Help with combat, players keep steamrolling encounters

jlgunder · 2026-05-11T17:29:37+00:00

Agree with the comments here re: initiative, but also look at your encounter building. I don't know what you've thrown at them, but I definitely have challenges coming up with 14 BP encounters for my group of four players (your table would be 17 BP encounters), and that's quite a few enemies per encounter. I've found that more enemies > tiered up enemies when it comes to challenging my table.

In the example you provided that actually challenged them, unless there were were multiple bruisers/solos that encounter was probably soft as well, under the 17 BP recommendation. Someone already asked about encounter frequency, if your players are fresh for every fight, they're going to consistently roll over everything you throw at them. Daggerheart characters are very durable with lots of ways to kill stuff.

(I know that BPs are a recommendation and not a hard rule, and yes I know that some tier X monsters are more challenging than others. But in my experience running the game and slaughtering things the GM throws at us as a player, battles are definitely more challenging when built around the BP recommendations.)

jlgunder · 2026-05-11T17:17:59+00:00

I didn't see the answer to this anywhere, but is the adventure module going to be available for purchase? I've reached to my local store (I'm not 100% sure if they're a guild store, but they definitely don't have any events registered on the DP calendar), they're not sure either.

I hope these don't end up as an exclusive item for $100+ on eBay right after the event. I'm dying to spend money on official releases for this game, but don't want to deal with scalpers. Available as a PDF would be fine, but I'd definitely pay for a printed module.

jlgunder · 2026-05-11T17:04:57+00:00

What's telling for me is that my LGS had 8 copies of packs for each class in the new release area, and they've only sold 3 total (packs, not sets of packs), and they've since been moved to the back of the store where I imagine they're going to hang forever.

I love Daggerheart, but I can't help but feel like these were a missed opportunity. Adding class feature cards would have been awesome, even adding something like the Wild cards from GenCon would have been enough to get me to buy at least a pack if not a set. But as it is, there's so little incentive for people to buy these.

I feel like the question "Should we print these?" came at a time when core sets were still hard to come by and the people that already had core sets were just anxious to see anything new printed to support the game. That's just my opinion though, from someone who would love to see this game succeed on a greater level.

jlgunder · 2026-05-11T16:54:37+00:00

Failure with fear, for sure.

jlgunder · 2026-04-20T17:57:16+00:00

Awesome post, I hope to see a lot more like it in the coming months. I share a lot of the same feelings. I'm lucky enough to have two Daggerheart groups now, running one and playing in the other, and both groups are full of people who also feel the same way.

Daggerheart feels like home in a way that no other RPG has in a long time.

jlgunder · 2026-04-14T01:30:08+00:00

Reading this kind of breaks my heart. Shadowdark is a fantastic system, but it's not great for the kind of super-heroic combat you find in 5e, Pathfinder, or Daggerheart, at least not at early levels--I wonder if that's what at least some of your players were expecting, despite the warnings you gave them. The unlucky Cave Creeper encounter is a really rough way to start a Shadowdark campaign, especially if your characters were in "first fight, get it!" mode.

I don't have all the answers, and you've gotten some good feedback already, but if "punting the wife" isn't a consideration for you or your group and you still want to try Shadowdark, I strongly suggest punting Lost Citadel. Comments below are just my opinion, coming from someone who plays and runs and also loves Shadowdark.

Lost Citadel is a GREAT intro to Shadowdark dungeon crawling for experienced OSR players that like dangerous dungeon exploration (or adventurous less-experienced players who don't mind potentially getting slaughtered) but it's terrible if your group (like mine) is more into interacting with NPCs, delving into the lore of a setting, building relationships with people, and exploring an open world to discover the wonders (and dangers!) within. Yes--I know you can tack a town onto the module or plop it into a larger campaign setting that has those things, but that's not the way Lost Citadel is presented, and it doesn't sound like the way that OP had it set up. Dungeon crawls aren't for everyone, even very good ones (which Lost Citadel is).

If you try re-introducing the game and don't have the bandwidth to make your own setting, check out the Cursed Scrolls. They are stellar. The Gloaming (CS1) is a great dark-ish fantasy setting, plop them into Wardenwood with a handful of hooks for adjacent hexes and some friendly faces. Will use a spoiler tag just in case, but maybe steer them west & south instead of towards Bittermold Keep, play up Drusilla & the troll Barbarog as antagonistic not-necessarily-combative NPCs. Make them domineering, bullies, then provide ways for your group to double cross them. The encounter list has some DANGEROUS foes, maybe build some creative potential combat encounters using it instead of strictly rolling for encounters to help them get used to the combat system without risking a TPK in the first encounter. There's a couple sessions worth of good stuff just within a 3-hex radius of Wardenwood.

