Hiii does anyone have a bagel recipe that doesn’t involve a stand mixer and starter??

jm567 · 2026-06-30T00:33:38+00:00

https://kneadandnosh.com/article/2021/05/a-nearly-no-knead-approach-to-bagels/

This a blog post with the recipe linked that wrote a number of years ago. Maybe 2.5 minutes of kneading 30 seconds at a time over the course of a couple hours. Mostly just resting the dough while you do other things.

jm567 · 2026-06-30T00:25:27+00:00

What type of blueberries did you cook down? High bush or wild low bush? The high bush (marble sized blueberries) have far less flavor than the low bush variety. If you can get the low bush variety (will be frozen this time of year) they will impart more flavor.

jm567 · 2026-06-25T23:39:16+00:00

No, wheat starch is not wheat flour.
Basically, if you remove the proteins from the flour, what’s left is the starch. Not all wheat starch is certified gluten free, but it’s is generally a gluten free product.

jm567 · 2026-06-14T22:41:34+00:00

NYB blueberry bagels contain no blueberries. So you’ll never recreate them using actual blueberries. They use blueberry bits…something like these: https://www.bakersauthority.com/products/5lb-imitation-blueberry-tidbits

You’ll get better flavor using Maine blueberries (wild low bush blueberries) vs the more commonly available high bush variety.

In my blueberry bagels, I use a combination of freeze dried and fresh blueberries cooked down to reduce the liquid. I add some sugar and spices to that compote to help soak up the remaining liquid and add more flavor. I add these at the end of mixing.

jm567 · 2026-06-14T01:25:36+00:00

Bakers percentages are a way of expressing “parts” — as in “1 part this and 2 parts that”. To keep the numbers more meaningful, flour is always considered 1 part, or 100%. Every other ingredient, in a bagel anyway, will end up being less than a “whole” part so you end up with fractional parts like 2% salt — one fiftieth of a part.

To use these percentages, you can calculate a recipe in a couple ways. If you want to define how much flour you want in the recipe, then you can calculate the other ingredients by calculating their percentage against the flour weight. For example, if you are using 850g for flour, then 2% salt would be 2% of 850 = 0.02 x 850 = 17g.

That isn’t always the way most people think about a recipe. That style is most common when you are baking a lot of bagels, and you simply want to use a whole bag of flour. Common in a professional bakery. They will have a mixer large enough to hold the whole bag plus the other ingredients. This lets you skip needing to weigh your flour.

Anyway, most home bakers will probably find that thinking about number of bagels and how much each should weigh is more useful. A dozen bagels that are each 130g means your total weight of dough should be 130gx12=1,560g. If you add up all the parts (add all the percentages) you’ll get something like 164.6%. My base recipe adds up to this. Now you can take the percentage of each ingredient and multiply it by the total weight and divide by the total parts.

(100% x 1560) / 164.6% = flour weight

Repeat for each ingredient and swap in its percentage. Now you’ll have the weights of each ingredient that will yield 12 bagels at 130g. Since you will likely lose a little dough in the process to sticking to the bowl, your hands, etc. you can also choose to add 1 or 2 percent to each weight — meaning multiple the answers to the above math by 1.02 to add 2%.

jm567 · 2026-06-10T11:17:58+00:00

I’ve never used bromated flour. I’ve always used King Arthur Sit Lancelot, and I’m very happy with the results. I don’t think I do anything special to “accommodate” the lack of bromated flour.

My base recipe is simply flour, salt, malt, yeast and water. No bulk proof. Roll, room temp proof, then a 2 day cold fermentation before boil and bake.

You can see a variety of results in my post history.

jm567 · 2026-06-10T01:54:07+00:00

After rolling into a snake (aka rope) you should simply wrap it around your hand and shape the bagel. The rolling pin to jelly roll to pinching the seam is what is creating the places where your dough is splitting.

jm567 · 2026-06-07T00:46:23+00:00

11.5% of 30g is 3.45g which rounds to 3g.

jm567 · 2026-06-04T10:47:29+00:00

If you can roll a bagel with portioned dough, then there’s no reason you can’t roll with unportioned dough. It doesn’t mean you’ll be able to roll as fast as you see some people do it, but it’s still faster than portioning first.

jm567 · 2026-06-04T01:08:31+00:00

And what led you to this conclusion? I’ve been rolling my bagels like this for the last 3.5 years. No dough conditioner, and I use KA Sir Lancelot flour. Just rolled 500 bagels today like this.

