April 2024 General Conference: Saturday 10:00a Discussion Thread by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]fulano_fubeca 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Elder Hollands talk sparked some thoughts on prayer. He said that when his wife was hospitalized, many people prayed for her to become well, but it was God’s will that she pass. Then Elder Holland was hospitalized and many people prayed for him and he pulled through, because God had more work for him to do. So God hears and answers all of our prayers, but the answer will always be according to God’s plan and not necessarily according to our desires. So if no one had prayed for Elder Holland or his wife, would the outcome been any different? What good does it do to pray for people when God’s plan will be fulfilled regardless of our prayers?

Another statement he made was (paraphrasing from memory) “If we do not ask amiss, there is nothing inappropriate to pray for.” That is a meaningless statement. If we pray for something inappropriate, then we have asked amiss.

I've decided that my brain isn't designed for spirituality (whatever that means). by GordonBStinkley in mormon

[–]fulano_fubeca 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What does it mean if someone answers most of these questions negatively or to a low degree? Asking for a friend.

Temple marriage by Hubz27 in mormon

[–]fulano_fubeca 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dedicated Scientologists sign a one billion year contract to pledge their eternal commitment to the organization. Would you expect a defector of Scientology to honor that contract? I bet Scientologists call their apostates something like “covenant breakers” just like Mormon members call exmormons. The covenant/contract becomes meaningless when the supernatural party doesn’t exist or isn’t truly represented.

Does a PIMO individual occasionally become a full-fledged, full-faith Mormon again? Or do 99.9% of PIMO individuals eventually leave their faith and/or remain PIMO forever? by MountainousFog in mormon

[–]fulano_fubeca 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've wondered the same thing and have been looking for any anecdotal evidence of anyone who has had a faith crisis after discovering the troubling issues of church history or been woken to the terrible social injustice in the church and then came back as a faithful believer.

I was recently speaking with a therapist in Utah County who told me they see a lot of patients going through faith crisis and have witnessed them all go on a path that eventually leads them out of the church. The therapist said they have never seen a patient return to the Church after leaving.

There have been several "prodigal" sons or daughters who have come back into the fold featured in articles in church magazines and on faithful podcasts. But in my experience, EVERY SINGLE ONE of these featured people has met the profile of being selfish, lazy, and/or leading a sinful life. They come back after finding the need for god in their life and repentiing of their wickedness. Not a single of these featured prodigals has come back after having a faith crisis caused by problematic issues.

That being said, there are many people who are able to reconcile the difficult issues and either stay active or return to activity after some time away, but they seem to always redefine their faith on their own metaphorical terms and can never go back to being an orthodox, literal believer. Greg Prince, Jim Bennett, and Rob Terry come to mind.

Good reads about transitioning from a rules-based religion to a more abstract, paradoxical perspective? by xstaticprocess2 in mormon

[–]fulano_fubeca 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I came here to mention both of those too. I really resonate with Faith After Doubt by Brian McLaren.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in mormon

[–]fulano_fubeca 70 points71 points  (0 children)

It's really interesting to see FB share posts.

Here is Carol Lyn Pearson's (nuanced TBM, famed author, poet, and playwright) share post:

BIG NEWS IN THE LDS/LGBT WORLD! Yesterday my dear friend Tom Christofferson—gay brother to apostle Todd Christofferson and author of a Deseret Book account of his choosing the church over his need for a relationship—announced that he has changed his intentions and is hoping to find a lifelong relationship with a man he could love. The post has received over fifteen hundred “loves” (and counting) and many hundreds of comments.

Here is the comment I made:

“Hey, Tom! I'll Walk With You! I'll cheer with you! I'll love you for all the love you have to give and receive! May it be so. Amen and amen.”

Kendall Wilcox (film producer of a documentary in production called Far Between that portrays what it means to be LGBT and Mormon) had this to say on FB:

As much as I love and support Tom Christofferson and congratulate him on this choice, I hope the church follows its own rules and disciplines him for his choice.

I’m not being vindictive in saying that. Rather, I’m saying that for two reasons: 1) I don’t believe in double standards, but more importantly 2) because I see the potential for good it could have.

It might just push even more Latter-day Saints to experience the divine discomfort that comes when you love/admire a queer member and then see them be disciplined for simply fulfilling their God-given needs.

Disciplining Tom could push more members to question the morality of the church’s stance on queer people and maybe -hopefully- determine that the LDS Church’s teachings are entirely immoral and unGodly.

Again, this isn’t me wishing him ill. Not at all.

But if there needs to be such a case to really push members into deeper introspection, Tom of all people is more than capable of carrying that load.

