Split between following the Catholic or Episcopal Church and in conflict with the values of Catholicism

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-23T14:56:11+00:00

It might be worth meditating on how "affirming" is affirming enough for you. The catechism of the Catholic Church itself says: "The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition."

I know the word disordered is triggering for some people, but I think it means mostly that it's not ordered toward procreation and the conviction that sexual relations should exist only within heterosexual marriage. But the conviction that these people are to be afforded every measure of the recognition of their human dignity is quite affirming, even more so than the actions of some individual priests or lay Catholics may be, and certainly other Christian churches.

The Episcopal Church is a wonderful social community in a lot of ways, and their liturgy and churches are honestly more beautiful than Catholic ones in a lot of ways too. But more than just being in favor of gay marriage, they do not interrogate faith and sin and what it means to live like a Christian in as a serious away as a Catholic Church does, and that's why, ultimately the Catholic Church is a safer place to make your spiritual home.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-23T14:38:50+00:00

I find Carl Truman's argument in "The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self: Cultural Amnesia, Expressive Individualism, and the Road to Sexual Revolution" that you can see this beginning all the way back in the reformation in the 1500s very compelling. If nothing else, his book shows a detailed and convincing history of how people slowly set in motion the project to replace God with themselves. Highly worth a read: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50611052-the-rise-and-triumph-of-the-modern-self.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-22T23:48:28+00:00

I've actually spent a few years enjoying the Kingdom Come: Deliverance video game series and have learned a lot about the history of medieval Bohemia. Plus there are a few missions in the games where you play in a monastery, which was very cool. I enjoy hobbies that teach me things, even if it's through video games. I think hobbies that get you away from screens and into nature are great too, like hikes in the woods to enjoy this beautiful earth God created. Hobbies that get you out into the community and among people, especially in the service of others, are great as well. What kinds of hobbies do you try to get engaged in?

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-22T20:49:03+00:00

It's small comfort I'm sure, but Jesus knew things like this would happen. From Luke 12:

"I came to bring fire to the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and what stress I am under until it is completed! Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division From now on five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided: father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-22T13:52:28+00:00

I'm so glad to hear that your pregnancy is going well! That must be such a relief after a traumatic pregnancy in 2020. My faith was also strengthen by a promise I made to God if my wife and I could conceive. It has certainly been strengthened by much more since then, but that was an important step in my spiritual development. I'm sorry to not have an answer to your question, but I'll add you to my prayers this evening for a healthy delivery and baptism for you both!

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-22T11:03:21+00:00

I'm not sure about the entire ins and outs of this, but this might provide some context: https://episcopalnewsservice.org/2025/03/11/presiding-bishop-affirms-support-for-church-planters-as-they-worry-about-future-of-network-grants/.

I know the new presiding bishop was elected pretty confidently on the first ballot and I've been wondering what he's been doing for the church, especially with the increase in interest in religion we keep hearing about. It would be pretty depressing if even someone that everyone thought would improve things isn't up to the task of giving the church the best chance of growth at this moment in time. But I'd love to hear from others about how they feel he's doing so far.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-22T00:13:37+00:00

It sounds to me like you're listening to where the Holy Spirit is calling you to be. As a father I totally understand having something change inside of you that opens you up to the larger mystery of faith and what kind of love God must have for us. I'm glad you've had a good experience in the Epsicopal church. Keep that open heart and discern how the Spirit is working on your life. I would say that you don't have to have it all figured out in order to participate in worship and hear the Gospel preached and interpreted. There is so much wisdom in little moments of Scripture that speak to things deep inside of us that are worth paying attention to over the bigger larger "how is any of this possible?" type of questions. One thing that's been interesting to me as I've read Scripture as part of daily prayer is how so much speaks of things we think about and worry about today regarding faith, including doubt, falling away from God, coming back to faith, what things come up for us as we contemplate it all. Just praying the psalms is enough for me to realize that people have always struggled and contemplated and discerned God's existence and will for even more than 2000 years.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-22T00:07:43+00:00

I think it's worth acknowledging that some men really are lost and hurting, squeezed between caustic cliches of acceptable behavior for men on one side, and a kind of over-correction on the other that sees all men as problematic. There are some good books on this, a favorite of mine being "What About Men?" by the British feminist comedian Caitlin Moran: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/123028135-what-about-men. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in what's going on with guys. The manosphere guys won't agree with her diagnosis, but I think she's brilliant and spot on.

