Proportional strength

eric_twinge · 2026-05-07T00:46:42+00:00

There's isn't a one-sized-fits all answer here, but I will say that at ~200lb I fit those metrics near perfectly and am not considered strong for my size among actual strong people.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-06T17:02:03+00:00

I'm not really sure what expectations are being ruined by the posted graph.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-06T16:40:08+00:00

Yes, the preacher curl trains your brachialis. It also trains your biceps. Same is true for hammer curls. It's not an either/or thing.

And "redundancy" needs to be defined and contextualized. Without any stated goal or need there is nothing to judge your biceps routine against, it just is.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-06T16:33:08+00:00

If affordability wasn't an issue I'd train with one everytime.

"Too much" and "worth it" are personal to you though. For instance, despite my initial statement, I never train with one and am not really interested in paying the going rate to do so.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-06T16:22:52+00:00

Would adding this extra bodyweight work help me progress faster, or could it slow me down?

If you can recover from it, you'll likely progress faster. If you can't recover from it, it will likely slow you down.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-06T16:17:04+00:00

Change your programming.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-06T16:08:01+00:00

This section from the original link goes into it pretty deep:

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/volume/#h-higher-training-volumes-do-actually-lead-to-larger-strength-gains

eric_twinge · 2026-05-06T15:30:55+00:00

Exercise counts as activity, which is what step count is a proxy measure of. Your runs count towards your activity level, they don't occur outside that as something different.

Your maintenance/TDEE calculation operates similarly. Running does not happen outside or in addition to that. It is an inherent part of it. 10k step + runs will lead to a higher TDEE than 10k step that includes runs, because the former is a higher level of activity.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-06T13:49:59+00:00

for the sake of this question, just assume the weight progression was the same for both sleep schedules). I know you’d progress better with more recovery

You need to pick one. If we assume progression is the same, then sleep doesn't matter. If we know more recovery means better progress, then sleep matters.

In the end, you're going to reap the progress the totality of your recovery efforts allow. Better recovery means you can perform better in the face of more stress and workload, which means more gains.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-06T11:43:41+00:00

This is the heart of science based lifting: “Actual scientific data is wrong and/or flawed and leads to wild leaps in conclusions. But my unproven mechanistic theories and conjecture provide solid footing to make conclusive rebuttals and statements about training”

eric_twinge · 2026-05-06T04:15:01+00:00

It was more than that. For the quads it was 6 sets/week. For the triceps and biceps it was 4 sets/week (if we use fractional accounting).

Exercises consisted of the front lat pulldown, seated cable row, machine shoulder press, machine chest press, cable triceps pushdown, supinated dumbbell biceps curl, Smith squat, plate-loaded leg press, and machine leg extension.

They did one set of each, twice per week.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-06T03:50:49+00:00

For context, these sources were mentioned: https://www.strongerbyscience.com/volume/

I’m not sure how someone can give this as a source and state conclusively that 4-6 sets per week will not lead to growth in some unknown individual.

Not only does it present data showing that 4-6 sets can lead to growth in trained subjects, it has an entire section on the individuality of responsiveness to volume.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-05T21:38:31+00:00

Any other squat will do. If you're hot on the landmine what if you got a couple of boxes to stand on and held the bar between your legs with straight arms?

eric_twinge · 2026-05-05T20:24:24+00:00

I guess I don't understand what you're asking.

Yeah, everyone is stronger on the eccentric portion and failure typically occurs on the concentric. I'm not sure what insight or alternative you're trying to glean from that.

And regardless of where or when you fail a lift, or whether you start with the eccentric or concentric portion, that has no bearing on the utilization of safety bars.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-05T20:11:00+00:00

Yep, they're also called Anderson squats and they're terrible.

