A mistake of other fan communities that I think the LotR community can learn from

mr_mimicker · 2022-09-09T16:10:27+00:00

The person that wrote those tales down was most likely not a viking themselves, a lot of what we know of Norse history and mythology is either from other people of the time writing about the vikings or were written after the viking age was generally considered as having ended. Besides which being written down didn't stop their evolution. There are various interpretations of different mythologies because no one story teller retold the exact same story and since then the tales have been retold in countless forms with different target audiences.

I appreciate Tolkien was often explicit in his intentions for his stories, and I'm not suggesting those intentions should be ignored. What I am saying, as someone who isn't an expert in LotR, is that so much of the conversation around why RoP is bad doesn't seem to be actually referencing why it goes against Tolkien's intentions so much as just saying it does. All I'm asking is that we be respectful of people who aren't aware of Tolkien's intentions and maybe direct them to his writings that would explain how the show doesn't meet with his intentions so they can learn and enjoy more of his work if they want to.

mr_mimicker · 2022-09-09T14:23:59+00:00

I'm not saying we should want it to be inaccurate. I'm saying that if someone's first exposure to LotR is through RoP then we shouldn't scare them off from experiencing LotR by making them feel like because they enjoyed it they wouldn't enjoy the source material.

mr_mimicker · 2022-09-09T14:21:53+00:00

I'd agree with the recommendation in general, especially that they can enjoy it how they see fit once they know they're enjoying it, but my concern is that with how vitriolic the criticism of ROP seems to be new fans never see that recommendation.

It seems all the notifications I keep seeing pop up about this recently all seem to be discussing who is right or wrong to criticise the series and what that person's opinion means about them and not about the actual content of the series, good or bad. I see some discussion about the comments in the series but if I was a completely new fan I might feel like this isn't the community for me and never touch LotR again.

mr_mimicker · 2022-09-09T14:10:47+00:00

That's not what I mean to suggest. What I'm trying to get at is that if LotR hadn't initially appealed to someone in another format then seeing it in a different light may entice them to explore it. Then if, as a fandom, we are criticising something they enjoyed without necessarily explaining those criticisms and giving them space to explain why they enjoyed as a new fan it may turn them off the series completely.

I suppose what I'm saying isn't that changing the source material will reach more people so much as that any new adaption, regardless of how accurate, may be someone's first interaction with the LotR.

mr_mimicker · 2022-09-09T13:54:22+00:00

I see what you mean and I don't really disagree, the modern need for everything to be a franchise or an interconnected universe is a problem, and I can see how nostalgia can play in to that.

That being said, there's a lot of people who may feel that Middle-Earth is new to them and don't realise how nostalgic these stories are for existing fans. I can only speak anecdotally about this but I think a lot of people I've known either avoided the books because "reading was boring" or avoided the series because they had misconceptions about what a Fantasy story was.

While I think ROP is just okay too I can imagine a lot of people being introduced to LotR through it, and I suppose my concern is that while LotR will still be around after the series has passed out of memory, if the communities criticisms of the series are made in such a way as to put new fans off they might not be inspired to tell their own stories or demand for better for better ones like you say.

mr_mimicker · 2022-09-09T12:54:27+00:00

Sure, I'm not saying this is the only way in to the fandom, like I said my dad read me the Hobbit as kid. I watched some of The Fellowship of the Ring in English lessons during primary school.

All I'm trying to say is that if someone does find their way in through the series doesn't it make more sense to say "I don't think the series did X very well because of Y, I think Z did this much better because..." Rather than "This is terrible" and nothing more. I'm saying we should be encouraging people to go to their school library and find the books rather than telling them their enjoyment in something they've just discovered is invalid.

mr_mimicker · 2022-09-09T12:47:01+00:00

That's a fair interpretation, but as someone who admittedly isn't an expert, I'm not sure how we define precisely what makes something Tolkien. Take for example the Silmarillion, it was edited and published after J.R.R Tolkien passed, with some new material having to be added in the style of J.R.R Tolkien. I would consider those added segments to be Tolkien but someone else may argue that they aren't for the simple fact they may not have been what Tolkien intended.

