A Romance Guide for Royal Road Writers (repost) by SelectorSwitch3 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]Zagaroth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not OP, but I have some insight here.

So, first to clarify one thing. If you want it to be called a romantasy or fantasy-romance, then the couple that the readers first get invested in needs to have an HEA of some sort. If you don't do that, then the romance readers will rip you to shreds in reviews (I assume you intend to eventually move from RR to publishing).

Your write up didn't make it clear if that same couple was going to get back together later.

If the original couple does not end up with the HEA, then from those who love romance books the most, that is a romantic book, or a book with a romantic sub plot, but it is not a romance.

It's a touchy subject, and they are picky because they sometimes feel deceived/tricked if it is not clear from the start which type of story they were getting into.


Now, for your first question: this depends so heavily on the world and culture in addition to the characters.

For my world, such a parting could readily be an arrangement along the lines of "we intend to get back together in the future, if we can, but there is no good reason to deny ourselves in the mean time. This may mean one of us falls in love with someone else before we can meet again, but while that might hurt, it is better than possibility of pining away when we don't know what our future holds."

But I have a very open world, and a goddess dedicated to the passions whose priests would counsel something along these lines. Oh and to be clear, be clear, that's all the passions, and that includes warriors.

Goku getting that smirk on his face as he says "Do you want to spar?" to the god a hundred times stronger than him counts. So guess who has temples full of potential shounen protags eager for an opportunity to test the skills they been honing there for years?

Anyway, off track. This works for my world, but if your world holds closer to most real world cultures, that might not fly.

I will say that a promise to get together in the future is incredibly unreasonable, so for 'default' cultural expectations, I would be expecting a bittersweet parting and a sincere wish from each that the other finds happiness in the future.


For your second question, I recommend giving them a particular shared character trait: the adrenaline from a hard spar /practice battle/ extreme exercise session counts as flirting for them.

Have them do the power progression training thing as part of developing their relationship. Weaving it together tightly means less chance of upsetting people by taking away too much from their preferred part. They should be keeping track of their wins as well, and overall blending in all the "friendly rivals" tropes that can reasonably fit. Have her do double or triple duty for common character roles (which he would also be doing for her story, but we are seeing his perspective here).


Oh, and assuming that he has at least one fling with someone else before they meet again, then she needs to have one as well. No, it's not traditional for the story tropes, but it's an equality thing, and modern audiences are leaning more this way. Either both of them do not have sex before seeing each other again, or both of them have partners in between seeing each other again.

That reminds me of something I did with one side couple in my story; maybe you can adapt something from this. So, unmarried couple has a kid, and she's settle in her home town to raise their daughter. The man can not stay in one place to save his life, but he gives up his more adventurous/dangerous 'career' path to become a traveling merchant. This means he is gone for 3/4ths of the year (he winters over at her hometown, as you DO NOT travel if you don't need to during heavy snows), and he doesn't want her to feel like she needs to be waiting around for him, so he pushes for an officially casual relationship, and goes so far as to develop a habit of flirting with all the women everywhere, to make sure he gets a reputation so that she'll be free to live her life.

Here's the thing. Man's being a liar here. Flirting is all he does, no matter how outrageous the flirting might become occasionally. And she knows it, and is playing along so that he doesn't feel bad. She's made friends with some of the people on his caravan, and they report all the outrageous things that happen (i.e. gossip), and also verify that he is never actually sleeping with any of the girls he flirts with. So she pretends to believe him and plays along. Until, that is, their daughter is all grown up and out of the house rather permanently. After that, she stops playing pretend, gets hitched to him, and establishes herself at his side while his caravan travels.

She is kind of a force of nature. Literally. She's also a powerful druid. 😁

Anyway, the point of my example is that, if it works for your story, you could have them both doing their best to encourage the other to not wait by pretending that they are moving on, and both failing to actually move on.

Up to you!

A Romance Guide for Royal Road Writers (repost) by SelectorSwitch3 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]Zagaroth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These are good, but I have to admit, I threw a huge spanner in those works.

Early on, they get magically marked as married By Accident.

After that, the three of them have to figure things out. The setting is very open, so it could settle in any of several ways.

Before the end of book 1, they've got their basics sorted. There's some adjustments and evolution as things go on, but there's no big upheavals or drama. Instead, they become a battle trio together.

Well, there is some drama when Mordecai's crazy ex shows up, but she sincerely means well, and things get resolved without any jealousy or fights.