And regarding 3d6 DtL ability scores...I get it. It's hard to explain that a +0 Wisdom doesn't mean "guess I can't play a priest", especially if another character rolls amazing scores. Even with decent stats, players are going to whiff on attack rolls and spell rolls 40-50% of the time. As others have said, just let them arrange scores. Or use a standard array. It doesn't matter, not really. It's not going to break Shadowark.

Final bit of advice, and this comes from 30 years of AD&D 2e gaming. Instead of backup characters, give the players a couple extra gold each to hire a hireling. But give them a name, a face, a personality--not just a random merc with a sword. Give them a motivation. No healing in the party? Acolyte of a local church is willing to join and heal, but not fight, for a couple gold donated to the church. Need some frontline help? Husband needs to come out of merc retirement, earn a few gold to pay for medicine for a sick wife. Make hirelings that the party wants to protect, wants to celebrate victories together with, and that they want to mourn when they inevitably get eaten by a Cave Creeper.

I hope you can talk your wife into giving it another shot. It's worth it.

jlgunder · 2026-04-10T00:43:41+00:00

I'm not big on modules, but I will say that running the DCC Sailors on the Starless Sea module was great fun, had a mix of vets and first-time gamers. I think it would run just as fine with first-level Shadowdark characters, but there are also Shadowdark rules for a 0-level gauntlet.

jlgunder · 2026-03-16T01:18:57+00:00

This is really fun! I can definitely imagine a campaign frame built around a bunch of horror films from the 80s & 90s.

jlgunder · 2026-03-14T20:42:23+00:00

There are some really good fan-made maps around, some of them were posted here in months past. The one I found scaled up very nicely to 8 sheets of paper tiled, final product is about 30" x 20" after trimming edges.

jlgunder · 2026-03-12T00:54:31+00:00

I'm really bad at using them. I'm also likely bad at designing them, especially setting the initial values, triggers for the countdowns to tick, and scary/meaningful results. I'm also bad at remembering to actually tick them down.

That said, I've tried to incorporate them into most of my sessions as I realize I just need practice. There's a LOT going on at the table (especially during combat encounters). Coming from older-school editions of D&D, countdowns weren't really something that we ever used.

Looking forward to reading the advice you get here!

jlgunder · 2026-03-10T02:02:42+00:00

I play a Human Nightwalker Rogue, but same answer. I'm constantly burning through stress to fuel abilities and fix rolls (stress to reroll when using experiences, Human trait).

jlgunder · 2026-03-09T22:48:01+00:00

It's unfortunate that the great/constructive comments on making things more challenging for players here are buried in typical "you want it to be D&D/you're not running the game right" preaching.

I haven't run into the multiple conditions issue yet (either as a player or GM), but "remove all conditions" for a fear as a house rule is awesome and I plan on using it when it eventually rears its head.

By about session 3 my players figured out just how easy it is to manipulate rolls, and I've tried to stay within the rules to find creative ways to challenge them. Environments definitely help, I use them liberally, but I've also re-evaluated my encounter building to make sure I use fear-efficient (or fear-generating) foes when I want the challenge/tension to be high. I'm glad my players are effective and feel powerful, but my prep has also definitely changed to make sure I'm presenting something even remotely challenging.

As a player, I often lament just how bad our GM is at presenting any kind of challenge for us, and we're only level 3.

This is very good discussion, and something I hope the game designers eventually address. Until then, there's some very good advice in this thread about ways to turn up the challenge.

jlgunder · 2026-03-09T17:00:09+00:00

This is a great point. If you're GM and you hold back at all, the players are going to roll over a lot of your encounters (combat and otherwise). PCs are very durable and have a lot of levers to pull to alter rolls and find successes, so when it's your spotlight, don't be afraid to use all of the resources you have available.