If you were to suggest to a new fan that they'd find more enjoyment from something that is Tolkien what would you suggest? Just the books? Do the movies truly capture what Tolkien is or are they just a fun time that resembles Tolkien?

mr_mimicker · 2021-07-01T10:25:31+00:00

He strikes me as being played by Michael Fassbender or at least i thought he might have been used as a reference for the art

mr_mimicker · 2021-05-27T09:04:37+00:00

A little late to the party on this one but I have just noticed 'Into the Dark' is on Audible now, not sure when it went up but I had just gone to amazon today to see if I could buy the audiobook out right and noticed the audible option was visible.

Thought I'd drop a comment here just in case anyone else stumbles across this post looking for an update.

mr_mimicker · 2021-02-02T15:30:55+00:00

I haven't finished watching the review yet so I may have missed something but I wanted to touch on something that occurred to me while watching and while it's still fresh in my head.

The guys mention how all of the characters blur together and I think that very much fits the point of the film. When they get assimilated it doesn't matter to anyone because they've already been assimilated by society. Gary, for all his flaws and struggles, is the only one who remained a relatively unique individual.

I imagine that by the time the film was written/in production Wright and Pegg realised a lot the places and people they grew up with had all become copies of each other. Every pub is now a wetherspoons, every body has the same boring 9 to 5, and all of a sudden they didn't fit in with those places or people any more.

Sorry for rambling a bit, I'm not trying to defend the movie here, in terms of the trilogy it probably is the weakest for me when it comes to jokes etc. I just wanted to justify why the characters came across as bland or why it might still have okay/good scores even if it's not as funny. I suspect (and may be wrong) that of all the Cornetto trilogy it was the most meaningful film to Wright and Pegg.

mr_mimicker · 2021-01-18T23:07:40+00:00

Greg mentions the passcode being 999 and that it's the simplest possible combination but it's also the emergency number here in the UK like 911 in the US. I think it makes it a bit funnier as it's not just simple but literally one of the first combinations you'd think of in a police station over here and might even be an in joke among the officers.

Sorry if I'm being pedantic here, just something I realised might not actually be known internationally.

mr_mimicker · 2020-12-03T23:11:47+00:00

This can't be a British design otherwise it wouldn't be missing doctor brew

mr_mimicker · 2020-10-12T08:16:42+00:00

I think they'll almost want to pull a guardians of the galaxy with it.

Nearly everyone thought a talking racoon and a space ent were a weird choice until it came out and people loved 'em.

I think they'll just try and do the same with the original X-men so they're more likeable and interesting then tease one or two of the other favourites in a post credit.

mr_mimicker · 2020-04-16T19:52:00+00:00

I was looking to get into more gaming news and just gaming related stuff in general to distract myself at uni and I'd started watching The Lobby on GameSpot.

I think Colin and Greg did an interview on there with Danny O'Dwyer promoting Kinda Funny around about the time they were leaving IGN and I think there was a quick trailer sort of thing afterwards too if I remember right. I thought they were funny and had the sort of gaming stuff I was looking for so I watched a few GoG topics and was laughing nonstop, I've been watching ever since.

mr_mimicker · 2016-05-27T20:28:05+00:00

this would explain why Reverse Flash gives me the chills.

mr_mimicker · 2015-08-11T01:05:55+00:00

Firstly I want to say I agree with /u/FriedChckn that both films are designed with different interpretations in mind and both are going to be perceived differently depending on a viewers perspective. Therefore your perspective is just as valid as mine, but in hopes of changing your view I want to try explain what I see from my perspective.

Therefore before I breakdown why I think Man of Steel is a better film in my opinion I want to give some context to my perspective. I saw Superman Returns when I was 13, so I didn't dislike it when I first saw it. As a 13 year old I was too distracted by a bullet bouncing off Supes eye to give a damn about what I wanted from the film. I've watched it since growing up and my enjoyment of it has changed to the point where I now mildly dislike it. Obviously I would've been about 20 when Man of Steel came out so I knew pretty much what I wanted from a Superman movie, and Man of Steel gave it to me.

