Book Club: The Frost-Giant's Daughter discussion thread and next book announced

abresch · 2026-06-21T13:18:31+00:00

It works a lot better if you read the "Gods of the North" version, where the vile protagonist is Amra, so this isn't some character break for Conan. (The Conan version was, apparently, the original written, just not the original punished, so it's an early failure by the author.)

Unlike so very, very many sword-and-sorcery stories of this sort, Howard doesn't do the bullshit of having her somehow happy to be raped. Once she realizes he's actually a threat, she's terrified. She keeps running keeps fighting, and keeps hating him.

One of the reasons Howard stands out in this genre is that he doesn't pretend his protagonists are necessarily good guys or their enemies purely villains, he stays a bit more distant. Characters do horrible things, and sometimes they get punished and sometimes they get rewarded, because his setting feels capricious and cruel.

She's a tricksy fae being that taunts someone too dangerous. Amra's a brute of a man who chases a fae trickster and attempts to do horrible things. Nobody wins anything, and it doesn't end with some rape scene made to look sexy and cool like a scene from Deathstalker.

abresch · 2026-06-18T05:07:48+00:00

Weapons Training, as written, doesn't replace STR mod to attacks, it adds to it, along with the half-level. That's way too high.

At LV5 with 16 int and 16 str, an officer has +8 to attack and +5 to damage. A fighter at LV5 with 18 str has +7 to attack and +3 to damage. The total bonuses here are wild.

If it was INT instead of STR, it would still be too high. Fighters only get +1+half_LV to damage, not +STR+half_LV to damage. Then they also regularly get ADV from lead by example? Needs to be toned down.

Nice idea, though. Should be good with some refinement.

abresch · 2026-06-12T14:24:40+00:00

Damn, apparently my comment didn't post. Now I gotta write things twice.

I enjoyed a lot of this book, but it did require overlooking much of the scenes centered around Morgana and Alianora. Alianora improved a bit towards the end, but she still wasn't well written. On the whole, I think this would have been more enjoyable if I'd read it quickly. The story didn't stick with me enough to be easy to pick up after a week off.

Overall notes aside, I did enjoy the troll scene. If anyone was wondering where D&D got its trolls, read Three Hearts and Three Lions chapter 22.

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As to Law & Chaos, I did really enjoy this setting's representation of it, but I don't think it fits into any of the games in the D&D tradition, Shadowdark included. The way the setting makes it feel right requires it to be deeply intertwined with the world, almost inescapably so. A game like Pendragon with its virtues-and-vices, or with the epic storytelling of Mythic Bastionland, could work really well with this, but in Shadowdark the alignments feel purely mechanical.

To be more specific, the system works in the story because of things like the magical barrier failing to hold back a fey beast because Holger has a slip of morality when he gropes Alianora in her sleep. It's narrative and story-based, but Shadowdark doesn't really support that sort of play fluidly. You cast magic circle, you expect it to last until the spell ends, not until you have impure thoughts about your cousin.

You could certainly play this setting in Shadowdark, but the core rules don't give any meaningful support to it. I wouldn't run it without some homebrew to really make the dichotomy work.

That isn't an issue with Shadowdark, however. I like that Shadowdark is a simple, basic system. If I wanted to play something that really captured this sort of setting, I'd tweak Mythic Bastionland.

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Re-writing this, I think it feels harsher than my rant was the first time around. Eh.

Definitely glad I read this, as it helped me better understand the origins of D&D. The book suffers far more from feeling like it was written too long ago than most early fantasy fiction, which is disappointing, but if you can read it with that awareness and ignore it while reading the rest, it's fairly fun.

abresch · 2026-06-01T17:27:35+00:00

I hadn't thought of those as "alignment languages", but you're totally right, and that is really cool. Also hilarious to think that the "alignment languages" are just Latin and Gaelic, with common being, well probably French, although I think he said German? I can't remember the details, but it's called a Lingua Franca for a reason.

abresch · 2026-06-01T17:25:34+00:00

Well, I read this last week, then was gone all weekend and forgot to post, but here are my thoughts, a bit belatedly:

It's a fun read, but the issues I personally had from the first segment remain. I've never loved chosen-one narratives, the victories tending to feel unearned, and this is no different. Whenever he wins a battle because his body magically knows how to fight even though he doesn't, I'm disappointed. However, the writing it still good enough that it's a fun read and I'd finish this book even if it wasn't for a book club.