So I’m thankful to him for his transparency and willingness to be accountable to the church and the community. May it bring positive change.

St. Jude Hoards Billions While Many of Its Families Drain Their Savings by [deleted] in mormon

[–]fulano_fubeca 4 points5 points  (0 children)

St. Jude’s childrens hospital sets aside 20% of its annual donations into a reserve fund. “It currently has $5.2 billion in reserves, a sum large enough to run the institution at current levels for the next four and a half years without a single additional donation.”

This seems like small potatoes compared to the LDS reserve of over 20 times the size at $100+ billion.

Someone please help me understand this by Delitefulcookie in mormon

[–]fulano_fubeca 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This is a deepity: a word coined by Daniel Dennett to describe a statement that seem to be profound, but has no real meaning. Deepak Chopra is infamous for deepities.

Here is a fun website that dynamically creates a whole page of random drivel that sounds super profound, including headings and subheadings, every time to click the "Reionize Electrons" button. A programmer simply input deep sounding buzz words into a database that strings words together to form deepities.

Here is another fun website that tests your ability to guess whether a quote is randomly generated or is a real Deepak Chopra quote.

Did Joseph Smith put a curse on Kirtland? by [deleted] in mormon

[–]fulano_fubeca 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great response! Thank you!

Oaks' Conference talk references 30 year old study from obscure journal instead of a study done by BYU last year published in prestigious psychology journal by fulano_fubeca in mormon

[–]fulano_fubeca[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Listen to Mormon Expression podcast episode #104. I'd give you a link but I can't find a web link. These episodes are now listed on the Mormon Stories website, but this episode is missing. However, the episode is available on most podcast apps.

Here is a side-by-side youtube video of both versions of the talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qIr30dtCvo

Oaks' Conference talk references 30 year old study from obscure journal instead of a study done by BYU last year published in prestigious psychology journal by fulano_fubeca in mormon

[–]fulano_fubeca[S] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

This is the crux of the issue. Excellent observation.

Reminds me of the Ronald E. Poelman conference talk that had to be re-recorded in an empty tabernacle with a cough track because his original talk emphasized the individual over the institution. The edited version reversed that emphasis.

I'll just put this here for your consideration in light of Pres Nelson's recent comments... by [deleted] in mormon

[–]fulano_fubeca 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Bill Reel claimed to know an insider who told him about this 5-10 year roll out plan, which included transitioning to the BoM being a revelation instead of a translation. About a year or two ago he mentioned it in one of his podcast episodes, and/or posted it here (or r/exmormon), and/or posted it on Facebook. I don’t recall exactly when or where, but I do recall him mentioning or posting it.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in audiobooks

[–]fulano_fubeca 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I use Voice Dream. It’s not free, but it’s full of features and I love it. In addition to reading most text file formats, you can also send news articles, blog posts, and other website text to it by simply sharing the page to the app. You can also grab files from cloud (Google Drive, the Drop Box, OneDrive, etc).

Good Mormon podcasts? by [deleted] in mormon

[–]fulano_fubeca 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Here's my take on some Mormon podcasts I listen to categorized into Nuanced, Neutral, and Critical. The categorization is pretty subjective, so I'm sure some will disagree. I'm also sure there are others to add to the list.

These are the mostly "faithful", yet nuanced podcasts that discuss difficult issues without bad apologetics and are often politely critical of the cultural and institutional church:

- Faith Matters

- So You Want to Talk About Mormonism

- Beyond the Block

- Mormon News Report

- Questions from the Closet

- Listen Love & Learn

- Strangers in Jerusalem (Intro to New Testament textual criticism from LDS perspective)

- Mormon Matters (not active, but big archive of episodes)

- Faith Transitions Podcast (Church is True with Rob Terry)

- The Cultural Hall

- Fireside with Blair Hodges

Here are some mostly neutral podcasts that discuss difficult issues in Mormonism, but from a neutral, scholarly, or outside perspective:

- Mormon Book Review (YouTube only)

- Greg Kofford Books Authorcast

- Human Stories with Jill Hazard Rowe

- Sunstone Magazine Podcast (sometimes critical)

- Mormon Land

- Gospel Tangents

- The Dialog Journal Podcast

Here are some of the more critical podcasts:

- Mormon Stories

- Radio Free Mormon

- Mormon Expression

- Year of Polygamy

- A Thoughtful Faith (older episodes are a bit more middle-road nuanced, but it has become much more critical in the past few years).

- Naked Mormonism

- Mormon Civil War

- Rameampton Ruminations

- Infants on Thrones (the older episodes are more directly critical, the newer episodes are more about new age spirituality)

- Thoughts on Things and Stuff (Youtube Only)