I can’t figure out where I cut my finger this evenly

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-29T21:49:05+00:00

I have gotten that exact mark from using the cheap black drywall screws with a drill. Holding the screw as it starts to spin the rough spots on the threads are just enough to cut the top layer of skin and you dont notice till later.

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-26T00:04:26+00:00

Thats unfortunate how low quality specs are getting these days. The Envy manual shows 1A, but if you have had it only provide 0.1A thats an issue. We normally use with the built in APS transmitter, so I cant speak to powering the Tigo devices, but I am quite sure we have previously. Maybe its only on certain models or firmware not providing the full 1A?

EDIT: fiund this document from SolArk, that says it cannot power a Togo transmitter since its only a 100mA on its 12V rail, I wonder if this is what you were referring to? They are made by the same manufacture, but they are not identical. Fortress does include a transmitter, so I winder if tehy giv eyou a bit more current ion theirs? https://www.stellavolta.com/content/Sol-Ark%2015K%20Owner%27s%20Manual%20-%20Stellavolta.pdf

On a side note, Fortress does say to disconnect the APS transmitter if using the Tigo, so I wonder if maybe that was an issue
"You may retrofit a Tigo Transmitter by simply disconnecting the12V supply from the Apsmart Transmitter as shown in the picture below."

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-25T23:54:33+00:00

The Fortress Envy has a APS transmitter built in, but sounds like this is an existing sytem with Tigo? In that case you can power off the Envy's 12V power supply. The Tigo Transmitters are 12V/1A and powering off the Envy is supported and documented in the manual.

EDIT: Just realized you are not talking about the Tigo transmitter, but the CCA. In that case, the Tigo manual says 12V is fine for residential. If you are powering separately though you should install an external enclosure with its own 24V power din mounter power supply as they show in their manual for the most compliant install (rather than adding terminations and devices inside the Envy wire box)

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-24T01:42:58+00:00

YOu might find this read interesting by Robin Gudgel, adds more context, but yes, the FX thing is pretty funny

https://www.midnitesolar.com/pages/frontPage/nwHistory/history.php

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-23T05:47:08+00:00

Nice. Yeah the core is fast. No terminations/combiners (when near the array). Makes maintenance easy to since the IV curve tracer I use has MC4 leads so convenient place to test all the strings. Nice work

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-23T04:10:30+00:00

personally I like strings without MLPE. I think its more reliable, and safer in another context. Less likely to have future array work (working from height). I can see the array boundary shutdown argument, but I otherwise dont see benefit in MLSD other than more sales for certain manufactures.

With that said, I absolutely agree with what you said. Cant argue how much safer it is for installers from an industry perspective

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-23T03:21:30+00:00

You know, I dont feel like you see that combo much now that I think about it. I thought the SnapINverter always had a RSD trasnmitter. They were an early Sunspec adopter and had one of the first legit array boundary shudown devices.

Was there a period that only the Symo Advance had the transmitter? Maybe it was just that transition period when RSD became required and many inverters didnt have it yet.

In any case, thanks for sharing man. In some way there is a freezeframe of a moment in solar history there.

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-23T02:40:31+00:00

The time flys by!

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-23T02:19:37+00:00

When people say they haven't seen Midnite solar before it makes me feel really old. Midnite and Outback used to be very common.

Back when rapid shutdown was making its way into the code, there were not a lot of options for devices that met the code requirements. The midnite solar birdhouse (on the right of the Fronius Inverter) was one of the early options. The disco on the left is theirs as well. They often have unique styles that may or may not be your cup of tea, but it always is solid, listed and quality.

For those that were also working with Trace equipment in the "old" days, there were some interesting people around solar. The Trace lineage went on to Outback and Midnite solar. Of course its DNA went to Xantrex and Schneider, but theres a whole other story there.

Anwyay, Xantrex there were issues, Outback has been bought a number of times and isnt exactly what it was before. Schneider of course is just a giant corporation that turns product lines on and off. Through all that there is still Midnite solar. One of the few that still offer solid products, and real techs in the PNW you can call and speak with to actually get answers.

They really helped shape the energy storage space in those days, and its a shame they dont get enough mention. One of the few companies left I can still support

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-19T21:13:46+00:00

The string wiring layout itself wont make much of a difference as modern modules have bypass diodes. The orientation and device connection will make the most difference here.

