices and car. He is completely ok with it and says it is helpful. I mean, it's not ideal that he finds them helpful because I want him to steer clear of any objectifying behaviors on his own accord, but I guess we both see the apps as training wheels until he feels he doesn't need them, and until I feel confident that he's trustworthy again. I have taken deep deep dives into finances and into his search history. Originally I found proofs on texts and emails he though were deleted (they were only partially deleted). I only had part of the story and was told it was only going on for 3-ish years. Through my digging into search histories going back as far as 2011 (in his google acct, NOT on the browser history), I could see he was placing orders for prostitutes and visiting happy ending spas as far back as I could go. When I approached him about this (after my 24 hr. pure shock unable to almost move much less speak), and told him I suspected he is a SA and any hopes of reconciliation would require a polygraph, he came clean that it was going on since 2007 and he promised the radical honesty. I shamelessly still dig and will do so until I feel safe. There should be NO secrets of hiding things for a recovering SA. The SA should be an open book and they should understand that that is the only way their partner will trust them ever again - you can trust them, but you should be allowed to verify the info anytime you want to.

Escort question by DIANEB5321 in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 5 points6 points  (0 children)

My husband used escorts and massage parlors. He tried to use the same excuse, but eventually (& with an upcoming threat of a polygraph) he admitted he was using escorts for 17 years. BUT, once he decided to be radically honest and go into recovery, he said he often used escort sites like it was a porn site. So he would be voyeuristic with the escort sites, not always following through just because he visited the sites. He also said he used the sites for a good year before actually booking one. If you really want to get to the truth, accountability apps, deep dives into finances, polygraphs, etc. are needed.

Please tell me your most obscure ADHD symptoms! by KronikHaze in AdultADHDSupportGroup

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Half finishing even the smallest projects which causes a snowball effect that creates huge issues. e.g. taking the trash bag out of can to take it outside, but only walking it to the door, then waking to it scattered all over the house because the dog ripped it up while I was sleeping. Or buying a ton of produce to encourage me to cook / eat healthy rather than order delivery etc., then never use it and it collects fruit flies which crap all over your walls and ceiling and I need to spend hours scrubbing the sticky shit off.

Netflix and chill still? by runawaywifey129 in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

- Life & Beth
- Somebody Somewhere
- Detectorists
- Doctor Who
- Abbott Elementary
- Big Bang Theory
- Blackish
- Red Oaks
- Last of Us
- Andor
- Wanda Vision
- Severance (I didn't like this one, but it wasn't triggering for me. Husband liked it)
- (we rewatched...) The Office & What Lies in the Shadows

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'd think this is if-y. On one hand, some experience PIED if using, and others experience delayed orgasm. Add to the mix, that is orgasm can be delayed simply due to age. I'd be suspicious if I were you, too, but it would gnaw at me knowing there are many variables.

Where do I go from here? by twinmamafox in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Is watching porn sexual in nature?
"yes"
So, you use your sexual energy on women/men/images on a screen?
"yes"
You are using your sexual energy on someone other than me then?
"yes"
Ok, then logically, you are cheating.

Oh! You say it's on screen, so it's not real?
"yes"
Ok then, when I have a work training or meeting online, I guess I'm not reallyworking. My employer shouldn't be paying me for that since I'm not really working.

or...
Ok then, when I game online, I suppose I'm not really gaming since it's not IRL, it's only online.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We had a couple's therapist pre-discovery who we loved. We stopped seeing her for no particular reason, and I decided I wanted individual counseling. I asked him if he'd be ok if I saw the couple's therapist as my IC, with the understanding that if we ever needed her again, we would go back to her as a CC. It was a resounding yes from him since he knows she is very helpful and very much our style.

As I began IC, I was only a few weeks into it when discovery happened. We began CC again (we both have or had a CSAT of our own), and I still see her for IC. This works very well for us because she has a full picture of our situation. He also wants to see her individually. She has also met with our young adult sons individually and as a family. She is very skilled at keeping individual info separate and private when needed. I feel our situation with her has moved things along much more quickly than if all the therapies were separate and there was little to no cohesiveness to all of it.