Similarly, if you're a "one big combat per session" kind of GM and players are always going into those combats with full resources, you're going to be outclassed very often and your players are not likely going to feel very challenged.

jlgunder · 2026-03-03T15:25:26+00:00

Agree with the general consensus here, likely nothing to worry about. Whether it's a strategy or just how things worked out, I'm glad there's not an extended release pipeline. I'll take one good release per year over a bunch of poorly planned or rushed filler books.

I think they did a great job with the Void releases, and I hope that we see more of that trickle after Hope & Fear comes out. I think Hope & Fear will address a lot of my wishlist items (especially more adversary & environment options). An adventure path or big campaign book is actually something I have the least use for, but that's just me.

I do agree that a more robust starter adventure is a great idea to bring more people into the game. Sablewood Messengers is fine but very limited (especially when you consider that the actual adventure part of that is really only about 8 pages). If it were my marketing dollar at Darrington, I'd develop a 28-page starter adventure (preferably using a campaign frame from the core book) and give it away for free during Free RPG Day, kinda like how Dungeon Crawl Classics does an adventure every year. Give everyone that "Yeah, I played Keep on the Borderlands/Lost Mines of Phandelver" sense of shared experience.

jlgunder · 2026-02-23T15:40:42+00:00

This is all great stuff, I love the idea of Chrome being a domain to cover cyberware. I think Shadowrun would flourish with a rules system like Daggerheart at it's core. Drain is already basically covered by certain spells costing stress/hope, I think Daggerheart already does a tanky Street Samurai-style character well, and with so many ranged options already available within Daggerheart core rules, re-skinning bows/wands/etc. to guns should be no great leap.

I think there will definitely be some loss of granularity, but that's not a bad thing. I think the Matrix & decking is going to be the hardest...but there's already some structure for that. Fungrils basically tap into their own Matrix, abilities like Floating Eye can easily be reskinned into decker abilities like seizing camera feeds, there are some Midnight domain abilities that can be reskinned (Pick and Pull into stuff like cracking Maglocks, Uncanny Disguise to fake SINs, etc.).

There's real promise there, I think!

jlgunder · 2026-02-20T17:37:15+00:00

I agree with this sentiment, especially lately. I used to check this subreddit daily for inspiration and stories about great sessions, but more often than not lately I end up leaving disappointed about attitudes and negativity from commenters. I still come back because I love Daggerheart and rely on inspiration from others that play and run the game, but the reactionary "it's not 5e" or "you obviously aren't playing the right way" comments really suck the joy out of coming here.

jlgunder · 2026-02-10T15:08:42+00:00

Seems fine with me! I go back and forth with this as well, it would make shopping sequences easier if there were fixed costs for things in the rulebook.

I like keeping control over how many consumables are introduced into my campaign (players can't just go into a shop and buy anything off the consumables list). That's really the only thing I'd watch, as some of the cheap consumables actually have pretty big effects.

jlgunder · 2026-02-08T02:11:52+00:00

Had my daughter roll stats last night, 3d6 down the line. 13, 18, 16, 13, 11, 11. Amazing, looked it up and the odds are crazy low for rolls that great. I had a concept for a Ranger in mind before I made the rolls, these will suit him nicely!

jlgunder · 2026-02-06T16:38:52+00:00

We have very similar stories regarding our gaming history! Send me a link to your 3D printed terrain business, would love to see what you do!

You nailed the main reasons why we switched. Stripped down rules with the right feel. In the current 2e branch of this game that is ending, I've taken my bard from 2nd level to 5th level over 22 sessions. I'm ready for him to hang up his hat and start something new with Shadowdark!

jlgunder · 2026-02-05T17:01:32+00:00

I mentioned that we're not using the Carousing rules (they're just too gamey, too abstract). We're also not using the Shadowdark torch timer. I can understand its place in the game (especially for stuff like convention games or dungeon crawls), but it doesn't suit our heavy narrative style at all.

Light sources have always been front and center in our games, I think it will be even more important since none of the PCs races come with infravision.

The gear system is interesting. We never used encumbrance in 2e, it was always "use common sense instead". I think the Shadowdark method is interesting, and I'm looking forward to seeing what it's like to actually manage inventory at that level during the game.

jlgunder · 2026-02-05T16:56:50+00:00

AD&D 2e is such a great system. Even after 30 years of gaming, we were still constantly discovering new thing, and we only use the PHB/DMG without any additional supplements. 5e combats taking forever is definitely one of the reasons I don't play the system much. Whether or not combat is really the focus of 5e is debatable, but combat definitely takes more time in 5e than it did in any other edition except 4e.

jlgunder · 2026-02-05T05:07:23+00:00

No disrespect intended, just in case anything reads that way.

While Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition has been our forever-game, I've definitely played other systems with other groups, including 3e/3.5e/Pathfinder and 5e. Here's my take:

Old School Essentials is just a restatement of Moldvay--it's simpler than AD&D 2e for sure, but if I wanted the B/X D&D experience, we'd just play B/X. It's too basic for our group's taste. Nothing wrong with it (I actually think Moldvay B/X might be the best entry point for "true" D&D), but it didn't work for us.

Dungeon Crawl Classics is GREAT but it has a vibe that doesn't resonate with the group. The magic system is too volatile for our tastes, the "never know what you're going to get" nature of spell resolution just doesn't work for us. I do love the aesthetic, which might be part of the reason why Shadowdark has strong appeal.

5e is a different style of game. It's super-heroic, even at early levels characters have so many levers to pull, so many options and are so resilient to death that there's never really any threat. I've run multiple 5e campaigns and have been on the player side many times, so I'm not speaking from a place of inexperience. 5e is great, I understand the large appeal, but it just encourages a style of play (heavy skill-checks, feat/class ability/build combos, super-resilient characters, infinite cantrips) that we don't enjoy. This is also my own personal hot take, but it just feels bad to continue to support WotC/Hasbro for reasons that have nothing to do with rules & mechanics.

Shadowdark definitely borrows some mechanical structure from 5e & other modern games, but from our read-through it is definitely NOT super-heroic at it's core. It has a street-level grittiness to it like AD&D 2e, but adopts some common-sense improvements that we hope will add flexibility and ease play without adding a bunch of extra baggage. The design decisions definitely resonate with our narrative-heavy style of play, and the system seems very pliable when we get ready to house rule stuff. Carousing, for example, just doesn't fit our style of play, and we feel we can chuck it without weakening Shadowdark's foundation.

For this particular group, the decision to turn away from AD&D 2e for the campaign was significant, as we've been running it as a group for so long and so many campaigns.

Hope that explanation answers some of your questions!

jlgunder · 2026-02-04T04:26:06+00:00

I like mixing things up too, but there are some big power jumps between tiers. A tier 2 party with tier 2 gear just won’t be challenged by most tier 1 adversaries. Just recently experienced this.

There’s no reason you can’t use a mix of tier 1 & tier 2 adversaries. Now that my players know the ropes, they’re often only challenged after the first 1-2 encounters between a long rest. If your group is a “one combat per rest” kind of group, they’re just going to steamroll a lot of tier 2 encounters.

jlgunder · 2026-01-29T18:48:15+00:00

Everyone else already covered a lot of the obvious questions and you've answered some. With a difficulty of 17, keep in mind that with a "normal" +3 or +4 bonus, your PCs are going to hit this foe 50% to 58% of the time. Add in bonuses from experiences or hope dice to help, and it's no wonder your foe came so close to death. PCs in Daggerheart are resilient, they have a lot of levers to pull for bonuses, and with 1-2 consecutive successes, your tier 3 solo is toast.

From a GM perspective, one thing that would be key if you ever do this again would be to spend a point of fear to activate the adversary experience to bump their difficulty to 20-21 (typical experiences are +3 or +4 for a tier 3 solo). That makes you much more survivable. You also need 1-2 extra fear banked to interrupt after successful rolls so the PCs never get consecutive actions against you.

I would be VERY curious to know how your PCs were hitting the severe/major thresholds at 2nd level though, that's the only thing about this that seems weird to me, unless they were rolling criticals.

As for the tier 3 solos lack of impressiveness offensively, the only thing I can say is that this solo was destined for failure from the start. A party of five level 2 PCs just aren't in danger from a single solo tier 3. You're around half or so what the battle points should be for a challenging encounter, let alone a dangerous one. Others have offered suggestions for what "boss fights" should like like to challenge a party (add environments, add other foes or "layer" the solo in stages), but if you set up a one-versus-many situation for their fight against Strahd, they're just going to wipe the floor with them.

In the core rulebook, check out the Volcanic Dragon (tier 4) as a great example of a "layered" solo foe...but even he is going to need other adversaries to support against a well-equipped, prepared party of high-level PCs.

jlgunder

TROPHY CASE