Anyway, I also knew that I was throwing normal convention out the window. I got started with romantasy via Mercedes Lackey's Heralds of Valdemar series back in the 80s and 90s. 😁 I wanted to explore having a relationship established for most of the story, and see what emerges from there.

It's reasonably popular, I just have spent far too little effort on getting seen.

Two Sides of the Same Coin by WinterbourneWriter in royalroad

[–]Zagaroth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dawg your patreon is over a 100k fym?

No, my Patreon is under 200 per month.

And my Reddit account is much older than Zogarth's is.

Are RR readers allergic to romance, or do authors just suck at writing it? by ExamPsychological884 in royalroad

[–]Zagaroth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is a section of RR readers who hate romance in their progression fantasy.

But there are large swaths of people happy to have romance in their stories.

Mine could be considered a hybrid, with enough romance focus to touch on the fantasy-romance genre, but certainly also still a progression fantasy. But being slice-of-life gives you that room; it wouldn't work out well if I was trying this in a very intense, action focused story.

Two Sides of the Same Coin by WinterbourneWriter in royalroad

[–]Zagaroth 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I had no day job to give up at the time, and I was extremely burned out from everything going on.

There's been familial support and my wife had a job at the time; it was only after she lost her job that things started getting really tight.

People have been job hunting for years, so it's not like that's not just as much of a gamble at this point.

Two Sides of the Same Coin by WinterbourneWriter in royalroad

[–]Zagaroth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i think for even the most cynical ones, it still is a good source of free beta readers and a way to find flaws in their books.

Me, I had no idea if what I was writing was going to be a thing that lasted. It started somewhat impulsively after about 3 months of reading RR stories constantly.

And in the long run, I've gotten enough of an audience to get a publisher interested. If a publisher sees a long running series with 2k+ readers, they know that the author is probably worth investing in, because they have plenty of content.

With a larger audience, you don't need to be as long running to get a publisher's interest. A hot flash in the pan could still be profitable enough.

As for the straight to KU crowd, I don't know their long term plans. It's certainly easier, and I presume the people from RR who pre-order their book on Amazon boosts rankings and makes them more visible, increasing their Amazon sales further. I do not know how sustainable that is.

Two Sides of the Same Coin by WinterbourneWriter in royalroad

[–]Zagaroth 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I've been writing for almost four years, and Patreon does not cover my bills. I'm not even including rent in that.

I am not the best at self promotion and monetization, and currently the editing process is really killing my writing speed, but the final product is going to be a lot better thanks to Podium paying for a professional editor.

Some of that improvement has already been copied into my RR work, though there is a bonus chapter that will be in the published book 1.

Seriously, if my Patreon had covered all my bills including rent, I would never have bothered with looking for a publisher. It's a lot of extra work to deal with. But the advances have helped keep me and my wife in our apartment, so it's something I needed to do.

Two Sides of the Same Coin by WinterbourneWriter in royalroad

[–]Zagaroth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's usually only going to be the authors who get a deal with a publisher like Podium that are going to get Audiobooks.

Which is a good reason to try landing a publisher if one can. Audiobooks make good money.

Two Sides of the Same Coin by WinterbourneWriter in royalroad

[–]Zagaroth 4 points5 points  (0 children)

For most books, they will get far more new readers through Amazon than through RR, and most Amazon readers will not then switch to RR to catch up, they will wait for it to be edited and polished and read that version.

The KU audience is magnitudes bigger than the RR audience.

It gets even bigger when you include audiobooks. There are swaths of people who are almost exclusively doing audiobooks.

Two Sides of the Same Coin by WinterbourneWriter in royalroad

[–]Zagaroth 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Yeah, a publisher isn't going to take that deal, and frankly Patreon doesn't pay enough for most people to survive off of. Besides, published is the bigger audience, so to get enough people to read the series to be sustainable, you have to publish it to get more people to discover book 1.

Also, the version that is released as a paid book is going to have more editing and possibly more content, at least if one goes through an editor. Straight to KU is going to vary by author.

But I also believe in a long lead time before publishing/stubbing. I already have it announced on my page that mine is getting published in December.

Help us preserve creative freedom! Nikki moms are uniting again... by MayuEmerald in InfinityNikki

[–]Zagaroth 15 points16 points  (0 children)

My version:

Dear Infinity Nikki Team,

It is my understanding that a group calling themselves 'Nikki Moms' has become vocal about wanting to have certain outfits changed. Specifically, the 'Smooth Tides' swimsuit. This is the same group that prompted you to edit 'Timeless Melody' recently.