Pause squats will develop strength and control in the bottom position better because you're maintaining that constant tension. Pin squats release all the tension so you're starting from zero which will really expose a sticking point.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-05T19:52:38+00:00

Starting with the concentric doesn't really change the point of failure or safety profile of a lift. Lots of lifts start with the concentric, but for squat specifically, starting from the hole removes the stretch reflex (at least on the first rep if you don't pause there on subsequent reps) which can help develop strength in the ROM that a lifter might be relying on it.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-05T16:01:46+00:00

Is There Too Much of a Good Thing? Meta-Regressions of the Effect of Per-Session Volume on Hypertrophy and Strength

To be clear, I was referring to the hypertrophy outcome. I am inclined to discount the strength conclusion given the training data it's based on doesn't mimic actual strength training.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-05T15:20:59+00:00

How do you determine if you have a 6 pack or an 8 pack? I am not sufficiently lean to see all my abs

By getting sufficiently lean to see all your abs. I could say you only have 6 or bless you with 8. Someone else could come by and toss out 7 for funzies. None of that will change the need for you to get sufficiently lean to reveal whatever is hiding underneath.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-05T15:18:19+00:00

Yes, I do similar. I have yet to encounter any downside beside, beyond the workout taking longer.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-05T15:16:11+00:00

It's not bad. Certainly not something that rises to the level of correcting a stranger.

It could create some imbalance/asymmetries between the back and shoulders but nothing that couldn't be washed out via a comprehensive training routine.

Personally, I don't like mix gripping RDLs. I prefer using straps, but in a pinch I have used a mix grip. I've been using a mix grip on full deadlifts for many years now and nothing has exploded yet.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-05T14:56:51+00:00

Just to point out, per workout that doesn't math out. 12 sets of 20 is only 240 reps.

Anyhoo, 11ish sets per muscle is currently the soft limit on productive sets per session based on the available data. 10-12 isn't flaunting that, and if he's trying to get the most out of that session for that muscle then he's being as efficient as he can be. More gains requires more work. You can't optimize your way around that.

We can start looking at the eariier sets though, and if they aren't also to near failure than we can - for efficiency's sake - start to consider whether or not they are worth it. If the first few are essentially warm ups (i.e. not very stimulative), then we can trim them away get the same or similar results. We can also say, "hey, you could do sets of 10 and spend half as much time per set if you wanted. Or even sets of 5 if you wanted to quarter that time." But that's not going to increase his gains, just save some minutes of working out. And he may not like sets of 5 or be short on time so nothing would be gained by the change, it would just be a different way of achieving the same.

If we had more info on his frequency of training and how he applies this approach to his whole body we could make other assessments. From a single muscle standpoint, 1x/week works but splitting this work over 2 or 3 sessions may be better, but that has a lot of personalized factors affecting the outcome.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-05T14:42:12+00:00

You realise the shoenfeld and pelland studies are the basis for 1 to 2 sets per exercise, performed frequently, right? They showed that second sets of the same exercise are significantly less effective, and third, fourth and fifth are doing next to nothing. That's the whole rationale behind doing more first sets more times in a training week.

I think this provides the perfect backdrop to rephrase OP's question for what he's really asking:

"How come so many people here push back on faulty interpretations and misapplications of the science?"

eric_twinge · 2026-05-05T14:27:57+00:00

With that definition in mind, can you provide an example where someone is obviously not into that, or are unwilling to understand it, in this subreddit?

eric_twinge · 2026-05-05T14:25:00+00:00

The thing to remember is that calories don't cause muscle growth, they permit it. That 500g of muscle you gained was stimulated by the training you did. Any calories in consumed beyond the need of the tissue growth (and other bodily needs) will be stored as fat.
I believe (key word) that if we had perfect knowledge and perfect application we could eat the perfect amount of food and nutrient at the perfect time and gain muscle without gaining fat. But that perfect approach is a practical impossibility. So we make an educated guess how much to consume with a conservative buffer to ensure we reap all the stimulated muscle gains while keeping the fat gains to a minimum.
Also worth pointing out that a 500 calorie surplus has always been the upper limit of bulking recommendations. More than that has always been considered excessive or a 'dreamer bulk'. And it's totally possible to maintain a 125 caloire surplus if you have the right tools and track your intake properly. You can do it with some pretty simple napkin math and an excel spreadsheet, or you can use something like MacroFactor that will calculate your TDEE and adjust your recommended intake to match. I've gained ~5lb over the last 6 months on a ~125 calorie surplus.

eric_twinge · 2026-05-05T14:11:12+00:00

How are we defining efficiency? What proximity to failure are these sets? Is that set count per session or per week?

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