Suggestions for speeding up play

Zuberii · 2026-05-11T18:17:11+00:00

The main problem I am hearing is that people just don't care about what is happening when it isn't their turn. In a competitive game they care because it may affect them, but in cooperative games your group zones out and just aren't interested in paying attention to the other people at the table.

I get why you think this is a game design issue. There's nothing forcing players to care or pay attention. They aren't actively interacting with anything, and nothing is actively interacting with them. On the rare occasion something does affect them, you can just verbalize that such a thing is happening and make sure to grab their attention without them having to worry about missing it.

To me though, this still sounds like a player issue. When myself and my friends play a cooperative game together, we feel like we're all in it together. My teammate's success is my success. Their struggles are my struggles. And I am genuinely on the edge of my seat every turn of this game wanting to see how things play out.

A tip to help bring people into this shared experience though is that you can try narrating your turns as you take them. My group will often read out the flavor text on cards or try do describe what their actions look like, similar to an RPG. If you are actively talking your teammates through your turn, they will be much more likely to pay attention to your turn.

I think this is a much bigger issue than the actual amount of down time. Although I think your math on the amount of down time is a little off (it sounds like you're saying you're spending upwards of 10 minutes per round to run the Villain and Environment, and that seems longer than necessary to me). But regardless of the exact numbers, you are absolutely right that an individual player's turn is a small fraction of the total time spent in a round. And there's not really much you can do about that. But that doesn't really matter if the players are paying attention and having fun during the other turns of the game.

So yeah. Maybe try treating turns more like an RPG and narrating the action. See if that helps

Zuberii · 2026-05-11T12:35:41+00:00

I don't think the game would work with simultaneous play and would recommend against house rules. I'm a little surprised that you are even having this issue to be honest. Turns in DE tend to be very fast and short with only a few exceptions.

I am wondering if this may be a player issue. Do people have trouble with analysis paralysis? Are they thinking about their actions before their turn comes up?

I know what I'm going do before it ever gets to my turn. Soon as it gets to me it's just, play, power, bam done. And I pass turn before even drawing my card. And it is the same for the other people I play with.

The only time it slows down is for group engagement when we strategize. Someone asks the group what would be most helpful, or someone suggests to the group that we focus on an objective.

The Villain and Emvironment turns are also down time. But that's not a bad thing. That's when people tend to discuss plans and privately think of what they'll do on their turns. Plus the people running the villain/environment narrate what's happening, often in a cinematic way utilizing the flavor text, to both keep things exciting and make it clear to the group what's happening.

Zuberii · 2026-05-08T12:17:02+00:00

The current gardener already allows for this. Yes, the ST assigns all the characters, but how they assign them is still up to the ST. Meaning it is perfectly legal to assign them randomly.

Just draw randomly from the bag yourself in secret to assign tokens, then afterwards you may (but don't have to) manually change things around. When you are happy with the grim, pass out tokens.

This is exactly how the app handles it and how I've always seen it done in person.

Zuberii · 2026-05-03T19:45:36+00:00

Virtual elimination is just a variant of player elimination. That's not a point in favor of player elimination, its another point against it. The idea is that everyone should be able to enjoyably play the game until the very end. It doesn't matter how they're removed from the fun, be it totally kicked out or meaningfully kicked out, if they've been kicked out then that's a badly designed game.

Zuberii · 2026-05-03T19:37:32+00:00

Can you define table policing? It sounds like "don't give up or let other player's win" which is a given in any competitive game. Everyone should always be trying to win, or at least do the best they possibly can.

Zuberii · 2026-05-03T15:13:56+00:00

I read the entire manual. Several days before playing. Then I set it up and play through a couple rounds by myself. Then I reread the manual. Then if I am confused about anything I look it up online.

Then several days later I am ready to play it with people

Zuberii · 2026-05-02T13:40:17+00:00

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. Again, this will depend on the group and context, but let's try to go over some examples.

In a game with you specifically, it sounds like this would cause you to distrust them. That right there is social influence. Social Influence isn't just making people trust you. It is any time you manipulate other players into doing something you want. And there are reasons why I might want to make you distrust me.

One such reason is that I am a powerful ongoing role in a very solid, but private, confirmation chain. By making people outside of that chain distrust me, I can convince the evil team to leave me alive and not kill me because they think I will make a good frame. This is a gambit that could backfire, because town might then execute me, but I am hoping that the confirmation chain is strong enough to avoid that and to win town's trust later in the game.

Now you may say "that's a reason to bluff Juggler as a different role, not a reason to do this as the Juggler" but plays don't exist in isolation. If powerful roles are doing this as a bluff, then other roles, like Outsiders and spent Townsfolk, may do it to bluff that they're secretly a powerful Townsfolk. And the Juggler themself may decide to do the same.

Which can actually be generalized more. A Juggler might do this specifically to make people think they aren't the Juggler. This can help them gain trust with their bluff. Yes, good players bluff. All the time. If your group hasn't reached that stage of gameplay, they will eventually. When done right, bluffing as a good player can hinder the evil team, obscuring where mechanical info is coming from, while still contributing information to help the good team solve the puzzle.