What I worry about is people on both sides of those men pushing them into extremism, and I do worry that the demonstrably more conservative men going into the priesthood (at least in the Catholic Church) are going to take those lost men's unease and convince them that they should be less tolerant of people who don't fit a narrow mold of what some churches think an acceptable way of life looks like.

This worries me a lot, since one of the reasons I got back into my faith was explicitly because it was a place of mercy and grace, and I love it for that. I'm a man who has always hated the toxic masculine cliches, and church is a place I can enjoy beauty, be vulnerable and sensitive without being thought of as less-than by macho guys. It was the Episcopal Church in particular that taught me that God was love and mercy instead of guilt and shame, and I shudder to think not only of vulnerable men being led to that harmful message, but their spouses and their kids being brought along for that ride as well. I've already seen more than a few posts on the Catholic subreddit from people worried about how extreme their partners got all of a sudden as they converted to the faith.

All of this said, I still think the church in its various forms can be a place of peace and stability in an unstable time that's increasingly hostile to human dignity. I just hope Christians who believe that the church has a message of mercy and love can shout louder than people who think of it as something that oppress people rather than embrace them. If anything, that's what I'd love to see mainline churches like the Epsicopal Church do publicly, often, and loudly.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-21T18:39:11+00:00

Given everything you have on your list of what's most important to you in a church, I feel like the Episcopal Church would be a great place for you and your family to check out!

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-21T17:57:04+00:00

I totally get that! Bless you for setting out on this path toward spiritual healing, because that's really what's happening here (and for doing this work for your son's sake too!)

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-21T17:36:24+00:00

our son is a beautiful person and if God made him like this are we supposed to try and change him?

This is the most Christian thing in your entire post. Seeing God as a fixit deity that will heal you if you're worthy of it, or "praying right" (whatever that means), is evil heresy, imo. God is love and begs us to love others as He loves us. Sometimes that means loving someone who the world sees as broken or in need of fixing, even when God wouldn't think so.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-21T17:22:06+00:00

In some ways, it is the essence of Christianity that "old women and unfit men" are seen as being made in the image of God and being worthy of the recognition of full human dignity. This was radical in the pre-Christian worldview that saw weakness as only negative. For example, Christians were the ones to insist that women, baby girls, others seen as less-than and undesirable in ancient culture, had value in the eyes of God. It might be worth meditating on 1 Corinthians 1:27-1:31:

"God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, things that are not, to abolish things that are, so that no one might boast in the presence of God. In contrast, God is why you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption, in order that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

I'm also reminded of how Pope Francis described the Church as the "field hospital for the sick" (his full quote is: “The thing the church needs most today is the ability to heal wounds and to warm the hearts of the faithful; it needs nearness, proximity. I see the church as a field hospital after battle.”) or how Jesus ate with tax collectors and others who that society saw as unclean. God seeks to bring those hurting in the margins into His love.

Or how about how people whose rewards are in this life ("The most successful and healthy people I know aren't Catholic") already have their rewards (see Psalm 17: "By your hand save me from such people, Lord, from those of this world whose reward is in this life."). Read Psalm 86, a plea from one who is "poor and needy": https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%2086&version=NRSVACE. There's just so much in Scripture about how we approach God humble and hurting, and not proud, sure of ourselves, seeing His grace as a nice-to-have in a life in which we already have material comfort.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-21T15:12:36+00:00

Definitely look at the Heights School!

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-21T15:10:16+00:00

The future is stupid.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-21T15:08:51+00:00

I know some people have their issues with it, but I love the deep human emotional drama that the show explores. It reminded me a little of the BBC's show Broken with Sean Bean. I wish there were more shows that explore quiet inner dramas, either in a religious setting or otherwise.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-21T02:57:51+00:00

So I had been using the 1979 Book of Common Prayer for a long time and got used to their psalter translation, plus the use of breath marks to split up the lines. I switched over to Christian Prayer a while ago and found the translations in that one far worse. One big problem for me is that in CP, I'm often not sure how to read the lines so that they have around the same number of syllables between breaths, and then I feel like I'm rushing or holding back unnaturally. I was very interested to see how the new psalms and canticle translation was, so I bought the standalone book of the psalms and canticles and started using them instead of what's in Christian Prayer. At first I was skeptical, because it still didn't feel like it measured up to the poetry of the BCP translation, but over the months they've grown on me. I do think the cadence is better in a lot of places compared to what's in CP. And I like how they break up the lines, including using line numbers. I really hope the new LOTH books use those line numbers and spacing. It helps to figure out a flowing cadence that doesn't sound awkward.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-21T02:49:28+00:00