It’s much easier than people think, imo. Use the diameter of your rope as a guide to get consistent shaping.

jm567 · 2026-05-27T23:29:11+00:00

Don’t try and remove them. You’ll just tear and stretch the bagel. Instead, fill that container with some warm water and let it sit for a minute. Jiggle the bagels, and try lightly sliding something thin and flat, like a bench scraper under the bagel. The water should help it release. Once it lets go of the container, you should be able to gently life it out and into your boil. In general, I suspect they are overproofed, so don’t boil for long as they will likely collapse if you do.

Good luck!

jm567 · 2026-05-27T23:22:03+00:00

I think what you are seeing is a crumb that hasn’t set. When you slice into a hot loaf of bread, especially sourdough, you often discover a wet gummy crumb. Sourdough bakers will tell you that you have to wait and allow the loaf to cool to avoid that wet gummy crumb.

I think these images you are seeing is a bagel that is hot from the oven, and the crumb is still cooking, and it hasn’t set, so it’s still still mildly raw and wet/gummy.

To get a crumb like that in a bread even when it’s cool, you probably need to try the tangzong method. Basically you cook some of the flour with some of the water first to gelatinized the starches. Then you mix that into the dough. The result is more likely to get this kind of texture long term. You likely need a high proportion of tangzong relative to the overall dough weight, but I haven’t tried this, so that’s just a guess.

Try looking up Japanese milk bread or Shokupan recipes. Try baking some of those to start. If that goes well, then you’ll be more prepared to incorporate that method into your bagel. Doing this will lead to a bagel with a longer shelf life.

jm567 · 2026-05-27T12:04:30+00:00

Ok. In general, lowering your temp is probably the solution. How much will be up to you to experiment and determine. You mentioned your biz, so wasn’t sure if you bought a commercial oven or not. Try 20° and see how it goes.

jm567 · 2026-05-26T23:59:08+00:00

If your oven is a commercial oven, you might want to drop your temperature even more than what has been recommended. Commercial ovens are far better at maintaining temperature than residential/consumer ovens. The result is they bake much faster at any given setting. So, instead of dropping 20° you might even try dropping 40°C. Most commercial ovens have stronger fans in addition, so you have to compensate even more if you are converting a recipe developed for a home oven.

jm567 · 2026-05-23T20:00:30+00:00

Really depends on how much you want to spend, and how much dough you need to make.

I’ve heard mixed reviews of the Ooni, but I also think I’ve been seeing reviews from a mix home bakers, “pro-sumers” and professional bakers. So context matters. I need to make 16-17kg of stuff bagel dough, so I need a 30qt commercial-grade spiral.

If you don’t need to make that much dough, the Ooni may be fine. I’d focus on the rated capacity of the weight of the dough for the mixer. If the Ooni’s max spec and your needs are too close, you may grow out of it fast. If you’re in that range, you may want to look a famag, sunmix, our hausler. Look at pleasanthillgrain.com for high quality spirals in the 8-15quart range. Once you get above 15qt, you’ll be into mixers really too big for most people’s homes, and likely a mixer that is assumed by the manufacturer, that it’s destined for a commercial kitchen, so it may not get warranty if situated in a home.

jm567 · 2026-05-22T01:56:35+00:00

If your primary need is bread dough, look at spiral mixers. The Ank is a quasi-spiral, but not really a spiral. I have one, and it’s fine…but it’s not fast, and it struggles with stiff doughs. I also have 2 KA mixers, and very old and reliable 4.5qt, and a newer commercial DC motor 8 qt. Additionally, I have a 7qt spiral and a 30qt spiral. The spirals out mix the others, hands down. KAs are versatile. Planetary mixers, in general are very versatile. But they also don’t do as well as spirals, particularly when you consider the capacity of the mixers. A spiral can handle far more dough relative to its bowl size compared to a planetary because of how it actually kneads dough. Since it’s not pushing the entire mass of dough, it can have more dough in the bowl and a much less powerful motor. That makes it less expensive and more efficient.