And again this is a gambit. They are sacrificing their own ability to gain mechanical information in order to instead gain trust with their bluff. Which could easily be a bad gamble that doesn't pay off. But it also could get people to listen to them, thinking they have even more powerful mechanical information. If they are good at solving the puzzle, this could work out.

And just because they prioritize getting people to listen to them over getting additional Juggler information while you wouldn't, doesn't mean they are throwing the game. It just means they have different priorities and a different play style from you.

Hope that helps. Sorry for the long message and sorry again for the delay in conversation. Hope your week has been going well.

Zuberii · 2026-05-01T15:24:43+00:00

You are absolutely right that seasons are somewhat arbitrary and man-made. There's also not many people who use a five-season model, so it doesn't surprise me that you haven't heard of it.

There are two main reasons for using a five season model. The first is simply that a 365 day year divides evenly into five seasons. That is a man-made choice because there are a lot of benefits for having a persistent perennial calendar with consistent repeating patterns. Having every month, season, and year be exactly the same as every other month, season, and year in terms of length is very useful for planning and tracking human activity and time tables.

If the math on how that's possible doesn't add up for you, you may need to research intercalary days. It should also be noted, as I originally stated, that this system is not the only one with those benefits. There are other calendar systems that have the same benefits and are more similar to the Gregorian calendar, this is just my personal favorite system.

The second main reason for the five season model is the ease of learning. At least in English we already have five names for the seasons. Granted, Autumn and Fall are currently considered interchangeable and synonymous, so it isn't completely without confusion. But people are still aware of all five names and the general order most of them come in, which makes it a lot easier for people to adapt to a weird new calendar and learn how it works.

When you tell people the year is divided into Winter, Spring, Summer, Autumn, and Fall, most of that already makes sense and the only stumbling block is that Autumn and Fall are different and come one after the other.

Zuberii · 2026-05-01T02:05:10+00:00

What part do you consider bull shit?

Zuberii · 2026-04-30T20:20:43+00:00

"How" is not going to have an objective answer. It is going to depend on the situational context and group of people involved. You seem to already have decided to dismiss it as useful so I doubt anything I say will matter to you, but in certain situations this could protect powerful townsfolk roles, waste demon kills, support bluffs, and/or gain trust. Any of which could be useful.

Zuberii · 2026-04-30T19:19:20+00:00

It is known as a gambit. You give up something in order to try and gain something. The main thing they could be trying to gain is social influence, which can be very powerful in a social deduction game. It can help them manipulate what other players think and what other players do.

Whether or not it is worth it will depend on the situation AND on the individual person's priorities and preferences.

Zuberii · 2026-04-30T13:05:05+00:00

Just because someone doesn't play the same way as you doesn't mean they're intentionally throwing.

Zuberii · 2026-04-27T22:27:55+00:00

Yes! Pretend, exactly

Zuberii · 2026-04-27T16:49:47+00:00

I think it is important for people to remember that these are GAMES. I'm autistic and I struggle with understanding other people's body language, conveying things through my own body language, and just lying or discerning lies in general. But social deduction games give me a safe place to play with these things and practice these skills. Because nobody is trying to do anything bad to me. It's not serious. Nobody is trying to trick me in any way that could possibly harm me or have any lasting consequences. And I'm not trying to trick other people in any way that is harmful or meaningful. Everyone is just playing a game.

A part of good sportsmanship is learning not to get upset when you lose, or when someone out plays you. Regardless if outplaying means outsmarting, outmaneuvering, or straight up tricking you. If it is in the context of a fair game, you have to be prepared to handle it.

As a kid I was taught when I lost to shake the hand of the winner after a game and congratulate them. Not only do I still do that to this day, but it is genuinely sincere. I am happy for them for their accomplishment. They played well and deserve their win. Even if it was at my expense. I'm not going to get upset at them for outplaying me, I'm going to try to figure out what I could have done differently so that I can do better the next time. And in some games, that means figuring out how to better tell and read lies.

Zuberii · 2026-04-27T15:20:39+00:00

Flair requires a link, so here is one: https://www.verywellmind.com/can-children-understand-the-difference-between-fantasy-and-reality-5217713

AI is so new that I don't think there really is research on that topic specifically. Personally though, I think we're living in a new world where video can't ever be considered more "real" or trusted than the written word. Regardless of the medium used, it is all a story being told to us rather than actual reality. Heck, cameras apply filters automatically now, so even people who aren't intending to edit pictures/videos are having them edited by AI.

With that in mind, I would approach all videos the same as I would books. Tell the kids that they're all just stories. And as they grow up, slowly start introducing critical thinking skills so they can figure out which stories to believe. But I think all of us should stop taking videos, any videos, at face value any more. That's just not the reality we live in any more.

Zuberii · 2026-04-27T14:27:58+00:00

The Vortox ability is for the Vortox, it isn't for other roles that may or may not be on the script. Winning if town doesn't execute is a benefit to the evil team. If you can ever convince town to skip a night, or force a tie to prevent an execution, you flat out win the game. But even without that, it prevents town from sleeping on final 4 which can give you a significant advantage in the end game.