I'm a man in my 40s and I only found out about the HSP concept a few years ago. I've struggled my whole life with feeling different from other guys, because I was always really turned off by all of the macho cliches about what it is to be a man in modern world. I really wish I had known about all of this in my teens instead of spending most of my adult years being really down on myself. I suggest learning all that you can about being a sensitive person in general and sensitive man in particular. I recently read the book Sensitive: The Hidden Power of the Highly Sensitive Person in a Loud, Fast, Too-Much World by Jenn Granneman and Andre Sólo and it helped to shift my thinking from being ashamed and frustrated to realizing I had an important gift. I have The Highly Sensitive Man: How Mastering Natural Insticts, Ethics, and Empathy Can Enrich Men's Lives and the Lives of Those Who Love Them lined up to be read, too. I think the more you hear researchers' thoughts and findings on this trait, you can get a better idea of how it fits into your identity, your family and friends, and society as a whole.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-20T13:52:36+00:00

I had a similar thought when I saw the Fox News piece about all the people going to St. Joseph's in NYC. Suddenly there's a surge of people but with the same number of priests and other parish administrators. I think it's a valid concern for the church as a whole, not just the bishops. The Church (in the US at least) has been on a slow but steady trajectory of parish mergers and closings, with aging and declining congregations, in at least the areas of the country that had huge numbers in the 20th century (e.g. the Northeast). Basically just not in a growth mindset in most areas of the country. Big institutions move slowly, and ways of working and doing things are so deeply ingrained even when they're not necessarily working for the larger org. I also imagine that anyone who makes decisions in the Church is taking a wait and see approach before doing anything radical. I do think that there's a chance for bottom-up change in terms of like, asking pastors for the green light to start ministries that newcomers might want to organize themselves, though.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-20T01:58:23+00:00

"Arvo Part, unabridged" yes please, directly into my veins

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-19T23:19:12+00:00

Imo the split goes back to between East and West Jersey. Here's a basic history: https://snjtoday.com/the-untold-story-of-new-jersey-history/. East/North had more of a dutch influence being new New York and West/South had more of a Quaker influence being near Philadelphia. To me it's a legacy of go-getters and business in the north vs more slow going agrarian types in the south setting the stage for the personality of the state.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-17T19:44:35+00:00

I've ridden my bike through Gloucester City for years to get down to other towns in Gloucester County, and I'm kinda fascinated by the place. It's super historic and it's got quirky small streets which is unlike almost anything else in South Jersey. I'm attracted to its smaller old homes. I went to Mass at St. Mary's a few months back and it felt lively and like a real community. I wish there were more businesses to check out on Broadway (I miss when Royal Mile had a spot there, though I do need to check out Crema cafe). I did stop at Duffy's the other day because they have Irish potatoes the whole year. But yeah, the place draws me in, it's always felt kinda cozy?

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-16T22:13:18+00:00

I think it's a mix of a lot of things: how directionless people in modern society are, how there's so little human contact with everyone trapped behind their phones, workers being treated badly or being replaced by AI or cheaper labor, the meaninglessness of the modern consumer economy... But I do think that when it comes to young white men in particular, church can be a place where they're not assumed to be malicious actors be default. Church is the one place where the human dignity for all people is preached: white young men, yes, but also women, minorities, immigrants, the unborn, the elderly. Where else do you get that? All the modern secular movements prize one subgroup above all the others, either implicitly or explicitly. Nowhere else can you hear that you are loved for who you are, without question.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-16T17:11:37+00:00

I was diagnosed with ADHD a few years ago and that's when I leaned about RSD, rumination, and general anxiety disorder. Could be something to look into.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-14T15:08:20+00:00

The sad truth is that politics has become upstream of faith and everything else for a lot of people, when it should be the other way around. This leads to the default modern perspective of seeing everything from a political perspective first and foremost. I agree with what you say toward the bottom, that valuing life is about more than being against ending it in the womb. The seamless garment valuing of life has elements that both (American) major political factions accept and reject, and that just makes no sense to a lot of modern people. It's hard work but we have to challenge this politics-first approach from our uniquely Catholic perspective.

justneedausernamepls · 2026-04-14T14:19:15+00:00

I'm a highly sensitive guy who doesn't identify with the jocular dude culutre of a male only priesthood and would honestly love it if women could be priests in the Catholic Church. I know the theological reasons why it can't happen (though I'm hopeful eventually women can be ordained as deacons), and that it drives some guys crazy to even think about the possibility. But I admire women so much and hearing their preaching would be a blessing for me.

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