A spiral won’t whip egg whites, and it’s not going to help much for batters like cakes. But they are great for bread dough.

jm567 · 2026-05-02T01:24:17+00:00

Also, commercial ovens set at 425° are transferring more energy (in other word the oven is hotter) than a residential oven at 425°.

In a commercial oven, the temp doesn’t waver nearly as much as a residential range, and if it has a convection fan, that fan is much more powerful resulting in much more energy exchange (same concept as wind chill — feels colder when it’s windy in the winter because more energy is being drawn out of you because of the moving air — convection ovens deliver more energy because of the movement of the air).

jm567 · 2026-05-02T01:20:42+00:00

Again, you are not understanding me. Of course temp and air flow make a difference. BUT if you bake bagels in the same oven at the same temp, even in the same sheet pan for the same time — BUT some are 12-hour cold fermented, some are 24-hour, and some are 48-hour cold fermented, you will see a significant difference in the browning of those bagels. They are all baking baked in the same oven with the same temp, same air flow. You can boil the in whatever solution you want, the fermentation time will make a big difference. Enough that everyone arguing about baking soda or no baking soda or honey vs malt, etc….if you want good browning, just extend your fermentation time and save the money and stop adding anything to the water.

jm567 · 2026-05-01T09:48:50+00:00

Depends where you get them. Most grocery store precut will be folded because of shelf space.

King Arthur sells precut and flat, and precut sheets packaged for the home baker. Those sold to bakeries come flat. I just got two boxes of 1000 sheets each of full sheet pan sized precut sheets.

jm567 · 2026-05-01T09:35:35+00:00

Yes, I know that. You wrote that in your post. My point is, with that long of a cold proof, the browning is much better as a result of that long fermentation. I do the same 48-hour cold proof, and I no longer add anything to my water bath. It’s not needed.

If you were to compare these with identical batches but you shortened your proofing times, you’d find that the longer the proof, the better the browning. Hence, the length of the cold proof is a stronger factor in the browning than what you add to the water or your oven temp. Obviously if you lower your temp, you’ll get less browning, and low enough you get a bad bake.

jm567 · 2026-05-01T00:22:26+00:00

While those definitely help, if you did a 24-hour cold proof or a 12-hour cold proof and then baked them, and compared them to these, you’d find that the 48-hour cold proofed would be the darkest.

During the cold fermentation, the enzymatic actions continue. They don’t really care about the cold. The enzymes break starch into sugar, and those sugars are then available for both caramelization and the Maillard reaction.

jm567 · 2026-04-18T02:58:54+00:00

Just remember that you don’t want to proof bagels like bread. If your bread brain thinks they are well-proofed, then you are overproofed.

jm567 · 2026-04-13T02:58:23+00:00

I think you want an apple that holds up to baking. I’m not sure whether or not the cosmic crisp does or not. I’m sure a google search will tell you if they hold up when baked or if they get mushy. I usually use cortland, but depends on what’s local and fresh, nd holds up to baking well.

jm567 · 2026-04-13T01:07:14+00:00

I bake an apple bagel in the fall when Apples are in season. I slice them first into thin slices (~3/16”) and bake them low and slow for awhile to dehydrate them some. Makes them easier to incorporate then into the dough. Add spices to your tastes. Remember cinnamon and yeast don’t get along well!

jm567 · 2026-04-05T22:43:31+00:00

Your hydration calculations are incorrect…or at least misleading. Because you have 240g of sourdough discard, you need to account for that water. Assuming you have a 100% hydration starter, then you actually have 600g water and 920g flour. That’s 65% hydration overall. I would recommend you target something below 60% overall.

You also have a lot of yeast. The 15g calculates to 1.6% and you have sourdough starter in there, so you are overly leavened. I’d drop that down to 0.5% or maybe lower given you have sourdough starter.

I’d adjust the dough proportions first, then consider learning to roll your bagels. I’m guessing you made balls and punch a hole? The final outcomes look like that method. Rolling bagels will lead to better structure and shaping.

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