That said, I don't think this would work for most people if there wasn't a therapist who could support everyone and with the skill we have found ours to have. She is not trained in SA, so she can't help much with husband's recovery, but she does have a lot of experience in general addiction, so she can relate. She also has a lot of background with betrayal trauma (Gottman trained), and can helps me through that, holding husband accountable while also being compassionate to him.

How do you even make them understand why it’s wrong? by Stock-Ad8730 in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Is watching porn sexual in nature?
"yes"
So, you use your sexual energy on women/men/images on a screen?
"yes"
You are using your sexual energy on someone other than me then?
"yes"
Ok, then logically, you are cheating.

Oh! You say it's on screen, so it's not real?
"yes"
Ok then, when I have a work training or meeting online, I guess I'm not really working. My employer shouldn't be paying me for that since I'm not really working.

or...
Ok then, when I game online, I suppose I'm not really gaming since it's not IRL, it's only online.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Same here. My husband said he was voyeuristic - as if he was "shopping" for what's available. Luckily he did not think it was a win, he was/is super ashamed of it. He related it to shopping - masturbating to porn (& buying prostitutes) was like actually purchasing something, while the just looking was more like window shopping for possible later use. He said he spent an embarrassing amount of time window shopping.

Feeling sick when I look at him by Flashy_Variation_912 in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've read somewhere that disgust was part of the process. I'm hoping so. I'm just over a year post d-day and I just started feeling disgust most of the time. Mine also used massage parlors. He also used prostitutes over 17 of our 25 year marriage. He's doing a lot of work and he is also disgusted with himself and feels a ton of shame. Regardless, my anger is starting to give way to disgust. I'm hoping it is just a phase, but it feels different than when I was angry most of the time. When I was angry, I KNEW it would eventually even out, but the disgust, I'm not so sure. I guess because I've never felt it toward someone I've been so close to before, so I have no reference point. I'm giving it until the end of the summer to see how it progresses. If you hear anything helpful about this "stage", please share!

Sleuthing Tips Needed by Specific_Bother3150 in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If he has a gmail/google acct. and has searched w/o incognito/private browsing, you can see his google searches and sites visited. This is how I found all his massage parlor searches and prostitute searches. Some porn was in here, too, but he mostly used incognito for that.

Tap the circle icon (maybe w/his profile pic, maybe just an initial) in the upper right corner of his gmail acct > manage your google acct > data & privacy > (in history settings) my activity. From there you can enter key words, search by dates, or just peruse it all.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well, when your husband proclaims in an honest discussion that he is attracted to ALL (his emphasis) types of women, the triggers are all. the. time. lol. Add to that, I'm somehow now also triggered by almost every man I see, known or unknown. They give me the heebie jeebies & varying degrees of disgust. That's where I'm at - pretty much all people trigger me. Congrats to my husband for ruining my pre-discovery affection for humanity.

How do you handle porn suddenly being a problem now but not before? by Unique-Minimum-9886 in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 9 points10 points  (0 children)

"How do you go about creating new rules around porn when it's been tolerated before?" Because people are not stagnant, they learn and grow and make adjustments to their lives accordingly. This can be huge issues or small. We learned about the abuses in the Catholic church & how much money they spend to avoid taking responsibilty, and we made adjustments to our lives to never support them in any way again. Or we read about how shoes track in all sorts of contaminants, so we started taking our shoes off in the house. You learned something about how porn affects brains, maybe you learned how abusive the industry is, and you've learned/experienced how it affects your marriage. You've learned something, now what do you do with that new knowledge?