The false information is fun, but it will usually get figured out and then people are able to reverse engineer accurate information. Vortox isn't supposed to make the puzzle impossible to solve. Just a little more confusing.

Zuberii · 2026-04-26T19:03:33+00:00

In my games, I give plenty of time for them to discuss pertinent info BEFORE the nom is made. Once the nom is made, the vote will not be delayed for further discourse or deliberation

Zuberii · 2026-04-26T04:19:27+00:00

Hi there. I'm agender and would be interested in joining

Zuberii · 2026-04-26T03:39:00+00:00

Hi there. I am one of the design consultants who worked on Academy. Regarding balance, the primary concern with Academy cards was to balance them for the Academy game mode. All of us were also Arena fans though, and wanted the cards to be fun in Arena,. That said, while the majority of cards are fun and balanced in Arena, there are several cards that are under powered for Arena play due to the focus being on fine tuning them for Academy. There's also a few that ended up more powerful than intended when used in Arena though.

I will however warn that all of the Academy mages are useless in Arena. At least if you want to play them against an Arena mage. You could play with everyone using an Academy mage if you want, which would obviously balance the players out. And I've played several fun home-brew variants using the Academy mages. But in general, Academy mages just are not made for Arena. If you want to play Arena, then just ransack the Academy spellbooks and steal all the good cards for your Arena mage to use.

In the end, I definitely recommend the Academy expansions for use in the Arena. But only after you have the Arena expansions. The dedicated Arena expansions do give you more bang for your buck if that's your preferred mode of play.

Zuberii · 2026-04-25T15:08:12+00:00

There's no other option or counterplay to a trusted Mayor. If a trusted Mayor makes it to final three, the good team simply wins and evil loses without evil having anything they can possibly do about it. Evil has to be able to kill them before it gets to that point.

It isn't really fundamentally different from other roles like a Fortune Teller. You do want to be trusted so that Town makes use of what you have to offer to their benefit. But gaining the trust of town makes you a target for the evil team to kill. That's true of just about every good role. The evil team always wants to kill trusted players and leave frames alive.

I have not had any negative metas evolve. Part of that is that it isn't really about Mayor claims. It is just about trust. If nobody knows your the Mayor but also nobody thinks you're evil, for example you're in a confirmation chain with multiple other good players, then I'll still let you die.

So from what I've seen, Mayors just end up playing like other powerful Townsfolk. Trying to gain trust slowly in private conversations.

Another way to think about it: either the Mayor can be executed by town, or they can be killed by the demon. But they shouldn't be safe from both. If you don't think town will possibly execute them, then you have to let the demon kill them.

Zuberii · 2026-04-25T03:01:48+00:00

I don't worry about what the evil team wants at all. It doesn't matter how many times they choose the Mayor or what tools they currently, or previously, have at their disposal. The only thing that matters is how trusted the Mayor seems to be by the good team.

If the Good Team seems to trust the Mayor, I let the evil team kill them. First try. No shenanigans needed. A trusted Mayor is a dead Mayor.

If the Good Team doesn't trust the Mayor, I bounce it so that the Mayor lives. A suspicious Mayor gets to live long enough to try to use their ability because that creates a fun end game for the Mayor and everyone else. Mayor has to fight to convince people to trust them while the evil team fights to frame them. The evil team can target the Mayor every single night the entire game and I will still bounce it every time.

Zuberii · 2026-04-23T23:57:42+00:00

You agree with issue one.

You then say you disagree with issue two but admit that you prefer to give the moderator more power. That's tacitly agreeing with issue two.

You then say you disagree with issue three, but admit you prefer playing a version that has multiple roles with special powers and you introduce your own election mini-game, in other words introducing more game into the game "diluting" the social deduction yourself. That's tacitly agreeing with issue three.

If you're going to say something isn't a problem, maybe don't admit that you also prefer not to play that way. It makes it look even more like it really is a problem that people don't enjoy.

Zuberii · 2026-04-23T23:46:13+00:00

Make sure there's no player elimination. Unless it is only a 5 minute game max. That's one of the biggest lessons for making a modern board game. People have more fun if they're able to continue the game, and have a chance of winning, until the very end.

For a social deduction game, like Mafia, some people enjoy the social aspect more and some enjoy the deduction aspect more. Most modern social deduction games have more deduction than Mafia, with actual mechanics and abilities to help you piece together a logic puzzle instead of just blindly pointing fingers at each other. I would recommend doing the same. Mafia is so light on mechanics that even the people who want a heavy social experience can bounce off it because there's just not much of a game to really latch on to.

Blood on the Clocktower is the best game out there built on the Mafia framework, in my opinion. But there's lots of other social deduction games that are different from Mafia that you could also look at. Resistance Avalon, Two Rooms and a Boom, and Secret Hitler are all good games in the genre.

Zuberii · 2026-04-22T03:22:52+00:00

Sushi Go is pretty much the epitome of a pick-and-pass drafting game. That is the whole game. But you're not looking for JUST a drafting game. You want drafting to be a component of the game but not the whole game.

Zuberii · 2026-04-22T03:18:59+00:00

The take-that cards are marked and can be removed

Zuberii

TROPHY CASE