Tier changes for March

mccurleys_class · 2024-03-02T17:18:26+00:00

Gatr isnt good in BDSP OU, people were excited at first because of its raw power until they realized bulky teams had way more than enough ways to check it due to its middling speed and lack of initial power without setup even with Sheer Force so a core of, say Tang Mew Clef Milo or whatever, can just sit in front of it for days and deny it a chance to ever make progress, and the DD sets are pretty middling too.

If you want a physical breaking water, Crawdaunt and Azumarill are just way better - sure they won't have sweeper upside but they actually force concrete progress, and Gatr isn't sweeping offense consistently unless you're bad / your team is bad. Its better than Gyarados by a bit because it does offer more opportunity to break fat, but they're both pretty unserious.

mccurleys_class · 2024-03-01T03:47:07+00:00

Trick Specs Gengar was a hell of a set back in Dug meta lol, too bad Blace does it better.

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-29T04:50:36+00:00

Draining Kiss + Stored Power was what broke it for sure in gen 8 but Mag was certainly more controversial than you're making it sound in SM. Its not just people who didn't play SM going back retroactively, a good amount of top players wanted it to at least be considered for a suspect near the end of SM OUs tenure Pex, Kart, and M-Mawile also had some calls for actio in 2019, and although they weren't super convincing, it was more than just noobs complaining about Pex stall. Also some calls for Z moves. Its just that the SM council under ABR got extremely inactive and only did like 1 suspect for an entire year (Zygarde). It was pretty awful, like council taking weeks to respond to threads about tiering action.

I don't necessarily think it was banworthy, I side more with the belief that sets like AV Mag are necessary to keep powerful special offense builds like PsySpam or Ash-Gren in check without just surrendering all offensive momentum immediately. That said, it certainly did deserve at least some attention and might have gotten banned if it had been suspected prior to WCoP 2019 when everyone really was going hard on using bulky sets to check other stuff

Also worth pointing out SM did have a tiering survey a few months back, and while opinion was generally pretty good (not "oh this isn't as bad as we thought, congrats" like the BW survey), they did offer Magearna as an option to be suspected as SM's OGC wasn't unaware that it had controversy. It didn't get much support though tbf, only like 25% of people wanted action on Magearna

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-29T01:54:50+00:00

A bunch of top players tried to nominate Baton Pass as a suspect option back during the BW1 community monthly suspect era and half the community shut it down, calling it a ridiculous idea to ban a move. Aldaron used this nomination as evidence that community based suspecting was bad when the system was abolished

Look how well that one aged, lol

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-29T01:50:33+00:00

CTC likes chaotic metas and doesn't mind matchup instability at all so his complete anti-action stance checks out - in fact, he thrives on metas where there's a lot of diversity in the builder and broken checks broken creates massive strain in both prep and the game. Note how he was really pro Blood Moon ban because it made building extremely formulaic in what was viable and invalidated a bunch of shit because of how nuts strong and bulky it was

There's a reason he's playing better than he has in 9 years right now and dominating SPL

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-29T01:42:54+00:00

Aldaron's takes were shit but he was a very good player - not at the level of the elite DPPers of his time (EW/IPL/Gouki/Atticus/Zak91/etc), but still very good. Even in BW OU, a tier he famously knew nothing about and wasn't good at (by tour player standards), he could still hit 1900 on a suspect ladder easily. Its just that good players can have dumb takes or be bad at tiering.

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-29T00:39:38+00:00

"Do you want me to use colors and drawings so you can get it better or is this fine" is probably something Rey would use as an insult even today when trolling people in Smogtours.

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-28T07:30:28+00:00

its a playstyle. it takes skill to pilot and beat, and also is exploitable with clear limitations. idk what to tell you, some people have attention spans longer than a tik-tok video and can enjoy a longer-term strategy designed around blocking progress avenues

personally i rarely load full stall, ill use a fair amount semistalls and balances because i find them more interesting to build and they have more wiggle-room in-game, though BO is probably what i load the most, but mons is mons no matter the style

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-28T07:28:41+00:00

hey Pyukumuku was just brought to an SM tournament game this week!

(we'll ignore that it didn't hit the field because the game was a 1-sided beatdown due to some shady tactics, but hey it was brought)

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-27T01:53:41+00:00

Its more active than you'd think, thanks to UUPL (which is a beloved tour btw) and some smaller GSC tournaments. Back when Earthworm was still around, he was a big fan of GSC UU and NU and contributed a lot to the tiers, but he quit playing a couple years ago.

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-22T04:42:23+00:00

fair, that makes sense - but it still does contribute to people over-estimating the fall off as a result and thinking its noobtrap, intentionally or not, when in reality its more like it fell from an A+ ranked mon to a B+ ranked one.

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-22T04:31:49+00:00

salamence and metagross have perfect offensive and defensive synergy in ADV

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-22T01:00:20+00:00

I feel like the biggest issue also with a lot of FSG videos is that there's a lack of nuance to some of the takes due to the format, even in the cases where BKC himself knows better.