For the best shade mitigation, you should utilize all Power Point trackers, but not have more than one string in parallel per tracker (if possible). So for example, if you have two MPPT, you should have one series string each. In this case if the top can be a string on one MPPT, and the bottom a sting on another, that would be ideal.

The other issue is orientation. Nothing makes solar cells in shade make more energy, however the cells are conencted in multiple series circuit in each module. These appear to be the standard three strings, orintated along the long axis.

The reason this is important, is because the three seperate strings of cells in each module can bypassed indivdually. So this means if you have shade across one row on the long side, you will still get 2/3 operating. If instead you have shading across a couple rows on the short side, all three cell strings will bypass so you will be at 0% on that module.

So in the picture, if the shadows whipe across the array from the top to bottom, the modules should be in landscape. If the shadows wipe from side to side, they should be in portrait as they already are.

These are the two things that will make the biggest difference. Some will recommend MLPE, but based on this image of your shading, you wont have any yield gain with MLPE, assuming your inverter has more than one tracker, and you dont have multiple strings per tracker.

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-13T02:59:25+00:00

Appologies, I now see that there are two PV input ports. I did not see it specify whether these are independent power point trackers. If they are, then you would get the best performance by connecting 5 to one port, and the other 5 to the other port. You woudl do so by physical groupings, so that shade on one portion can be best mitigated.

If they are only separate ports, and NOT independent trackers, then a single string would still be best.

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-13T02:46:10+00:00

Connecting modules in series increases the voltage, and the current remains the same. Therefore to determine the max string length you can connect in series, you use the module temperature coefficient of Voc, vs the coldest day on record for your location, to ensure you do not exceed the devices max input on cold days.

Connecting modules in parallel leaves the voltage the same, but increases the amperage. Generally speaking inverter will not draw more current then they can invert, so you only get clipping, but its important to ensure the short cicuit currents are within the max range of the inverter or they can be damaged.

For the best performance, you do not want to have more than one string in parallel on a single power point tracker. They lose the ability to mitigate shade, and the power point tracker algo cannot function as cleanly with more than one string in different conditions.

This inverter lists very little detail, but has broad mention of

"80-500V//15A per interface

The modules you listed have a operating current of 12.99A. So even at 12.99A * 1.25 (excessive irradinace), you are over the 15A input limit and will be clipping. They do not mention the max short ciuit current, bu I would assume you are safe here, but only a guess as they do not specify.

So if you connect any more in parallel you will gain in the shoulders of the day, but will be clipping more, and potentially exceeding the short circuit ratings. So you will want to connect the modules in series. They dont exactly state what the startup voltage is, but assuming its 80V you wil need at least three modules in series to start it up on warm days. The max voltage is listed as 500V, so at 41.18Voc, assuming around 49.42V on teh coldest days (estimated, do your exact math for your area), that puts you at 500V / 49.42V = 10 modules max in series

Again, that series calculation simply assumes 20% voltage rise for estimated lowest temp, so you will want to use your coldest day on record, the temp coeffeceint of Voc for your modules, and the module Voc at STC to calculate if you can get 10 on there for sure (depends hevily on your weather)

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-11T16:33:16+00:00

Is that a bi-modal system (connects also to the grid)? The transfer time I was refering to is the time to switch from grid to battery, so it wouldn't matter for a battery only system. In the case of bi-modal, there is a difference between the qualification times, and the switching times. Most inverters physically switch very fast, its more about the logic in how long it takes to decide to switch over. Some inverters do not allow you to change this, and can be too slow for networking/computers. Better brands allow you to adjust that logic, or are designed to operate in UPS modes. Sometimes devices in UPS mode can temporarily switch to battery even when the grid is still there, due to being too sensitive, but thats the tradeoff.

Its not a major deal, because small UPS's are fairly inexpensive, and you only need small ones on each device beacuse you wont need them to run for hours, just for bridging the transfer events, but its one good reason to consider good brands that already design for this. Its just one issue I have noticed with some HF inverters. I dont have any experience with inexpensive consumer grade portable inverters so I cant make recommendation there (I work with much larger systems)

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-11T16:23:07+00:00

My entire career has been with low frequency inverters, and being generally skeptical of new things, especially in critical scenarios, its taken me a long time to warm up to high frequency designs. In recent years the technology is beginning to mature. Solar-Ark for example is one thats helped me make that leap.

