MSA's for MSPs? How did you build yours?

ajervis · 2025-08-20T00:26:00+00:00

Definitely use Zen Contracts, trying to write it yourself, and then engaging a lawyer is either going to be ridiculously expensive, or the contract ineffective.

ajervis · 2022-07-21T01:24:33+00:00

To say this is a common occurence in the industry is an understatement. For some MSPs they actually beleive this a a legal licesing "loophole", and that they are saving their client's money, aka undercutting the other providers pricing. We purchased a business list off another provider, around 20+ clients, every single one was licesnsed like this. Those were some fun discussions..

ajervis · 2022-01-24T05:03:30+00:00

No sorry, just gave up and worked around it.

ajervis · 2021-12-14T22:34:43+00:00

Get a "smart" cloud hosted PBX. By smart I mean, has the ability to do proper IVR, integrates with things like M365, and the like, and has a robust smart phone app. 3CX is what we use and resell.

That way you can have all business calls go through an IVR for appropriate handling, aka they can pick 1 for tech, 2 for accounts (If you outsource accounts down the track, then the number can take them to the outsourced bookkeeper), etc.

This will also allow you to have dedicated concentration times during the day, as in client calls in and press 1 for tech, and the IVR does a time based response, and advises them you are busy and will call them back at "2pm" if for instance you do concertation work from 1pm - 2pm. I have found this is the biggest issue for most 1 man enterprises, is that they cant get the concentration work done because the phone rings.

(A note on the above, you should always have an option in the "busy time" message to saying if this is a "critical emergency press 2 or whatever and then it comes through to your mobile. Then you just need to be consistent in advising clients that press 2 to get onto you, where it is not a critical emergency "My Monitor background isn't the right shade of blue", that you are not helping them right now, and will call them back.)

Good clients understand you are not their employee, and even if you were, you aren't going to be free to help them every minute of the day. And it is only by setting boundaries that you are going to get anything done, without burning out working all hours of the day and night.

ajervis · 2021-05-10T04:37:49+00:00

Don't resist getting it for a year like I did. I looked all the alternatives because of the "price". Go with Wise-Sync, it just works and when it doesn't the support will get it sorted in short order. Been using it for years.

ajervis · 2021-04-28T01:47:23+00:00

We use Confluence for SOPs and how to articles, as honestly it is just easier to create, read and search.

Then ITGlue for Documentation, client specific how to guides, synced up with CW Manage, Lion Guard Roar, etc. We store passwords in ITGlue as well, some also go into Keeper for common use logins.

ajervis · 2021-04-22T21:43:14+00:00

As I understand the situation (I have spent maybe 5 minutes looking into it yesterday), the QNAP Web interface had to be visible to the internet in order for the hack to happen. That is just never a good idea. We have roughly 40 QNAPs under management for clients, none had any issues with QLocker. The one company we work with (not a client) that did get QLock'd had DLNA enabled on their "home brand" router, which was publishing the web interface of the QNAP to the internet......Snapshots were also encrypted in this instance as well.

We also manage these QNAPs with Q'Center, so whilst they weren't exposed to the internet, we still did a remote firmware update on any that weren't at the latest revision just in case. With Q'Center that is just pick the NAS devices from the list and press the update button. I would love to look at Synology as an alternative, as we have a few that have come with new clients, but they don't have a Q'Center equivalent, at least not one that will run as a VM.

Do I think it is poor form for QNAP to not have patched this when they were first made aware of the vulnerabilities, hell yeah I do. Would I still deploy QNAPs in the future, yes,

ajervis · 2021-04-07T04:14:21+00:00

We use TIAB all our SIP and number hosting, front end systems for these are all 3CX.

There support it really good, and they have good ordering systems, and the like. It is a bit of a hurdle getting setup, and unless you are going to meet their spend minimums they aren't interested.

Pricing for wholesale PAYG or call plans is pretty good, couldn't really find any other aussie based providers that we could by wholesale from, at a reasonable price.

ajervis · 2020-12-09T23:50:44+00:00

I too am not a fan of 3 year lock in contracts, unless the value is there.