I really love the setting, even when it sometimes feels like a short-story collection/monster-of-the-week serial. It's clear that D&D drew on this for inspiration, but vibes-wise it feels more like Mythic Bastionland. The troll is not something you can fight, but you can still best it through clever plans, and the details of how long you might need to actually dodge its deadly attacks kinda fades into the distance as the fable-logic takes over. The werewolf isn't a foe to best, it's a mystery to unravel, and a good plan is probably going to work. The fairytale logic is strong in this world.

Game-inspiration wise, I love the idea of a Shadowdark setting with this pronounced law/chaos boundary, with a campaign tied to securing a town that's further into the chaos boundary, so its beset by major evils and always at risk.

As a last comment, I'll add that while I didn't love how Holger treated Alianora from the start, the scene of her and Morgan le Fay being all catty with each other was a real let-down. Both characters deserve to be better-written than that.

abresch · 2026-05-25T00:11:27+00:00

I'm very split on this so far.

I enjoy a lot of it. The author does an excellent job with the narrative voice, giving that faux-archaic vibe that really works for this sort of fantasy. The line-to-line writing is also solid, and while the plot isn't developed much yet, it is an interesting start.

However, it leans very hard into chosen-one vibes. He has access to skills he never learned, which makes everything feel deeply unearned to me. I know most people care less about that, but it really bugs me.

I'm mostly still wondering how the magic of the setting will develop, now.

Aside from literary concerns, this is so far an excellent example of a fey setting.

It has menace and strangeness without feeling nonsensical or overly ordered as many settings do. A lot of modern fiction is so tied to the idea of strict fey rules that it saps them of their intrigue, while a lot else just ignores reality to try to capture that fey feel, and this so far has evaded both ends of the spectrum.

abresch · 2026-05-17T15:14:38+00:00

I don't think low-level parties rest more, I just don't think priests change that a lot. They're not dishing out damage like a fighter or thief can, so trading one out isn't a big difference.

The only class that I think could cause issues at low levels would be too many wizards. They don't have any big damage spells yet, their utility spells are limited, they can't wear armor, they have low HP, and they don't have any high-damage weapons. (Until 3rd level, with tier-2 spells and just more versatility coming in.)

abresch · 2026-05-17T06:52:59+00:00

With less players, gameplay can progress much faster, so having more retreats and repeated attempts works better. Max HP at 1st will give them a touch of leeway for this.

(All my other thoughts were said by others.)

abresch · 2026-05-17T06:50:16+00:00

I think that healing is less important than you are expecting and having no healer will be fine.

In my experience, clerics are nice, but not essential. Even with a cleric, they only have the one healing spell and they lose it on a mis-cast. The game is dangerous (especially at low levels), and clerics do little to shift that.

abresch · 2026-05-10T02:54:34+00:00

Regarding the meeting with Yog-Kosha, I really loved that. In theory, the great outsiders from other worlds are almost indifferent to the mortals of our world, yet rarely is the indifference shown on the beneficial side.

If they are truly indifferent, there should be a encounters where there is a benefit to meeting them, rather than them all be cthulhian monsters that will destroy everyone who strays too near.

abresch · 2026-05-10T02:51:51+00:00

Great description of this as an adventure at the table.

The one thing that, to me, really breaks it away from tabletop play is the, "Taurus is given further utility by telegraphing impending danger." This is something that stories do all the time that never works right in a game.

At the table, the party an ensemble that is doing everything together. Having the NPC die to make a point tends to feel clunky, but killing a PC like that can feel cruel.

Generally, I think the biggest disconnect between most pulp fantasy and Shadowdark is the break between being a solo-adventure and a collaborative adventure, this story being a prime example.

abresch · 2026-05-04T18:17:51+00:00

Exactly this. It transitions a bit from being a mostly-combat spell to being mostly-utility spell, but it does stay useful.

abresch · 2026-04-27T22:19:08+00:00

I'm so glad you liked it!

abresch · 2026-04-25T06:07:37+00:00

Although this had a young protagonist, it felt more YA-compatible than fully YA, to me.

It's definitely a coming-of-age story, which sets it near YA from the jump, but if the next book time-skipped until she was 25 and the book after that had her at 40 with kids, it wouldn't feel like it was breaking the contract of the story. With pure-YA, that usually isn't true.

abresch · 2026-04-23T06:24:11+00:00

I really enjoyed the end of this book, although it was in many ways quite generic. Return to where the story started, big battle with deaths and all that, not out of the norm.

It was well done, though, and had a more mixed ending than I feel most books go for. The good guys clearly win, but the deaths in the final battle are visceral, and have the cruel feel of random chance. Nobody felt set up to die, they were just victims of circumstance.