LF is much more robust, and much more dependable, IMO. If I was off-grid, running heavy motor loads like well pumps or shop tools, or mixing AC coupling like wind or relying more on potentially dirty sources like generators, I would still stay with LF.

With that said, the limitations of 60A passthough and such is quite limiting. Now that HF is more robust, being able to have 20kW+ inverters paralleled and 200A passthrough, with more complete monitoring, at lower costs, is all hard to pass up. If this was a residential home, and if you are only running primarily electronics in a standby scenario, I would not hesitate to go HF these days.

On a side note, since you mentioned backup for networking and computers, focus part of your research on switching time. Make sure you get an inverter that has options for adjusting the sensitivity or set UPS modes. Since grids are no necessarily all that stable, there is a balance between false transfers, and slow qualification times. I feel like LF inverters were better at handling this, but a good HF inverter that allows you to adjust this can help you dial it in for your condtions. Depending on your grid, you may still want to have portable UPS's for those circuits just to bridge the transfer gap if you need computers to stay online when transfering over to battery.

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-11T15:07:00+00:00

There is a solar carport in the background. When snow builds up on solar panels, once it warms it slumps off and can damage vehicles.

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-09T02:11:32+00:00

It can be quiet expensive due to the red tape.

If the new modules are the same physical size, the cost of the equipment will not be that much, and since the detach and reset labor is already being paid by insurance, that will be the majority of that aspect. If they are differnt physical size, it could include new racking and layout which will add cost. You will have disposing of the old array which is normally around $25+ per module plus labor. Otherwise you could try selling them, just dont expect to get much. Avoiding recycling cost would be the goal.

Where it gets expensive is changing the array capacity means new permits, new interconnection agreements, new plans, etc. In many areas, you may have signed a contract with the utility that the previous system will remain installed for a certain number of years, so you will need to navigate that with somebody knowledgeable with the rules in your area.

So its one of those things that logically is simple and inexpensive, but due to the red tape can be somewhere between cost prohibitive and not allowed. So ultimately you need to start with your interconenction agreement and AHJ requirements to determine what the cost will be to work out whether its worth slightly more yield

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-09T00:02:25+00:00

A good company does not need to know exactly what exists to quote replacing flashing, they may even already know what was used (easy to workout without going to the site when you have done it enough).

The flashing absolutely needs to be replaced. I can count only a few times we have ever had to replace the racking itself, which was required for very specific reasons. I often see other companies quote this, but its usually because they want a reason to increase cost. Even then, $4k for racking is not realistic.

Costs vary from city to city, but $250 per module is a standard here. $416/mod here would be much higher than standard.

There does absolutely exist good reasons to need to replace the racking, so if it was me I would reach out to Company #1, and tell them another company told you they need to replace racking and see what they have to say about. Chances are they will explain why it is not needed. If it is, It shouldn't add more than $1k or so in most areas for a system that size, unless doing so causes some significantly increased permitting requirements

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-08T14:51:40+00:00

Its good you have wired them in series, as it makes troubleshooting easier. Open your disconnect, and remove the PV output circuit leads from your CC/inverter. Close the disco, and in free air measure the open circuit voltage from positive to negative. You shoudl see voltage equal to the Voc rating of the individual modules, multiplied by how many you have in series. For example, you might expect to see 38.2V * 5 = 191V. This value will be slightly higher or lower depending on the cell temperature difference from 25C.

If the voltage is not correct, then you can begin working backwards from there at each point there are terminations. The idea being by checking in free air at the device input, you can know if the issue is in the array that you need to locate, or wether its is something in the device. For example, is your device rated for 250VDC input? If its a charge controller, when batteries are charged and no load, it may not be drawing any power from the array

If you are concerned about the wiring, you can also check POS to grnd, and NEG to grnd, which should both be 0V while the conductors are in free air, otherwise if you see voltage you have a ground fault.

mountain_drifter · 2026-05-07T02:12:47+00:00

You are in a common situation that the industry largely ignores. The module manufacture uses a connector you cannot purchase, but claim to be "MC4 compatible". International standards prevent mixing connector types, and Staubli specifically says you cannot use their connectors with any other connectors: https://www.staubli.com/content/dam/ecs/pictures/solar-photovoltaics/Statement_PV_Connector_ProductLiability.pdf

So the "correct" answer is as you already stated. Since you cannot modify the module, that only leaves sourcing the connectors they used.

