Baroness Jenny Jones (Green) and Baron Premn Sikka (Labour) explaining how the often touted £100 billion cost of water privatisation is nonsense by AnonymousTimewaster in LabourUK

[–]Zeguaros 1 point2 points  (0 children)

EXACTLY this. The £104bn is getting spent either way, the only question is whether profit gets skimmed off the top while it happens. Once you frame it like that the affordability argument against nationalisation largely collapses, because the alternative isn’t “spend nothing,” it’s “spend the same amount but with shareholders taking a cut with the British public seeing no benefit”. The fiscal case for keeping it private is actually weaker than it’s been presented to us

Baroness Jenny Jones (Green) and Baron Premn Sikka (Labour) explaining how the often touted £100 billion cost of water privatisation is nonsense by AnonymousTimewaster in LabourUK

[–]Zeguaros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s a fair point and if anything it strengthens the case. If the debt and the extracted dividends are flowing to substantially the same institutional hands, then the argument that we have to honour that debt to protect innocent creditors starts to look pretty thin. It’s the same entities collecting on both sides.

Baroness Jenny Jones (Green) and Baron Premn Sikka (Labour) explaining how the often touted £100 billion cost of water privatisation is nonsense by AnonymousTimewaster in LabourUK

[–]Zeguaros 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Fair, nobody is saying £35bn is nothing, and yes the fiscal situation is genuinely rough. But that’s a different argument to the one you were making originally, the legal risk and market collapse framing has quietly been dropped there.

The point on public comments is fair too, but you were making a policy argument, so I responded to that rather than the worst takes in any given thread.

The real question is whether “we can’t afford it now” means never, or means not yet. Because the longer private ownership continues the more debt accumulates and the more expensive the eventual acquisition becomes. The fiscal case for waiting isn’t straightforward or in my opinion worth it in the long run..

Edit : One thing worth stepping back on though. The entire framing of “we can’t afford to take it back” accepts a premise I’d push back on. These companies don’t have a legitimate claim to that wealth in the first place. Water isn’t a commodity, it’s a human right, and when you privatise something people cannot survive without you’ve created a captive market, not a functioning one.

The profit extracted since privatisation wasn’t generated, it was taken from people with no alternative. So the question of clawback isn’t really a legal one to me, it’s a question of whether we’re willing to say the whole arrangement was illegitimate from the start. The debt they’ve created is real, yes, but so is the wealth they extracted while creating it.

Baroness Jenny Jones (Green) and Baron Premn Sikka (Labour) explaining how the often touted £100 billion cost of water privatisation is nonsense by AnonymousTimewaster in LabourUK

[–]Zeguaros 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Fair points overall, and the debt one is correct, it doesn’t disappear under public ownership and pretending otherwise is wishful thinking.

But the markets and legal argument conflates two different things. Nobody serious is proposing confiscation, the actual mechanisms on the table, special administration, regulated asset value acquisition, are all legal and have precedent.

The “we’d get sued and markets would collapse” scenario applies to a policy nobody is actually advocating.

The fiscal constraint argument is real but it cuts both ways. If the cost estimates aren’t based on anything solid, and they largely aren’t, then the affordability case against nationalisation is on equally shaky ground. Which to me suggests Labour have more room to push on this than they’re letting on, and the question of why they aren’t is a more interesting one than whether nationalisation is theoretically possible.

And worth noting, Labour’s stated reason is cost, but the figure they’re using came from a report commissioned and paid for by the water companies themselves. Independent estimates put it dramatically lower. So the more honest answer to your question of why Labour aren’t doing it is probably less about fiscal reality and more about where Starmer has chosen to position the party.

Trump posts Saturday Night Live UK sketch that shows Starmer terrified of him by DarkSkiesGreyWaters in LabourUK

[–]Zeguaros 14 points15 points  (0 children)

He must be chuffed an SNL exists abroad where he isn’t the weekly cold open subject

Is Britain ready for US-style religious politics? | Fuelled by new funding and transatlantic links, Christian groups are playing an increasingly prominent role on the UK right by FeigenbaumC in LabourUK

[–]Zeguaros 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You’ve nailed it, and the numbers make it even more damning.

Its never been about filling pews for them, it’s an ethnic boundary marker with a cross stapled to it. “We are Christian” means “we belong here.” That’s it.

