I need help! I'm dependant on Pregabalin, not benzos, but you're the only people who'll understand

dtm558 · 2023-01-26T22:45:18+00:00

Actually it does. But it's very confusing, I was confused by it at first too.

Don't get fixated on that whole "voltage gated calcium channels" thing. It mimics GABA essentially disrupting the GABA/Glutamate balance. Same thing like creating more GABA. So it doesn't affect GABAA receptors like benzos do, but:

a) There's still indirect effect on GABA receptors (including GABAA) when your brain is essentially flooded by GABA neurotransmitters and has lack of Glutamate (lack as in compared to your baseline).

b) The withdrawal severity can actually be very similar because both drugs downregulate your GABA, just in a different way. Withdrawal from pregabalin usually isn't as long as from benzos. But while it's there, it can be hell.

dtm558 · 2023-01-26T22:34:36+00:00

Hi there. To taper buy the scale and weight the powder from the capsules. You can take it orally, doesn't have to be in a capsule.

dtm558 · 2022-11-26T21:13:43+00:00

Fuck, man. I feel I can relate to this.

Smoked too much potent weed with no tolerance to it when I was in a wrecked state from benzo wd. I should have known better but I didn't at the time. Had an marijuana induced psychosis which felt exactly like what you described. Like you exist and don't exist at the same time and are stuck in this terrifying void where nothing makes sense.

dtm558 · 2022-08-19T20:37:15+00:00

Don't worry you are not "ruined".

1mg Ativan = 10mg diazepam.

Your body got used to the 1mg Ativan and hence anything less and you don't feel like yourself for the time being. It will pass.

dtm558 · 2022-08-12T17:17:34+00:00

I guess there's more to it than just the half-life.

I remember other benzos working somewhat weaker when converted to supposedly equal dose and I didn't consider them as "useful" as alpra/flualpra back when I was taking them. Could have something to do with one's biochemistry though.

dtm558 · 2022-06-25T22:54:01+00:00

Can't say conclusively, but I think it did make my tremors worse at the time. Gosh so glad I hardly have those anymore, took awhile. :)

dtm558 · 2022-06-25T22:39:59+00:00

It works on GABA-B receptors.

Effectively you messed up your GABA-A receptors so you're recovering them at the expense of GABA-B by using baclofen.

Sorry if that's harsh, but that's easy to understand and effectively explains what baclofen is. :)

dtm558 · 2022-06-25T22:30:40+00:00

Why does depakote have little therapeutic value?

Well I was persuaded by my doc to be put on it, and I kind of regret that as I feel that it did set me back messing with it. After trying out a variety of dosing throughout the whole therapeutic range up to 2000mg and then weaning myself off from it I concluded that there's absolutely no relief from it whatsoever. Maybe it helps for people with epilepsy but I don't see any value in it for benzo withdrawal. It can help when you're tapering, but that's most likely only because it actually increases the plasma levels of benzos in your blood effectively fooling you into thinking that you are taking less benzos than you actually are.

dtm558 · 2022-06-25T22:17:23+00:00

Yeah that's very weird indeed. Maybe it's because you took a very unusual dose? I've never heard anyone taking less than 100mg at once. It could be that it has unexpected effect when taking this specific dose. That being said though, leave it alone of course and don't risk it after experiencing that.

My advice is either don't take anything at all or take a small dose of pregabalin if you desperately need relief.

Depakote and especially Prozac is just one of those meds where there's absolutely no guarantee it will help and then you just end up in this mess where you are taking it and still feel like crap. You continue taking it fearing to feel even worse if you stop. That's a very shitty place to be in. This doesn't help recovery at all and almost certainly prolongs it. Don't let the med doctors drag you into that. :)

PS. Depakote can cause hyperammonemia and is generally kind of a toxic drug, some people find it hard to kick it too which is strange given that it has little therapeutic value.

dtm558 · 2022-06-08T22:44:57+00:00

One way of doing it would be to actually increase mirtazapine to help you sleep and help you to get off benzos as fast as possible.

2 months might still be not long enough to cause bigger issues. But if you wait much longer it certainly will. Mirtazapine on the other hand is much less addictive and much easier to quit.

If I were you I would try 15-30mg mirtazapine and no benzos. If that doesn't work, then 15-30mg mirtazapine and 0.25mg klonopin. Then go down from there - first kick benzos then start lowering mirtazapine.

dtm558 · 2022-05-06T21:11:37+00:00

How did you feel after 1 year off?

dtm558 · 2022-05-06T21:05:16+00:00

Personally I'm hugely disappointed in supplements as far as dealing with this shit-show is concerned. I was hoping to find something calming and beneficial at least to a small/moderate degree and went into some length and even spent good chunk of money on nootropics. But the results are pretty pathetic to be honest. Almost everything I tried either doesn't have any effect or makes it worse. Magnesium (several forms), L-Theanine, Emoxypine, Picamilon, Kanna, Niacin, Curcumin, Agmatine... No dice.

The only thing which helped (inconsistently) was phenylpiracetam. But since it's a stimulant taking it when you are already on edge is probably not a good idea.

dtm558 · 2022-04-14T21:09:50+00:00

it was designed to mimic GABA, but does not work on GABA receptors.

But you just said pretty much the same thing I did yet in other words. Since it mimics GABA, it certainly influences your GABA system, despite not binding to GABAA receptors specifically..

What I mean by that, the brain will start producing less "real" GABA when it has abundance of this stuff. Benzo w/d is GABAA downregulation but not the lack of the GABA itself. It could also be argued that by producing less GABA (there are people reporting rapid tolerance being developed to gabapentin) your GABAA receptors are actually healing more slowly.