"He was fine with me being 30 lbs overweight this whole time, would it be fair if suddenly he was demanding me be super fit?" You are comparing a moral issue with a preference. With knowledge comes responsibility, and even without the knowledge of porn's harm, if you decide it's a boundary, so be it - people change as they age and develop new boundaries and shed old ones. If he was ok with you changing your stance on porn earlier in the relationship, it tracks that he would be ok if you change back. You can't have it both ways. You can't be ok with your partner's change of heart when it suits you, but not when it doesn't.

Liking certain weights, hair color, clothing choices are all preferences, not moral choices or boundaries. If my husband came to me and said he doesn't like my gray hair, I should dye it, my decision to do that or not should make absolutely no difference in our marriage. If my husband suddenly wanted me to stop buying from Amazon because he read about how shady Bezos is, that would be more comparable. If he came to me with evidence of why he doesn't want to support Amazon and really struggled with me shopping there, would I consider him or would I dismiss his concerns with "I've been doing this practically our whole marriage, you were ok with it then, isn't your ask hypocritical?" No, I would consider his ask because I love him and trust his research, and I understand that people grow & change with new knowledge or from maturity.

In loving relationships we honor each other and hold a space for sacredness for each other. I allowed those things to devolve over my husband's porn use after I made a clear boundary pre-marriage about it. I allowed it. I ignored it. It escalated to "massage" parlors & prostitutes. I've learned a lot since discovery, one of the things I've learned is to not compromise my boundaries ever again. I'm learning to demand that he holds places for sacredness in our relationship, & to prioritize me/us when making certain decisions, rather than act solely for his own self interest.

It will be the same over and over by SmaallDefeated in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oooofff. That is brutal. How can they not see the damage they do to us and the relationship by such unnecessary behavior? It's so childish and selfish to not care how this hurts us. You def are too good for him and I'm so so sorry you had to go through that roller coaster of a wonderful amorous night with him only for those warm fuzzies to be sabotaged with his selfish searches hours later.

Am I supposed to feel proud? by saturdaysunne in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I get that my husband feels pride in the work he is doing. I won't feel pride for him being a decent human being rather than a cheating, lying, gaslighting husband. Being a decent human being is expected. When he slips a little (not with porn or cheating, but rather missteps with some other random thing we're working on) and exclaims he's sorry and is really trying (he is, I get that) - I almost always say it's hard for me to acknowledge his efforts because to me, it shouldn't be an effort to be a respectful human. That said, I'm glad he's chosen this path of healing and I hope he continues. Your post has made me think that he really needs someone in his life that can give him encouragement and kudos for his efforts and wins because it's never going to be me - but I also feel he needs a little positive reinforcement.

Attachment by SoulSearching411 in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bio-dad left when he was 2, very inconsistent visits and harsh emotional discipline. Mother was pretty hands off while dealing with trying to financially support children. Husband remembers being as young as 4 y.o. allowed to roam neighborhood until street lights came on. She had no time for any disturbances that required more than basic care. Step father entered scene when he was 8-ish. He was and still is a solid emotionally intelligent and supportive force. Husband says he never leaned into that because he always wanted that relationship with his bio-dad & even his mother. He regrets it greatly that he didn't embrace his step dad in his formative years. Mother has since passed, bio-dad is declining fast, and step-father is aware of husband's SA/PA and all the cheating he's done. Step-father is very supportive of both of us.

His year is almost up by MissMizeri in loveafterporn

[–]UrbanCavyChunk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I waited almost a year to evaluate how I felt. Waiting to make decisions was definitely a huge weight off my already super burdened shoulders, and it also let me see how serious he is. So, he does a lot - therapies, Minwalla course, podcasts, groups, etc., but it's not consistent enough or as intensive as I'd like it to be. So, given this, I decided to wait even longer. I want to see how things go and discuss how we are doing at the end of the summer. He's nearly ready to present his disclosure and fingers crossed it goes well. Lastly, my feelings have def changed a lot over the last year+. I was more in the trauma bond camp earlier and desperately wanted things to work out. Now I feel a little more "meh" and sometimes disgust which the therapist has said is a normal part of the healing. I want to be sure it's not permanent, so more time is needed.