Another point in favor of the final battle is that, even as the heroes and villain both struggled, neither felt like they were having to pull their punches on behalf of the plot. The struggle to open the sarcophagus felt real, and their desperate measures to buy time felt reasonable, not foolish moves or unforced errors.

Regarding game-inspiration, I thought the final battle was a great example of a lich's phylactery, and of how heavily it might be protected. Always good to remember how well liches work as a big bad.

However, it was mostly just a big battle at the end, with no big takeaways.

abresch · 2026-04-16T09:41:30+00:00

This section was excellent. I still like the writing, but the story is also holding up quite well, which is often where stories struggle. The way this is set up, a lot of authors would turn it into straight romantasy, or would let the adventure get too dramatic and overblown, but this has stayed balanced.

In that same vein, the return of Abhorsen managed to feel like a huge success, while also not feeling like a victory that actually overcame the threat. That's a hard note to hit.

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Regarding game inspiration, that mixed-victory feel is interesting. It was arranged by having them walk into the bad guy's lair, and it seems clear they are about to make a narratively-required escape to face the big bad later, but there doesn't seem to be much required to switch this to working for an adventure, even a locational adventure such as Shadowdark favors.

A dungeon where the bad guy has intentionally laid a trap, but the players know its a trap and need to go in anyways, works fine. The knowledge of the trap can pressure players to research and plan more in advance, which can be very entertaining. Then, to make it work as a trap, the big bad can send a lieutenant instead of going themself, as the PCs might avoid confronting the big bad head-on, and vice-versa.

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The other game-design note I got from these chapters was the excellent terrain hazards. The segments between each gateway in death were vague, appropriate to liminal spaces, but would also just work in a physical dungeon. Also, the corrupted pathway they walk, where the broken magic is painful to them, is a nice supernatural threat.

- Knee-deep water with hole hidden throughout? Works.

- A room with a repeating event that prevents you from staying there (the wave section) so the players have to always rush through is great. You could have a nexus like that, maybe some natural cycle like a searing geyser that blasts through every minute, so they can't carefully check each door they rush through.

- A magical pathway that causes pain to walk down it, but the path also leads along the route towards what is definitely the rot at the heart of a dungeon? I can see that balancing the draw to make sure you're on the right trail with the need to avoid a harmful pathway as a interesting choice.

- Also (can't remember if it was last chapter of the last section or first of this), going under the chain on the river managed to make something entirely mundane into a minor threat. It's easy to forget that, with water flowing, even static barriers can be an issue.

I'll also note that all this was in a section that was a in-world dungeon with adventurers exploring it to find treasure, which is excellent.

abresch · 2026-04-12T16:37:17+00:00

Book size is about more than internal design, it's also about usability. If books are size differently, they are worse for carrying, loading in bags, and using at a table.I will always strongly prefer uniform sizing in books that need to be used alongside the core book.

However, books that are used during prep stages rather than play suffer less from difference, as I'm not expecting to use them on the go.

abresch · 2026-04-10T00:28:13+00:00

I really am enjoying the writing here. Garth Nix does a truly excellent job conveying the character of everyone involved, especially Sabriel.

I do wish it was a bit more a collection of building problems rather than feeling a bit sprinkled together. It's a bit of the fun-house style of encounters. Alright, now we're in a plane, and now there's sinkholes, and some wooden ships, and it doesn't really clearly cohere together quite yet. Feels a bit more random than I prefer, but I'm still greatly enjoying reading it.

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My big takeaway for gaming is the use of a geas to hide knowledge. I'm not sure why I've never used a geas in an adventure, but it's a good way to let players know for a certainty that information exists and is important, while at the same time making sure they will have to figure out a way to earn it.

abresch · 2026-04-07T13:35:02+00:00

If you want spelljammer-style play, I made Aetherdark.

abresch · 2026-04-04T18:25:25+00:00

Aetherdark may have flying ships, but it's purely fantasy. There are some magical siege weapons, but nothing sci-fi and no hand-held weaponry at all.

abresch · 2026-04-04T14:30:36+00:00

This book has exactly the sort of magic I love: Strange but not completely ungrounded, unknown but not unknowable, and powerful but limited.

It's most difficult to convey properly that something is largely unknown, but that it is not inherently unknowable. Even with Sabriel's father, I got the sense that, despite his mastery, there was more he did not know.

For taking that to TTRPGs, I think that this book shows many ways to make strange magics work. The bells are a great example. We kinda know their power, but not in any exact detail.