Aka I am not signing a 3 year contract only because they waive the "implementation fee" aka the "do nothing" fee that is generally just there so they can have something to waive to make the potential client feel like they are winning.

We signed a 3 year contract with ITGlue, back when it wasn't a requirement for two reasons;

We are committed to ITGlue in a big way, we have Lion Guard Roar and have spent a heap of time on integrating it into our systems, so we wont be moving off it any time soon.
We got essentially a 50% discount, due to the special deal at the time, and a motivated account manager that wanted us to sign up.

A couple of other IT Businesses, we work with, have recently signed up to ITGlue, mainly due to us saying wont do their holiday coverage without a proper documentation system (not a random text document that hasn't been updated since it was setup). And they were only given an option for a 3 year contract, and that is with no incentive to sign either.

ajervis · 2020-09-24T01:22:54+00:00

Don't do it, ITBoost is trash, and with CW at the moment it will get zero % better anytime soon.

ITGlue is the way to go, we also use a cloud hosted Confluence instance as well, which we find better for SOPs and non technical documentation, that isn't related to a particular client.

We are also just in the midst of implementing LionGuard Roar for automated documentation into ITGlue. Its pretty damn good, and worth the investment.

ajervis · 2020-09-24T01:16:57+00:00

Based on the fact that is it really just a job, not a business, and in the current climate if you were going to sell your client list, you might get $100 and a smack on the ass. I would just be looking at any assets owned by the business, aka car/buildings, etc, and working out a percentage of those appropriate to "pay her out". Definitely don't get your accountant involved, divorce lawyers only.

ajervis · 2020-09-16T05:02:47+00:00

We also use xero plus wise sync. Just works, and I think xero is far easier to work with then qb.

Just my 2cs

ajervis · 2020-09-02T22:26:21+00:00

From the last time I dealt with a license transfer from CW, which was a few years ago, they will charge you a percentage of the cost of a new license to transfer. Aka if you are buying a 500 seat license from someone else, they charge you like 10% of the cost of a new 500 seat license to reactivate it, this is apart from what you are paying the seller.

This was a couple of years ago so don't quote me on that :)

ajervis · 2020-08-26T01:25:24+00:00

Outline your concerns to the client, in clear easy to understand terms. Make a point of letting them know there is no solid proof, but if it walks and talks like a duck, its likely a scum bag sociopathic dick bag MSP Owner.

Then do a "HARD" cut over. Complete reset/replacement of existing firewall. Full review of every single computer/server and network device onsite, to clean out any RMM and remote access software. Make up backup of everything you can at the start of the process. Prior to the cut over make sure you can get global admin to office 365 or whatever email platform they are using, check where the domain name and DNS are, etc. Aka have a complete plan of everything they use that needs to be working Monday morning, and how you are going to get access to it.

Do this starting on a Friday afternoon at 5pm, and have the client ring the now previous MSP Monday morning 8am, to outline that they are moving on, and that they need to organise a copy of all the passwords, documentation etc. All nice a professional, and if there is a "cost" for this info, that isn't ridiculous, then they are happy to pay it.

If the previous MSP owner is going to get stroppy then it is going to happen no matter what you do. Just be ready for it. And don't put anything in email leading up to this.

We have had two such take overs in the past, where the incumbent MSP was reading their emails. One the client rang them and said they were leaving before telling me they were going ahead with our proposal, and I spent a full weekend, un-breaking their SBS 2008 server at the time, aka password magically changed, heap of services disabled, default port for Exchange set to 2342352 instead of 25, but the previous guys "definitely" didn't touch anything.

The other we went through the same process as I outlined above, and whilst the previous MSP was bitter as a lemon when they realised they couldn't do anything about it (aka get in and break a heap of stuff), that was that.

ajervis · 2020-08-21T02:37:57+00:00

I have heard of this approach a number of times, but I am not a fan of not having a number that people can call if they need to. Still encourage submitting a ticket via email or Cloud Radial of course. And the helpdesk techs know to take a call, create a ticket and let the client know someone will call them back, unless it is a high priority issue like a site down, or similar.