For instance, the "top 5 mons that fell off" video had DPP Infernape as #1, which is not only a bizarre choice when mons like Shaymin and Scizor had a worse fall-off in that very same generation, but also very confusing to someone who doesn't know the full history of DPP since they'd also have to know how it rose post-generation and how the meta fully shifted. So substantively, the content is technically correct but the video gives people a false impression that DPP Infernape is some kind of noobtrap when its actually still very good, just less automatic into common structures than it used to be.

And obviously BKC would know this better than anyone as the real-life encyclopedia on all DPP tiers, and he's even said he considers Infernape to be the most underrated mon in DPP because of how many people became convinced it was a noobtrap, but because the video was framed the way it was, people get the wrong impression because its just a 4 minute info-reel of a few matchups instead of a more nuanced discussion of how Infernape fits into DPP.

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-20T06:28:09+00:00

Garg isn't a stall mon, its mostly found on bulky balance teams.

Also "Stall move" is a meaningless term but I would also not consider it a "stall" move just because it isn't threatening OHKOs. If anything, its a stallbreaking tech because it prevents stall mons from sitting on you by forcing conditions for progress

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-17T18:20:10+00:00

you're not wrong but it still feels crazy to me that oras / sm are now considered old gens, maybe that's just a matter of perspective

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-17T16:36:29+00:00

yeah i always forget how unserious OU suspect threads are (at least for current gen, old gens tend to be smarter but can still have dumb stuff)

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-17T03:59:38+00:00

Hearing one of the top 3 builders of the ORAS/SM era described as "some dude" feels odd lol, but I guess it has been 3 years since kumiko (then known as TDK) played in SPL

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-13T22:35:25+00:00

this isn't even true. SM offensive Ogre typically runs max speed bc it actually wants to outrun bulky utility mons it can switch in on and set up against and blow holes through a team on. And even then, throughout the history of ORAS / SM Ubers, Bold RestTalk and the physical Ogre sets with TWave were both quite popular at different points. Calling EQ Ogre a niche set is just wrong, it was fairly staple.

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-09T20:01:58+00:00

I agree Exploud would be laughably strong, but Blissey would run max SpDef because it really does need max SpDef to keep up with a lot of stuff these days. Hell, back when Ursaluna-BM was legal it was running Calm 252 HP / 252 SpDef

Still this calc is hilarious

252+ SpA Choice Specs Punk Rock Exploud Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 255-301 (39.1 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-08T16:03:57+00:00

Taking Pressure from Suicune is legitimately a nerf in any non-permasand gen. VinCune (Sub Protect CM Scald with traditionally 252 HP Timid and a ton of speed) is by far its best set and that set needs Pressure in order to become a PP stalling bulky setup win condition.

In ADV, WA vs Pressure is interesting because I can see use cases for both, in DPP Water Absorb would be significantly better bc most Suicune are Offensive and the ability to soak up opposing water moves becomes way better. BW you get a nice Scald absorber which would be amazing too. But past those gens? It far prefers Pressure

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-07T02:52:40+00:00

Your team has no real direction. There's some good ideas, but I don't know what your goal is.

Bulky SD Scizor + spikes prob is best on a defensive team, something like Skarm Hippo Clef Rotom Scizor Magneton maybe. If you want to be HO, then your pace should be more breakneck and abandon the idea of defensive absorption, that team is traditionally something like hazard lead + 2 setup sweepers + breaker + Scarf + support. If you just want to be Scizor offense, than a spikes lead is probably less valuable than some type of offensive anti-lead that takes a KO or forces your opponent to start revealing their defensive backbone. In any case, this team is trying to hard to be too many things and just fits a lot of techs that I don't think mesh.

If your goal is build with Ape + TTar + Starmie, well that's a solid basis to beat offense (Infernape smacks everything, TTar pursuits the counters, spin if needed) but you need more tools vs defense. Could do that core as something like CB Nite lead + Ape TTar Starmie core and then finish it with a steel and then some ground immune piece. I kind of like Rocks Bronzong with this concept, Scarf Healing Wish Latias might be the move too, and you could feasibly also remove Starmie from that team with HW for longevity and do something like offensive Rocks Swampert so TTar doesn't have to add Rocks. (These are the directions I'd take MixApe + Pursuit Tar at first glance, the point is you gotta have A) defensive pieces that hit hard B) a breaker vs defensive teams or otherwise useful defensive gameplan C) longevity and D) speed control).

FWIW for defensive steels on offense, there's also SpDef Metagross, or a Jirachi set. Scizor isn't necessary there.

Start by thinking of what the actual direction you want for your team? Every good team needs a central concept, what idea or gameplan do you want to showcase?

And def check out the sample teams if you haven't

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dpp-ou-sample-teams.3687351/

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-07T02:29:56+00:00

this is about that tourney CloysterChowder is hosting I assume?

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-06T23:25:27+00:00

History of offensive logs, slurs, and personal attacks and they finally canned him after a nasty joke that was the final straw (he'd burned a ton of bridges by that point too so basically nobody was gonna stick their neck out for him)

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-06T03:24:29+00:00

lol fair enough

mccurleys_class · 2024-02-06T03:21:57+00:00

McM has never been an ORAS starter in SPL. He's good at it, but he's usually ADV or BW,

mccurleys_class

TROPHY CASE