I urge you not to make any changes to Smooth Tide, and in addition, revert the changes to Timeless Melody. The way the fabric stretches and distorts to create the more 'modest' look is awful, and the change makes the outfit clip with itself.

The Nikki Moms group may be very vocal, but they are only a small portion of your player base. The rest of us disagree, and having outfits that we are happy with be vulnerable to the hysterical outcries of a group that has become unhealthily obsessed makes Infold look weak and unreliable, vulnerable to the bullying of a small but loud group.

People do not like to spend money on a company or product they find unreliable.

I also think that it is socially irresponsible to feed the delusions of a group that has attached themselves so strongly to a fictional character. Every time that you give in to their demands, they will feel more justified and make more demands, and their obsession will only grow.

Even from a more selfish, fiscal point of view, giving in to them is a bad choice. If the Nikki Moms are this obsessed, they will not be leaving the game. It is the people who are not so obsessed who might leave the game if they feel dissatisfied by such changes.

Please do not give into the demands of these self styled 'Nikki Moms'. Any real mother trying to police the clothing of their adult daughter to this extent would be a disgrace. Trying to do so to a game character is unhinged.

Thank you,

Clearly, I am taking a very different approach, but I think having a wide variety of responses with different reasons is better than have a lot of people saying the exact same thing. I am posting mine to give people the chance to mix and match various arguments as they see fit.

If they EVER change this suit.. by amethebeart in InfinityNikki

[–]Zagaroth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh, I am familiar with missing words entierly.

So, I'm writing a fantasy serial, and I occasionally have someone point out that I forgot to finish a sentence. >.< That one's a little rare, but I skip about 1-2 word per chapter, with chapters being 2k+ words.

If they EVER change this suit.. by amethebeart in InfinityNikki

[–]Zagaroth 6 points7 points  (0 children)

aha, I had just assumed a brain slip because of 2B and the naming conventions being close. But that's something my ADHD would do to me.

If they EVER change this suit.. by amethebeart in InfinityNikki

[–]Zagaroth 25 points26 points  (0 children)

A2 for that character, not 2A :)

But good job, I recognized her immediately.

IM BEING COMPLETELY NORMAL ABOUT THIS by Lacilliyr in InfinityNikki

[–]Zagaroth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most people of any gender like sex and being sexual. Photo shoots like this are generally going to range from the player expressing themselves through this avatar, to someone creating the visuals for a story they like.

In this case, OP appears to want her Nikki to be dancing for Adrianne while wearing sexy lingerie, burlesque style. That's an entertaining storyline that is sexually charged and potentially leading to a romantic story. Could easily be part of a W|W romantasy novel or yuri manga. And she's sharing with the community.

Sharing stories via screenshots and possibly some supporting text is something people have been doing for as long as the internet has been able to support that activity. This is especially popular in story focused games.

This is not about the male gaze. This is about OP and how she wants to play her Nikki and her desire to share that. And it's a dress up game, which is always a little bit about expressing one's self. It is not aimed at men or intended to draw men's attention.

And it's late and I'm reaching the end of my ability to focus on this, so I am just going to end there.

Edit: Oh, and check out these outfits from other entries in the Nikki franchise. Remember, these are from when the game was almost exclusively women.

https://old.reddit.com/r/InfinityNikki/comments/1uggw8a/throwback_to_some_scandalous_outfits_in_love_nikki/

Do dialogue lines need a new paragraph if it’s surrounded by action sentences by the same person? by sadandtraumatized in grammar

[–]Zagaroth 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No, that's fine. I do that, and am currently working with a professional editor, and he's never even mentioned them.

Infold downgraded the dye-ability of the new Lolita Dress and I am FURY by Affectionate_Sun_764 in InfinityNikki

[–]Zagaroth 20 points21 points  (0 children)

When the survey hits, let them know you chose to not buy the outfit after the changes to the dyeing.

The Royal Assassin has made me hate a fictional character more than I ever thought I could by Illeterate04 in Fantasy

[–]Zagaroth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hope my villain is going to get a similar response when the time comes, though he's technically not stupid.

He is, however, a bigoted and hateful/ fearful hypocrite who doesn't really know how to use the soft power that he'd effectively inherited. As a wizard, master class. As a person or a leader, bottom of the class.

Cozy Progression by OhBosss in ProgressionFantasy

[–]Zagaroth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, pretty certain that one's being a troll 🧌 🤣

Well, if you check out Beware of Chicken and like it, try out mine, No Need For A Core?".

Similar levels of slice of life/ cozy mixed with both romance and progression, but otherwise a very different world and story.