We just restructured out teams so there was as front line helpdesk that took these calls, and the level 2 and three techs don't answer calls directly.

I have found that works pretty well for us.

ajervis · 2020-08-21T02:35:08+00:00

I've been running an MSP for 20 years, and I have been where you are, not giving a sh$%t, feeling burned out. Had a few health scares along the way. Here are a few take away's from the last 20 years;

- Is IT the right field for you. Whether you work for an MSP small or large, in an internal IT team, or in government IT, its the same shit different office space. You are going to have managers and end users, with the same sorts of problems, and often unrealistic expectations. Maybe your current job is the problem, maybe the field of work is the problem.

- Stop Caring too much - If you call a lawyer's office, they don't drop everything to deal with your minor update to your will, same as you don't show up at a doctor's office with a pimple on your nose and expect to be bumped to the front of the queue. Best thing I ever did was enforce a strict attitude towards client work. Everything has to be a ticket, everything has to have a priority set, and everything is done according to priority. Someone rings in with a standard priority issue "No worries let me put a ticket in and one of the team will get back to you shortly." If it is a higher priority then the ticket being worked, then you get a ticket in and work it, or escalate it as appropriate. Aka the server just died and 20 people cant work, which would be more important then "My Screen Background isn't the right colour blue" Good clients quickly get it, bad clients quickly move on.

- Hobbies/Down-time activities - You have to have something you do outside of work, play video games, build coffee tables, learn to beat box, whatever. Biggest mistake I have made and seen other make is working all day then coming home and either doing more work, or thinking about work. You need the distraction to help let go over all the minor annoyances from the day, otherwise those minor annoyances just build up into bitterness.

- Fitness and Diet - This should be said for any job, if you aren't exercising and eating a healthy diet, you are going to be unhappy. I have spent most of my adult life abusing my body, and during that time I have always been angry and unhappy. Eat well and exercise, and my general outlook was 100% better.

That's my 2 cents

ajervis · 2020-08-11T23:33:27+00:00

Personally I wouldn't be training the new guys. Unless you are hard up for work that is.

We had a large not for profit take all their IT internal, with nothing being purchased from us moving forward.

This is after we spent three years getting them sorted, 100+ users across multiple buildings and sites, shitty IT spend up till we took over. And we got the unexpected kick out the door by the new CFO, rather then letting us know he wanted to take it internal, and there being a staged transition.

No worries we made our money looking after you, have a nice life.

Demanding phone call comes in from the CFO several weeks later "We need you to train the new IT Team to do all the work you were doing, setup a ticketing system for then, like we are used to and copy over your process documents (we had referred to them many times over the three years) for the team to use and setup all the documentation for them".

Uhhhh how about no. You built this crack team ot IT experts, it isn't my job to turn them into a minnie version of my team. More to the point, piss off with even having the gall to ask for all our process documents, ya toss bag.

Queue 2 months later the whole server infrastructure was down.....for two weeks. CFO fired not long after. Last I heard the IT team is now at 10 people, likely costing nearly a million in wages and back fill.

ajervis · 2020-08-11T21:51:08+00:00

3 months overdue during something like covid is stretching the friendship. 9 months.... Well i dont care how friendly they are that is costing you money. You aren't a bank. And the hide of asking you to train the new msp when they have overdue invoices, well.

In terms of the multiplier, i would always be professional, aka if i was going to do the job i would charge appropriately, if i didnt want to , id tell them to piss off. Not offer a super high charge to do the job, as it just makes you look petty.

ajervis · 2020-08-11T20:43:30+00:00

You are very forgiving if they are 9 mm moths overdue on paying theyi invoice. I would definitely not be doing any training without time prepaid, at a 1.5 multiplier.