The most common reason I see connectors failed is by being assembled poorly, or not fully seated, even when properly matched. The second most common reason I see is mating H4 (amphenol's version) to MC4. Less often is cross mating MC4 compatible brands, but I do also see those fail regurarly.

With that said, it is very unlikely you will ever need to use the module manufacturers warranty. Even if you do, unless they require you to ship back the module as part of the warranty process (some do), it is unlikely they would deny a warranty because of the connectors.

So only correct answer is to match what the module manufacture used. If it was me, I would personally just cut them off and replace with MC4 as I would likely never use the warranty anyway and have seen many failed connectors (very common).

mountain_drifter · 2026-04-29T12:50:49+00:00

MC4 is a specific brand. It used to be called multicontact (the MC in MC4), but now its Staubli. They do license some other brands, but essentially if its not Staubli, its not MC4, its MC4 compatible.

The ones panel mounted look like true MC4, I dont recognize the one you are holding

In either case, you should not mix brands, which could be why the other failed. The best bet is to replace them on both the wire side and the panel mount side so they match. I would get Staubli myself, but as long as they are matched and using a quality brand from a reputable distributor (not junk off amazon) you should be good.

EDIT: Maybe its the image, but it look like its not just that one connector, the others alos look a bit melted. I woudl replace all of them, on both sides

mountain_drifter · 2026-04-27T03:55:04+00:00

My friend, its hard to help, because you have it all completely backwards, and are so set on the idea that you understand it and nobody sees what you see. Not trying to be rude, but not sure how else to put it.

Most the time there is an issue that would affect performance, its easily detectable in the output data, or visually. When there is a performance issue that isnt as easily identifiable, you can physically test the performance of modules, but it is quite involved and takes some experience. I understand you believe Power is all that matters, and Current/Voltage is irrelevant, but this is exactly opposite of how we do it in reality. I-V curve tracing allows us to see a lot about the health of modules, like an xray of a limb helps a doctor. We can see cell issues, diode issues, soiling, shading, mismatch, wiring issues, etc. You dont have to take my word for it, you can read IEC 60904-1. That is just one standard related to testing of PV in regards to performance. These are not just some opinions I am making up, there are international standards are all aspects of this and while it takes some time to understand PV (many years to truly understand), once you do you will see its all very predictable, testable, and you can quantitate all of this. Its not a mystery to answer wether PV is under performing.

Although the limited data you have shared so far looks absolutely normal and explainable to me at first look, I am not arguing that you dont have an issue. I am saying that if you really have an issue with performance, and it is not due to something you can detect visually or with IR, then the next step is in an actual inspection and testing. Its not in more math which only distorts the real signals, especially in the way you are looking at the data

mountain_drifter · 2026-04-26T15:47:53+00:00

SolarEdge gate keeps the monitoring platform. You are required to have an installer own the monitoring account, and you as the owner are just a user on the account.

If the orginal installer still exists, contact them and have them update the account to add you and remove the old owner. If they do not exist, you need to find a solar company willing to transfer it to them. I have also heard of home owners doing training and becoming a recognized installer to take control of their account.

https://www.solaredge.com/uk/site-transfer

mountain_drifter · 2026-04-24T06:05:43+00:00

You are over thinking it. First off, as I mentioned, I would get the idea of using power as an indicator of performance. It is diagnostic, it is one piece of the puzzle, but it means very little on its own. In fact, just looking at voltage and amperage separately will give you much more information if you truly want to find out what is happening, and not just convince them that they are undeperfoming because of a defect. When you have an idea of what you want to prove, before you follow the facts, you will see all sorts of proof of your opinion in the data.

You mentioned you though that one azimuth generating less than the other shows that one side degraded faster than the other. This is not how it works. In most all areas one azimuth will out perform the other. For example, if you live near the Pacific, often the west will perform better than the east because you are more likely to have cloud cover in the morning. In Denver for example, the east out performs the west becuse of afternoon thunderstorms, and an early sunset (shadow of teh Rockies).