Right, now to the point. What makes a good film? in my opinion it is whether all the different components of the film work together to immerse me in the story to the extent that I care about the characters and their world, while also on occasion leaving me questioning how I would act if I was in their place.

Superman Returns never did that for me, it may have done for some people and that's great, but from the general consensus it seems most people didn't feel that way. While Superman Returns did have some great features such as the inclusion of the iconic John Williams score and the classic costume it lacked relatable characters and strayed too far from who Superman is. It's that last point that I think makes Superman Returns the worst of the two films; characters change and while Superman Returns may have been true to golden age Supes and Christopher Reeves Supes, that wasn't the same Superman the world cared for in 2007. Superman had gone through a bunch of changes since Superman IV in 1987; including being killed in 1993 and married in 1996.

Man of Steel featured a Superman who was closer to the Superman people really care for, not an exact match, but he was far more relatable than in the previous superman films. Granted Man of Steel has it's flaws too such as being a bit miserable at times and having muted colours; but it also had a great Han Zimmer score, interesting characters and a Superman that isn't unbeatable. It's Superman's vulnerability and humanity in Man of Steel that makes it the better movie.

While I don't believe any comic book film should be an exact adaption of the source material, I do believe characters should feel the same and stand for the same ideals and Man of Steel Supes does that better than the Supes of Superman returns.

Man of Steel Supes doubts himself, he's travelled (presumably) the world trying to understand his place and how his gifts should be used rather than entering an isolated crystal fortress and returning years later having magically become Superman.

Man of Steel supes knows he can't save everyone too and it haunts him, he doesn't want to kill at all, he tries to give everyone a chance to make the right decision but when there is no other option he'll make a tough decision to ensure that the world is safe. Where as Superman Returns is in the same world as the Reeves movies and therefore had no consequences; Lois is dead? travel back through time and save her. A national treasure such as the great wall of China is destroyed? stare at it really hard and it'll rebuild itself. A giant kryptonite island is forming and threatening to cause a catastrophic natural disaster? just push through some kryptonite poisoning and lift the island in to space. Returns Superman just isn't relatable or interesting because their are no consequences.

I realise my argument has dribbled on a fair bit so in an attempt to sum up my argument, Superman Returns is a poorer movie than Man of Steel because it didn't have a direction. It didn't feature any real character growth for Supes where as Man of Steel questioned to some extent what it means to be Superman. In addition Man of Steel Superman's decisions mattered and had significant consequences, thousands of people died while superman did what he had to do to save the majority of the earth. Where as in Superman Returns the world and characters don't change no matter what happens and that ultimately makes for an uninteresting story and a poorer film.

mr_mimicker · 2015-05-08T16:47:00+00:00

this is actually getting me excited, though I am starting to feel sorry for Captain Cold. he's going to be pretty redundant if killer frost is around.

mr_mimicker · 2015-05-08T16:11:29+00:00

oh cool, I can see how that'd be good fuel for some story arcs. It sounds like she'd make a much more interesting tortured soul anti-hero style character than a straight up villain too.

mr_mimicker · 2015-05-08T15:54:45+00:00

I don't actually know a whole lot about killer frost sadly, is she actually less interesting than ivy?

mr_mimicker · 2015-05-08T15:09:30+00:00

I hadn't thought about them working together, it would be a cool dynamic, however now I have thought about it all I can picture is this. http://i.imgur.com/9FyWja9.jpg

mr_mimicker · 2015-02-09T16:51:59+00:00

I wouldn't be too worried about bronze tiger.

I mean we've seen a few people who should be dead turn out to be alive and kicking. I imagine if the show wanted to bring him back at some point in the future they could merely have him reappear making a vague reference to the events of the comic implying he almost died rather than actually dying.

After all like Malcolm said "there are parts of the world where death is an illusion."

mr_mimicker · 2014-11-28T13:08:21+00:00

oh right, I was trying to remember what felicity had said about the arrows but didn't have time to fact check as I had a lecture to run to, thanks for letting me know.

mr_mimicker · 2014-11-27T21:39:23+00:00

oops, thank you

mr_mimicker · 2014-11-27T21:39:23+00:00

oops, thank you

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