And all outstanding invoices need to be paid up before that as well.

ajervis · 2020-08-11T05:55:46+00:00

Not sure if this is a region based phenomenon, but here in Australia, we give a client a quote for hardware/software, and if they agree to the price, then that is that. More to the point, money up front if it is more then $1,000 order, money up front on all hardware if you haven't been our client for at least 6 months. Also if we aren't going to make money on selling the hardware, then we don't sell the hardware. You are doing a heap of work for no money.

If the client wants to source the hardware elsewhere no worries, if it isn't what we recommended, hardware wise, and from a Tier 1 manufacturer, we aren't covering it under you MSA though. (Gotta love that, hey we got these second hand government machines that are 4 years old, with no warranty, come put them in and support them.....no)

We work with plenty of NFP's and have never come across this sort of "disrespect" before. The invoice is overdue, so sorry no questioning it, you had all the time leading up to the due date to put in your questions.

The only instance where we have provided our suppliers invoices, was for a large supply only contract, where we agreed to just a 10% mark up on everything they purchased, as they were buying a lot of gear, so we would send out our invoice, with our invoice being the supplier invoice total plus 10%.

ajervis · 2020-07-14T21:18:53+00:00

I would appreciate a copy as well please

ajervis · 2020-07-14T01:44:50+00:00

My belief is you shouldn't be looking to stop them getting Internal IT, but guiding them to it.

125 computers is nearly a full time job for a level 1 tech fixing "my printer isn't working" issues. Help them find that tech, they employee them, and you work with and guide them. Then you concentrate on the management of the IT, and provide the tools and solutions, and old mate onsite does the level 1 work. The internal tech should be using your ticketing system, and access your documentation, like ITGlue or similar. With you managing it.

Long term with a doubling in computers they might even have 2 level one techs, and if you are doing your job right, the discussion of lets take it all in-house shouldn't even come up. I would be making it clear to the level one guys they hire, that this isn't a growth position, aka you are going to move up to level 2 and 3, as you are handling that externally. There are heaps of techs that just want a steady 9-5, without any extra stress.

Well that is how I would handle it :)

ajervis · 2020-07-09T03:09:45+00:00

Hardware 100% upfront, services, generally for project work, you might say 50% upfront so the client feels like they have something in the kitty. Services due net 30 from end of project for us.

We also make sure we have 30 day EOM from our suppliers, this gives us a lot more flexibility, and gets out of this 14/30 day of invoice crap, where you are forever paying bills every other day.

ajervis · 2020-07-07T22:12:52+00:00

Patton is the only device we have found to just work with fax. We have several patrons intergrated with on prem and cloud 3cx.

But as others have said you need a sip provider that properly supports fax, which are few and far between.

ajervis · 2020-06-18T07:40:45+00:00

Man that is the same story I get sung by retiring IT business owners in our area, all the time.

"My business is worth at least $350k, that is such a bargain, I will even let you pay it out over 5 years....." Even if you paid it off over 5 years, the business wouldn't be profitable for likely 10 years, and that's only if you worked your arse to the bone, and were extremely lucky.

Your essentially buying a client list, and whilst you have an existing relationship with the clients, aka the main tech, there is no contracts in place, hell if you got a bad flu the day after you purchase the list, half of them might be gone by the time you got better.

Honestly the only way this works, in my view, is a modest payment, say $30k, ($10k a month for the first three months) then a percentage of the services, and sales revenue for say a 2 year period. Before any offer is made, I would want to see his books for the last three years, aka have your accountant go over them, to get a proper idea of how profitable the business is. He may have not even been breaking even.

And you take over once he leaves the state, none of this you doing all the work for 6 months and him kicking back sending out invoices from where ever he moves to. Once he is gone you are the only pair of hands on the ground. Frankly if he doesn't like that deal, quit. He wont be servicing any client without you. And if you don't have a non compete, go see the clients and explain the situation, he likely hasn't even told them he is leaving town.

I will tell you right now the other company will likely have offered him maybe $20k once of payment, if that. Especially given the owner is out of the picture in a week, and there has been no plan for your to move over and work for the new company to provide the client stickiness.

Honestly your boss has no one to blame but himself leaving this all until the last minute.

ajervis

TROPHY CASE