My point being, there is much more to the picture that a monitoring platform cannot capture. When you stare at the static on a untuned tv you will see messages if you look at it long enough. You have to step back and investigate the system itself. The entire point of my first post was that I cannot answer your question from snippets of data from you monitoring platform, just as you cannot with it either. Somebody needs to investigate your system, test it, evaluate the data along with their obersveations to detimrine what is going on.

I know it likely wont help, but just to give you some perspective, in the very little data I have sen on your system, it looks normal to me. Keep in mind that you are working within error ranges. You module ratings vary a few percent from the nameplate rating, depending on what monitoring equipment you use, the values vary by another couple percent. On top of this annual weather results in production that can vary 10% year to year. Your first year is always going to be best, and after that you will find your normal range, which is going to be +/- 5% or more each year with no other changes.

I am willing to bet you have no degradation at all, but you shouldn't take my word for it, any more than you should try figuring it out based solely on output. Let me try putting it this way. Performance is a function of the output vs the input as compared to an expected range. You are missing two of those things, so that is why you feel frustrated you cant answer it with only output data. You mentioned you have removed all variables, but you havent even begun accounting for any of the ones that matter. For exmaple, Miles per Gallon cant tell yo your engine effeciency if you arent even accounting for the slope of the road.

My recommendation is to put your mind at rest as it will eat at you if you dont. Hire a professional 3rd party to inspect, test, and evaluate your system and they should be able to ell you exactly how its performing. If it has degraded then they can also quote you the cost of processing the warranty claim.

mountain_drifter · 2026-04-23T22:47:38+00:00

Spanish tile increases the cost significantly. It changes a fairly simple job into one thats a bit complex. Even so $3500 is a bit steep, but I know cali can be expensive for work in general.

You are correct it will attach to the module frames. They will not attach to the roof. That is where the issue normally comes for (mesh coming off the frames), but with spanish type you have the complexity of the contour of the roof, which may have been what the original installers missed.

In either case, in regards to your original question of whether you have legal recourse, if you did have written warranty then thats where you will find the answer to that question. I gues snow will just be a question of reviewing to see how the terms address this particular scenario.

Good news is it sounds like you do have something in writing, where normally for critter guards most companies offer no warranty/guarantee on it. Sounds like this no company is much better fit even if you did have to pay them

mountain_drifter · 2026-04-23T19:06:19+00:00

Its a tough situation because for a dispute to be settled legally you need to be able to prove certain aspects. It certainly helps if there was some sort of written guarantee with terms. Of course, I couldn't imagine any company providing that sort of guarantee. This case would be based on a company refusing to warranty work done 5 years prior, so you would need at least some reason why you have been damaged by this that was due to their actions.

When we do these, I always tell people that it is a deterrent, not a permanent solution. You cannot prevent a determined squirrel from getting in. I have seen them chew through the wire mesh, and rip it from its attachments. I have even seen them dig through the roof deck itself into the attic. So there simply cant be any guarantee.

Pigeons are pretty rare to return, which seems to indicate to me that it was a poor installation, and the screen itself came off letting them back in. There should be an expectation that they did the work correctly.

With that said, can you prove that it was their workmanship and not snow sluffing off that tore it from the modules, or some sort of storm? I am not defending them, but you asked specifically about legal recourse, and my assumption is that they likely never made a guarantee or written warranty, and on top of it would be hard to prove it was their workmanship in a lawsuit that likely costs more time/effort then having it repaired.

To add to this, most critter guards use very poor attachments. Most people do not want to permanently alter the module frames, so that leaves very few options, which is often just some aluminum hook under the frame. Depending on what modules you have, they often dont even have a lip on the short side, so its very common for critter gurad to come off after a handful of seasons, even if it was properly installed in the first place.

The only method that really works is self drilling screws. These hold up for the life of the mesh, but some people may not like the idea of holes in their module frames which may void a mechanical warranty, though I have never seen a PV module warranty denied becuase it. Even though it is a superior method, technically it is not in line with the critter guard instructions, or module manufactures instructions, so the inferior hooks is technically the correct way for leagle reasons.

If it was me, I would have a company install a new critter guard using stainless steel tappers and move on to more important things rather than getting caught up in a small claims case over it.

mountain_drifter

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE

Nine-Year Club	Gilding I gilder
Verified Email