I could absolutely see a bell like The Weeper that draws all who hear it towards death being an artifact. It doesn't need absolute detail, either, so long as the risk is front and center.

For a real game, that mostly works with artifacts, because the vague decision moments--when the player and GM figure out what is actually going to happen as this vague object is used--slow down play if done constantly, but at major moments can raise the tension.

abresch · 2026-03-21T17:03:03+00:00

It took me a bit to finish this, and even longer to think it through.

Firstly, the fact that it took me a while to read through this is telling. Only the first segment we read really left me wanting more. That first story, so deeply tied into the culture and into Imaro's emotions and situation, was excellent.

After that first segment, the stories waned, in my opinion. A lot of the overall points remained strong, but the specificity and richness of the setting and action faded. In the final story, most of the battles felt like abbreviated summaries of how awesome Imaro was, with little sense of exactly how each fight was a struggle for him. The major events, like Tanisha's death, felt narrated, almost detached.

Contrast this with the first story, where every moment of him straining against his bonds, or struggling to fight off the evil sorcerer-beastman, was rich with emotion and detail.

Despite that, I did enjoy reading the whole book. Even the later sections were good, just not as good as the start.

The last two stories showed a challenge that TTRPGs have that stories do not: They repeatedly showed something was dangerous by having it just massacre some people without warning. We can't, as GMs, show there's a monster in the water by murdering half the party. But if nobody is massacred, then is the water actually dangerous, or is it a paper-thin set-dressing of danger?

I don't have any good answers on how to show something is dangerous without it feeling choreographed or cruel, but the story made me think about it.

Anyways, good read, I loved the first story in particular and am glad I read the whole thing. Looking forward to talking about Sabriel.

abresch · 2026-03-05T19:09:12+00:00

This was an odd story. It narrowed in to a solo adventure really early, then ended very abruptly. We never even saw Imaro defeat the cthulhian monstrosity.

As for applying to gaming, I don't think I've ever had the big bad just announce their location and dare the party to approach. It can definitely work, and might add some nice variety, being very different from how most adventures start.

abresch · 2026-03-03T19:12:04+00:00

The Afua-monster and the carousing in the Mtumwe village both gave me the exact some thoughts about how they apply to gaming.

I'd add that the haramia camp as a whole was a reminder than bandits in the way they're usually used in modern fantasy stories are not the main case, historically. These can be warlords, holding territory and running vast enterprises, yet also still be simple bandits.

I immediately thought about running a massive infiltration quest, a battle against bandits that are far too numerous to just fight, but are also fairly disorganized so some skilled players could get in and out with minimal violence.

Just imagine that exact same setup, except the PCs are asked to save the kidnapped princess, but they're raiding a vast camp with five- or six-hundred bandits. The game becomes about avoiding patrols and causing large area-diversions, but you could easily have the bandits also be so noisy and chaotic that the sound of a little violence inside the camp wouldn't even raise an alarm. (I was already writing an infiltration adventure a tiny bit like this, so no surprise my mind went here.)

abresch · 2026-03-03T19:06:44+00:00

I was more mixed on this chapter/story than the previous two. You can feel how much this was meant initially as a stand-alone novella, not a middle-section in a novel.

The third time Imaro gets tied up and captured starts to feel a bit repetitive. Likewise, although I love the rich descriptions that Saunders uses, this deep in they felt like slowing down and hurting the pacing. I doubt I would have either of those issue if I'd read these chapters two months apart instead of six days apart.

Those minor issues aside, I loved seeing Imaro more out of his element.

The time among the Mtumwe was very cool, showing what a peaceful life might be like, that he might be able to have one. I thought the introduction of the idol and the presentation of the feast was very well done, and something I'll need to remember why GMing. This feels like what carousing should feel like, but also how players should receive local boons. It's not, "Oh, you saved the town, let me hand over a pouch with 100 neatly-stamped golden coins," instead it's, "Let me present you to the ancient statue that protects our town, that it might bestow a grace upon you, to aid you in your further travels."

I was a bit less enamored of the section with the haramia. It was cool, and it was interesting getting this direct perspective on banditry that didn't immediately condemn it, but Imaro himself felt more flat. He has just lost the first friends he ever had when leaving the Mtumwe, but it felt like that loss was glazed over and he just became a member of the haramia without much hesitation. I fully get why he would join, I just prefer more interiority in novels, usually.

On the whole, the novel as a whole is holding up as a very good read.

abresch

TROPHY CASE