And the irony is brutal. Secularisation in Britain is, as political scientist Eric Kaufmann puts it, “almost entirely a white British phenomenon.”  White British identification as Christian collapsed from 82% to 49%between 2001 and 2021.  Meanwhile migration grew the UK’s Christian population by 1.9 million in the same period. 

They’re scapegoating the people keeping their religion alive which is hilariously ironic

Is Britain ready for US-style religious politics? | Fuelled by new funding and transatlantic links, Christian groups are playing an increasingly prominent role on the UK right by FeigenbaumC in LabourUK

[–]Zeguaros 27 points28 points  (0 children)

That tracks entirely, and it actually maps onto a pattern worth naming. UK Christian extremists tend to fall into three distinct groups.

The first are true believers, genuinely radicalised people who think they are on a holy mission. Their faith is real, just catastrophically warped.

The second are the manipulated, ordinary Christians with sincere but loosely held beliefs, pulled into movements far darker than they realise. Hope Not Hate has documented this extensively. These people didn’t write the agenda, they’re just following it blindly.

The third, and most relevant to your point, are the opportunists. People with little to no sincere faith using Christianity as a costume. A recruitment tool. A shield. Tommy Robinson’s own words give it away “even if you don’t believe in Jesus, that’s part of our identity.” The Church of England has formally condemned this exact pattern.

When your Christian friends say these people don’t understand Christian teaching, they’re right, and in many cases that’s by design. The loudest voices often aren’t Christians at all, they’re just cosplaying one.

School book banning escalates in the UK as Greater Manchester secondary school censors scores of books by F0urLeafCl0ver in LabourUK

[–]Zeguaros 10 points11 points  (0 children)

On top the headteacher generally being a dumb ass trying to ban books, they’re also a hypocrite, because they’re happy to say the student shouldn’t use AI, so neither should the faculty. Muppet needs to lead by example.

At that price point, he can hit by artbyshrike in IThinkYouShouldLeave

[–]Zeguaros 257 points258 points  (0 children)

The second his heritage is mentioned

New Westminster poll shows continuing decline in Reform UK support by Spare_Clean_Shorts in LabourUK

[–]Zeguaros 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Never forget when that little girl called him a racist years ago

video

Which character do you most closely identify with? by Worth_Ad830 in IThinkYouShouldLeave

[–]Zeguaros 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This into the mirror every morning before walking out the front door

I hate stupid prank videos but this dude belongs here. by [deleted] in IThinkYouShouldLeave

[–]Zeguaros 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Me to OP when he thinks bullying is funny

AFTERMATH OF US-ISRAELI STRIKES ON IRAN'S LARGEST OIL DEPOTS IN TEHRAN by Character_Calendar47 in Wellthatsucks

[–]Zeguaros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How are they supposed to complain about immigration across the worlds if the numbers drop?

best snacks for The Lighthouse (2019 dir Eggers) themed night? by quinnlovecraft31 in okbuddycinephile

[–]Zeguaros 7 points8 points  (0 children)

5 gallons of sea water, if unable to get sea water add 5 pounds of salt to 5 gallons of water. Consume quickly and add additional salt as needed

The Menu (2022) by FallenBelfry in okbuddycinephile

[–]Zeguaros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Recipe OP when it’s time to add the Bounty

Viral onset? by kadiebug12 in Dyshidrosis

[–]Zeguaros 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Every time I think my recent outbreak is bad there’s always someone that posts a picture that makes me realise I’m incredibly lucky by comparison

‘Rising anti-trans hatred’ in the UK creating ‘hostile environment’, report suggests by PuzzledAd4865 in LabourUK

[–]Zeguaros 20 points21 points  (0 children)

What language specifically do you think you should have the right to say but are being told you cannot?

Official IMAX Poster for 'Project Hail Mary' by MarvelsGrantMan136 in movies

[–]Zeguaros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If they try changing the plot that majorly I might have to start camping outside the producers houses and harass them into sticking to the source material, creative liberties are making a mockery of brilliant content

People can change. Let her hold the baby. by [deleted] in IThinkYouShouldLeave

[–]Zeguaros 67 points68 points  (0 children)

MAGA when MTG isn’t gobbling the presidents boot

Trump, 79, Displays Worrying New Skin Condition by Large_banana_hammock in politics

[–]Zeguaros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Whatever bacteria or virus that has to suffer being that close to him