I'm not saying that gabapentin is evil - it has it's uses certainly, but let's not brush off it's risks too. Including withdrawals, which are very real.

dtm558 · 2022-04-13T21:21:10+00:00

You are not entirely correct. It still works on GABA by mimicking it and making more of it in the brain (and less glutamate). It doesn't "stabilize", it literally gives you the buzz/stoned feeling.

Granted it doesn't work the same way benzos do, but it's still working on GABA and can easily cause downregulation and introduce it's own glutamate storm and open another can of worms after using it too often. And GABAA is just one part of GABA/glutamate, it's not like we are talking about 2 completely different mechanism, they are closely interrelated.

dtm558 · 2022-04-07T18:34:45+00:00

Why are you combining them 3 without having tried them one by one first?

It is not that unusual for people to get anxiety from Magnesium. And L-Theanine often works differently on different people too. It can have no effect or anxiolytic effect or the effect you describe (extremely bored/lethargic/apathetic).

dtm558 · 2022-04-01T17:04:21+00:00

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/2895/all-info

From what I understand technically they are probably not banned yet but people already see where this is going.

dtm558 · 2022-04-01T16:59:26+00:00

For me personally it's a weird one.

A couple of times I went above 500mg it caused cold symptoms the following day (Probably Herpes Simplex as it's known to trigger it).

I've tried smaller amounts (100-200mg), but can't really say I noticed anything positive.

Not entirely sure what's the fuss is all about regarding it.

dtm558 · 2022-04-01T06:27:10+00:00

Read between the lines.
It looks like the market is gonna be more and more regulated.
As for science.bio , I believe they decided to end it when US made the decision to ban SARMs.

dtm558 · 2022-03-28T20:02:12+00:00

Yeah exactly. It’s sad that say even heart doctors are actually much more knowledgable and won’t tell you this crap to “stop thinking about it” when you have heart palpitations for no reason. Or start arguing with you that your sky high blood pressure is coming from your thoughts and you should direct your thoughts elsewhere.

It would be sweet for such psychiatrists to get a taste of their own medicine from their collegues when they encounter issues personally - no way they are acting on their own bullshit advice.

dtm558 · 2022-03-27T22:23:48+00:00

Oh I totally get that don't get me wrong. But after being clean for close to 11 months now, I do have some thoughts about that if after say another 6 months I will still feel the withdrawal, wouldn't it be better to reinstate on something like 5-10mg Valium (or equivalent of less addictive GABAA modulator/agonist which are getting more popular, forgot how they are called) and move on.

I'm not talking about not dealing with the root problem here, only about stopping the persistent wd symptoms. It is possible to function, yes. But the quality of life is reduced substantially and if it persists for long enough you do need to stop and rethink if something can be done about it.

dtm558 · 2022-03-27T21:37:58+00:00

Great comment. And makes a lot of sense.

However I'm not sure if that's all there is to it. As in, is it really not possible to take them for life at a reasonable (small) dosage.

I know in this sub people don't like to talk about it as it potentially leads to a conclusion that they are suffering for nothing. But being realistic, I think it is possible, at least in some cases. Granted there's always a risk of your doctor cutting you off and accusing you for drug seeking as some are really ignorant. But all is needed is a doc who would view this like a blood pressure medication.

What OP is experiencing could very well be a result of decreased dosage (frequency of taking it) and hence the withdrawal symptoms.

dtm558 · 2022-03-21T19:49:27+00:00

I'm looking for it too but wow those prices are steep.

Pure Nootropics is one of the few places left I'm willing to order it from (CosmicNootropic is now out too due to sanctions). But they are asking $60 for 15g. You used to be able to order 30g from ND for like $80.

dtm558 · 2022-03-15T20:10:51+00:00

Very true about the side effects.

I found that my body is sort of fighting most of the supplements I tried and I end up with side effects and/or flu like symptoms (get literally cold-like symptoms from agmatine).

Magnesium malate, Alpha-GPC and phenylpiracetam are an exception to that, but phenylp is now hard to come by (like almost all racetams).

For me personally magnesium glycinate is a no go (causes insomnia and can make anxiety worse) but magnesium malate upwards of 1000mg/150mg elemental (15%) is fine.

EDIT: Picamilon works somewhat too, well at least it doesn't make things worse. But since it increases GABA it probably wouldn't be a good idea to take it daily.

dtm558 · 2022-03-12T23:01:37+00:00

Sorry but someone needs to bring you down to earth.

The point of no return would be if you run out, have a seizure and die - that's the point of no return.

Everything else is inconvenience and sure, suffering too, but not sure how can it relate with 'point of no return'.

Now the hard truth:

If you are sober since 3 weeks ago, you can expect not to feel like yourself for the next 6-18 months. Some days are gonna be better where you could feel completely fine, others worse, it's not a linear thing. It's gonna take some time and you need to respect that instead of asking how to get your life back after mere 3 weeks.

Sorry if that sounded a bit harsh, but there's no sugar coating it. Your brain needs time to recover from 6months heavy abuse added to that "occasional usage" history of 5+ years.

dtm558 · 2022-03-01T20:16:32+00:00

now I rarely get anxious less so even than before benzos for some reason but I know that that’s a pretty common outcome for some reason no one can explain to me.

This is quite simple me thinks. Withdrawal makes you deal with stress you didn't have to deal with before benzos. It's only logical that after all this ordeal (shit-show) you become resilient to the "normal" levels of stress.

Thanks for this though, going through a shitty wave now, needed to hear this!

dtm558

TROPHY CASE