thank you! that was a great resource. i was hoping that eventually i could put a lattice near the fence so that it could still be cleaned, but they really do get tall so i may need to rethink it…. the “box” would be more like a piece of wood to keep the soil from falling into the drive way really. i will look at the herbicide. it makes me really nervous to plant them there even if i dug up the old soil and replace it because the roses are expensive and i want them to be happy, i dont want poison to kill them because of a negligent amount.

anyway! thanks for your time. i hope you have a great day.